I suppose it'a a step in the right direction

[zazoopits]

I was diagnosed in Jan as type two I have done the lchf style of eating since then. I'm not saying I count the carbs but compared to my diet before, this is a complete about-turn. I agree that everyone should decide what diet is best for them, I can only say for the first time in years, my BMI is in the healthy range. I really feel this is a way of life not a diet anymore. Best wishes to all on finding out the best way forward for you. X


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[catherinecherub]

hi Catherine,
Of corse I don't think LCHF or low carb moderate fat is the only way to lose weight, as I indeed have been careful to state in several threads to which I have responded. However, what is the point in taking metformin or whatever medicine you have prescribed to lower bs, then eating carbs with every meal (as per the dn at our hospital) which then negate the effect for some of us. My bs, for example, goes from between 5.5-6.5 into double figures if I eat rice, pasta or bread. Please don't tell me that I have to eat carbs as a source of energy, as per the NHS advice, as there is plenty of research which has been verified, to show that fat can be used as an alternative source of energy. I believe that @Totto has a list of research, I can ask her for it, if you want to read it. If I had a pound for every member who has followed the appalling medical advice which they have been given and found that they couldn't have an operation because their blood sugar is too high, I'd be a rich woman. I have tried eating a low fat diet, lost 2 stone and then put it back on and some more. LCHF reduces weight, bs and for some members even cholestrol. When I have my own cholestrol results back, then I will be able to say what the impact is on that as well as my halved bs in less than 3 months and my current 2 stone 4lb weight loss. There is a lot of variety on a LCHF diet and I have no intention of going back to low fat. Besides, the fat has to be substituted with something to make it more palatable and that is usually sugar. I picked up a variety of full fat and low fat yoghurt. All of them had over 10% added sugar.
It is interesting that every time I have asked why I should eat something which causes my bs to rise, when as a diabetic I am trying to lower my bs using medication that I have been treated to frosty silence. Why not provide an answer? In my profession, if I am asked a question by either a student or a parent where I don't know the answer, then I always say " that's a good question. I don't know but I'll find out and get back to you." And I do. I do realise that not everyone had the confidence to do this but if you are going to give advice to people then it's not unreasonable to expect them to answer questions or go away and find the answers. To date, neither the dn at the surgery or the hospital or 2 of the docs at my surgery has responded to my question. The uk diabetes website which is used for advice by many health care professionals advocates that people make cakes with half the sugar. Why? Strikes me that they've given up on people and are just going for damage limitation.

Thanks for the reply.
Why would I tell you that you have to eat carbs as a source of energy? I am not one of those people on the forum who tells others what they should be eating or not eating. I like people to find their own eating plan that works for them rather than being expected to conform to what other people think is right for everybody.

As for the low fat/high fat debate I do not subscribe to it. I eat fats in moderation, mostly polyunsaturated and monounsaturated and I think it is up to the individual to decide what works best for them.

I don't need anybody's research about anything as I do my own and make my decisions as to what I believe and do not believe. Some people only search for articles that validate their strong beliefs.

As to the appalling medical advice you speak of, it is not true for everybody. We are, as forum members, a small proportion of the people with Type2 diabetes., we are proactive, not everyone is. I belong to a practice that gives the advice that I received at diagnosis. They also follow up to make sure that it is working and I know from mine other people's experiences at my practice that they do teach about the affect of carbohydrates on a person with diabetes. Very often I will see people with Type2 diabetes in the waiting area snacking on rubbish, moaning about their blood sugar levels whilst acknowledging that they leave their management to their G.P. You have to take ownership,, ask questions, do some research if you want to get on top of it. I suspect that the majority do not.

I think some people forget that General Practitioners are not specialists. The growth in Type2 diabetes is astronomical and they are ill equipped to deal with it. Their patient list is growing by the day and everyone wants a cure or expensive treatment for all manner of things. Time wasters and missed appointments cause more problems and although they deal with 90% of the NHS workload, they only get under 9% of the funding. General practice is in crisis and yet people do not seem to understand this. I sometimes think that some people are of the opinion that a G.P. sits twiddling his thumbs waiting for patients.
An article in Pulse today shows that some G.P. surgeries may have to close because of funding changes.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-pr...nd-chief-admits/20006822.article#.U4cqFigx8lI

University students may not be able to see a G.P. because of funding. Practices in large student populations warn that they are considering closing their lists due to underfunding.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-pr...rder-to-survive/20006824.article#.U4cq0Cgx8lI
The NHS is in crisis and things are getting worse.

Could you give me an answer to my last paragraph about the supposed intolerance to carbs? The subject intrigues me.

