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Diabetes advice question ...

If you agree with the question vote YES if not vote NO


  • Total voters
    84
I must admit I can't see a strong need for DAFNE other than to explain diabetes in a broad sense to newcomers. My excellent DN prescribed insulin when tablets finally failed. She just gave me Basal for a few weeks and asked for my meter readings. We looked at them and we agreed to add Bolus. She gave me a Roche carb-counting leaflet and said to look at the web as well. I've been doing it for a year with no hypos and an HBa1C of 6.3%. Why would I have needed a course at great expense to the NHS instead of this simple but adequate surgery advice and support?

If you have not been on an educational course, whether it be DAFNE or any other local one, you cant say there is no need.

It drastically improved my knowledge but also gave me the tools to be able to evolve my diabetes management to my own personal needs...........

its not just leaflet being handed out, its the chance to work with other diabetics and see how they do it and how they do it differently...

you mentioned tablets, which means you must be a insulin dependent type 2.......yeah.........

if so, that explains why you wouldn't benefit from such a course as it geared towards type 1
 
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If you have not been on an educational course, whether it be DAFNE or any other local one, you cant say there is no need.

It drastically improved my knowledge but also gave me the tools to be able to evolve my diabetes management to my own personal needs...........

its not just leaflet being handed out, its the chance to work with other diabetics and see how they do it and how they do it differently...

you mentioned tablets, which means you must be a insulin dependent type 2.......yeah.........

if so, that explains why you wouldn't benefit from such a course as it geared towards type 1

That's not fair! Daibell is a type 1.5 diabetic who is on a basal and bolus insulin regime,his opinion is very valid.
 


That's not fair! Daibell is a type 1.5 diabetic who is on a basal and bolus insulin regime,his opinion is very valid.[/quote]


I didn't say it wasn't valid, this seems to keep happening to me a lot on this forum.........why is that.....?

I asked the question about type, not make a statement.....

if type 1.5, which is in my opinion still type 1, DAFNE would not be suitable as the patients insulin production still exists/is unpredictable......

I am just backing the educational corner for type 1s, its well worth the money, in my opinion, which is also very valid......:)
 
Being ill and unable to eat means you will be producing more ketones than usual, and in order to process ketones you need insulin.

You don't need insulin to process ketones. If you are a T1 diabetic, you need insulin to stop ketone production (which can ultimately lead to ketoacidosis). Insulin is like a brake on ketone production.
 
You don't need insulin to process ketones. If you are a T1 diabetic, you need insulin to stop ketone production (which can ultimately lead to ketoacidosis). Insulin is like a brake on ketone production.

ketones are still produced and used by the brain amongst other things just in small doses........thry are fuel for the body during sleep/fasting........

When using sick day rules with slightly higher blood sugar and higher levels of ketones you are told to give 10 or 20% of your total daily dose on top of your bolus for any food you can eat.........

so you do need insulin to process the ketones..........is process the wrong word maybe............?

insulin lets glucose in to cells, as it does with ketones......

your right in that insulin, which allows the excess glucose to pass into the cells, will lower blood glucose and so stop the need for ketone production, but what about the ketones already in the blood stream....
 
so you do need insulin to process the ketones..........is process the wrong word maybe............?

insulin lets glucose in to cells, as it does with ketones......

your right in that insulin, which allows the excess glucose to pass into the cells, will lower blood glucose and so stop the need for ketone production, but what about the ketones already in the blood stream....

No. Insulin regulates ketone production. When insulin levels are high then ketone production is low.

Ketones can be burned directly by your muscles and your brain without the need for insulin. In the early stages of ketosis then your muscles burn ketones as a fuel (in order to spare protein). In particular, your heart prefers ketones as fuel, and will burn them in preference to glucose.

In prolonged ketosis ("fat adaption") your brain switches to ketones as its primary fuel source (and the muscles take less).

So the answer is that, unless you are producing them, ketones in your blood don't hang around for long as they are either used as fuel or excreted in urine.
 
when I had the flu I felt awful and couldn't eat properly for days...............my bg was OK, but ketones were up................so I was taking 20% of my daily dose, which for me was about 15 units, every 2 hours.......

the ketones gradually dissipated, but my bg stayed the same...........

why?

what happened to that insulin?
 
I understood that if eating carbs and having enough insulin your body works off that. If very low carb, your body only then produces ketones as a fuel source, which, if blood levels good, AND your body has enough insulin ok. Problem with ketones is when ill or lacking enough insulin (dk).
In your case, ill, and not eating regular and not reciving your usual bolus your body produced ketones. illness does do funny things to us diabetics.