 

[Scandichic]

Hi Catherine,

I am confused by aspects of both of your responses to me.In your first post addressed to me on this thread, you wrote:

"Do you really think that only people who follow a LC/HF diet are able to lose weight?
Have you ever thought that there are people on the forum who do not follow you and yet have lost the weight that they needed to?"

Then you go on to write in your second post:
" I am not one of those people on the forum who tells others what they should be eating or not eating. I like people to find their own eating plan that works for them rather than being expected to conform to what other people think is right for everybody."

Surely you have just contradicted yourself?
You seem under the misguided impression that I tell people to only eat LCHF when this is not the case. If you have read any of my posts to new members then you will know that I have always stated that there is more than one approach but I prefer LCHF because it's the only one where the science for it is available to read, it made sense and it has worked for me.

Secondly, I am concerned by this statement from your 2nd post:

" I don't need anybody's research about anything as I do my own and make my decisions as to what I believe and do not believe. Some people only search for articles that validate their strong beliefs."

Surely it's important to listen to both points of view to make an informed judgement. When I was diagnosed I went onto the Uk Diabetes website and read the site but ended up feeling very confused. The only advice the doc gave me was to avoid sugar and cereal. This website claims that no food is banned. I could not find an explanation which made sense for eating starchy carbs when they raise my blood sugar. I came on this website by accident. Someone referred me to diet doctor and that did make sense. I did however check out the credentials of the blogger before following the advice and entered into correspondence with him.

I would also like to comment on this statement:

"As to the appalling medical advice you speak of, it is not true for everybody. "

I am pleased that you have a good GP but unfortunately some of us don't. I have never claimed that all advice given by HCPs is appalling. Just for some of us. For example, my doc told me I didn't need feet or eye tests. The consultant disagreed. I was refused a doctors appointment when the paramedic told me to seek one the next day as he believed my hypo was caused by too many metformin tablets and I had to contact the hospital, who told me to reduce my dosage down to 1 tablet per day.
You also go on to add:

"I think some people forget that General Practitioners are not specialists.The growth in Type2 diabetes is astronomical and they are ill equipped to deal with it. Their patient list is growing by the day and everyone wants a cure or expensive treatment for all manner of things. Time wasters and missed appointments cause more problems and although they deal with 90% of the NHS workload, they only get under 9% of the funding. General practice is in crisis and yet people do not seem to understand this. I sometimes think that some people are of the opinion that a G.P. sits twiddling his thumbs waiting for patients."

Some of us do understand that they are not specialists and that they are underfunded and overworked. However, this does not excuse some of the poor practice which some of the members on this forum have experienced.

I am saddened by your comments about some people with T2 diabetes:

" We are, as forum members, a small proportion of the people with Type2 diabetes., we are proactive, not everyone is....... Very often I will see people with Type2 diabetes in the waiting area snacking on rubbish, moaning about their blood sugar levels whilst acknowledging that they leave their management to their G.P. You have to take ownership,, ask questions, do some research if you want to get on top of it. I suspect that the majority do not."

It may well be the case that you have seen people, who are T2 in the waiting room eating rubbish. However, there are plenty of posts from T1 diabetics who do not follow a sensible diet or take their meds. Some of them are suffering from depression and may need help and compassion, not criticism.

Finally, I could not find what the question below relates to.

"Could you give me an answer to my last paragraph about the supposed intolerance to carbs? The subject intrigues me."
,

 

[catherinecherub]

Hi Catherine,

I am confused by aspects of both of your responses to me.In your first post addressed to me on this thread, you wrote:

"Do you really think that only people who follow a LC/HF diet are able to lose weight?
Have you ever thought that there are people on the forum who do not follow you and yet have lost the weight that they needed to?"

Then you go on to write in your second post:
" I am not one of those people on the forum who tells others what they should be eating or not eating. I like people to find their own eating plan that works for them rather than being expected to conform to what other people think is right for everybody."

Surely you have just contradicted yourself?
You seem under the misguided impression that I tell people to only eat LCHF when this is not the case. If you have read any of my posts to new members then you will know that I have always stated that there is more than one approach but I prefer LCHF because it's the only one where the science for it is available to read, it made sense and it has worked for me.

Secondly, I am concerned by this statement from your 2nd post:

" I don't need anybody's research about anything as I do my own and make my decisions as to what I believe and do not believe. Some people only search for articles that validate their strong beliefs."

Surely it's important to listen to both points of view to make an informed judgement. When I was diagnosed I went onto the Uk Diabetes website and read the site but ended up feeling very confused. The only advice the doc gave me was to avoid sugar and cereal. This website claims that no food is banned. I could not find an explanation which made sense for eating starchy carbs when they raise my blood sugar. I came on this website by accident. Someone referred me to diet doctor and that did make sense. I did however check out the credentials of the blogger before following the advice and entered into correspondence with him.