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No. Insulin regulates ketone production. When insulin levels are high then ketone production is low.

Ketones can be burned directly by your muscles and your brain without the need for insulin. In the early stages of ketosis then your muscles burn ketones as a fuel (in order to spare protein). In particular, your heart prefers ketones as fuel, and will burn them in preference to glucose.

In prolonged ketosis ("fat adaption") your brain switches to ketones as its primary fuel source (and the muscles take less).

So the answer is that, unless you are producing them, ketones in your blood don't hang around for long as they are either used as fuel or excreted in urine.

this is useful by the way......i think i understand.....:)
 
When I went to my first meeting with the nurse, she took me through the booklet for T2 diabetes. When we got to the eatwell plate, where it advised number of portions for protein, fruit , carbs etc., she added a word of caution on the number of portions of carbs per day. She also recommended new potatoes not old potatoes and wholegrain bread, pasta and rice as opposed to white. I hadn't visited this site at the time but I now realise that she was perhaps trying to put forward the low carb message when she cautioned against the 9-15 portions of carbohydrate per day.
 
When first diagnosed I was not told about the role of carbs at all. So my thoughts were a nice slice of bread was great because the 'of which sugars was low'. It wasn't until I joined here that I learnt the role of carbs.
I was EXACTLY the same, id be like yeah give me a whole.plate of rice and curry because i looked at the fact there wasnt much sugar on the information. Well i wondered for quite some time why i couldnt get my readings right.
 
Hi. I have been type 2 for over 7 years now and I don't feel that I was supported very well by my GP. Not really a criticism because GPs are not necessarily experts in every field.
I have now been referred to the local diabetic clinic and now this is the first time that am starting to understand things like carbs, etc.


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WRONG!! The info about counting carbs has been known for ever!!! I was diagnosed in 1965 and was taught to count carbs from day 1. I was in hospital for 2 weeks learning how to do it all and it's stood me in good stead ever since. I think it's criminal that they stopped teaching this at some point - not sure when that was - but it has made a lot of people very much worse off and has cost the NHS £££££s…..

How do you 'count carbs'?


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At T1 diagnosis in 1994 the advice I was given was well-meaning but terrible. Basal/bolus had just come in but they threw the baby out with the bathwater. They were overjoyed to tell me I would not need to count exchanges. I was to follow a normal "healthy diet" (TM) and deny myself almost nothing, just cut back a little on the sweets - you know, just a healthy diet. They told me nothing about carbs and I was totally on my own as to how to calculate bolus doses - "trial and error". Maybe I fell between two stools into the worst possible world between carb exchanges and bolus carb counting?

I ended up devising my own systems, first counting total calories, then after chronic failure of that, finding out myself about carb counting.

DAFNE in my opinion is superb, but the DAFNE method should be taught at diagnosis. OK the NHS don't have a time machine, they couldn't travel back to 1994. It has taken about 5 years to get on DAFNE, maybe because I'm a contract worker and I can't take a week off easily. Frankly I didn't learn much about carb counting that I hadn't already figured out. DAFNE is an OK dose regime but it's not pure genius. What is pure genius about DAFNE is putting 8 diabetics with a hundred years of experience in one room to learn from each other for a week. The clinical staff just stand back and watch the magic, it's incredible. So I think diabetics should get the basic dose mechanics taught at diagnosis, then a follow up peer group session every 5-10 years. Currently DAFNE is fulfilling both of those functions, but it could be split.

I agree with the person who said that basal/bolus frequently degenerates into "eat whatever the hell you want, just dose for it". Whose interests are served by getting us to use less insulin? Notice that most of the treatment technology, historically nearly all of it, was developed by firms whose profit centre is insulin sales. All the delivery delivery systems are loss leaders for selling insulin, always have been. Why can I no longer get a pen calibrated in half units?

Advice to newly diagnosed diabetics should be simple: "You have a disease, diabetes, which makes you carbohydrate-intolerant. That's its definition. Carbohydrates are toxic to you, and quickly or slowly, carbohydrates will kill you. We have a drug, synthetic insulin, that can be used to mitigate the harmful effects, but it is imprecise at best, harmful at worse."

I wish I had been given that harsh but realistic advice at diagnosis, instead of HCPs going out of their way to reassure me everything would continue as normal and I wouldn't need to change anything. Less management of my "state of mind" and a few more facts, please!

So, er, that's a Yes then. :-)
 
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