I would also like to comment on this statement:

"As to the appalling medical advice you speak of, it is not true for everybody. "

I am pleased that you have a good GP but unfortunately some of us don't. I have never claimed that all advice given by HCPs is appalling. Just for some of us. For example, my doc told me I didn't need feet or eye tests. The consultant disagreed. I was refused a doctors appointment when the paramedic told me to seek one the next day as he believed my hypo was caused by too many metformin tablets and I had to contact the hospital, who told me to reduce my dosage down to 1 tablet per day.
You also go on to add:

"I think some people forget that General Practitioners are not specialists.The growth in Type2 diabetes is astronomical and they are ill equipped to deal with it. Their patient list is growing by the day and everyone wants a cure or expensive treatment for all manner of things. Time wasters and missed appointments cause more problems and although they deal with 90% of the NHS workload, they only get under 9% of the funding. General practice is in crisis and yet people do not seem to understand this. I sometimes think that some people are of the opinion that a G.P. sits twiddling his thumbs waiting for patients."

Some of us do understand that they are not specialists and that they are underfunded and overworked. However, this does not excuse some of the poor practice which some of the members on this forum have experienced.

I am saddened by your comments about some people with T2 diabetes:
" We are, as forum members, a small proportion of the people with Type2 diabetes., we are proactive, not everyone is....... Very often I will see people with Type2 diabetes in the waiting area snacking on rubbish, moaning about their blood sugar levels whilst acknowledging that they leave their management to their G.P. You have to take ownership,, ask questions, do some research if you want to get on top of it. I suspect that the majority do not."

It may well be the case that you have seen people, who are T2 in the waiting room eating rubbish. However, there are plenty of posts from T1 diabetics who do not follow a sensible diet or take their meds. Some of them are suffering from depression and may need help and compassion, not criticism.

Finally, I could not find what the question below relates to.

"Could you give me an answer to my last paragraph about the supposed intolerance to carbs? The subject intrigues me."
,

Far from a contradiction Scandichic. I am sorry that you find it hard to understand what I am saying.
People cannot dictate a diet to others and be sure that it will work. They have to take into account many factors, the person is not a clone of themselves, different gender, various health problems, different age, less/more mobile,likes and dislikes. Everyone should be given the opportunity of experimenting to see what they can and cannot tolerate rather than be told what they have to do. I know this is difficult when people are not provided with meters but it is the best health investment that a Type 2 diabetic can make and is the only tool that will help them gain control.
I have suggested before that people who cannot afford one should ask for it as a birthday/christmas present as it will help them enourmously.

I am not directing this at you personally although you seem to think I am. Read some of the newbie threads and see how people are responding, not all I hasten to add. "You have to stop eating bread, pasta, rice, cereal,fuit other than berries etc....." There is no mention there that their tolerance to these foods may vary and they may be able to eat a smaller portion than they normally do. Newbies come here in various emotional states, some think they are going to die, some think that complications are inevitable. Then they are told about what they initially see as a strict diet that must adhere to and no mention that they may not have to sacrifice their staple foods but use them in smaller portions. I have even seen a reply that gave a link to a low carb site, nothing more. What a welcome.

As to research, I do look for both sides of any debate, it would be pointless to only look at one side wouldn't it considering that there is so much research for and against any topic here on the forum. Some people use Google to their advantage by phrasing the search to get the results they want. They will not accept other articles are just as important.

I agree that some patients get a rough deal with their Drs. and it is very frustrating but not many people can accept that there are more good Drs than bad ones and sometimes the problem is the patient has to be more assertive and question what is being said. If people do not have the confidence to ask questions then I have suggested in the past that they write things down and pass their letter on to the Dr. If they cannot get answers, as in your case, then they need to consider changing Drs. Different Drs take more interest in any given health problem. If you cannot get on with your Dr., feel he is letting you down, have legitimate reasons to complain then I would urge anyone to make a complaint.

To suggest that I have no compassion for Type1s or anyone for that matter suffering from depression is so wrong. You are portraying me as something that I am not. You need to read through some of my posts to know that I care deeply about people who experience depression and have included some helpful articles, ways of coping and anything else to help. I am quite shocked to think you could even write that.

 

[Scandichic]

Hi Catherine!
You seem to be surprised that I may have thought that you were aiming your posts at me. This is because you have written:

"Do you really think that only people who follow a LC/HF diet are able to lose weight?
Have you ever thought that there are people on the forum who do not follow you and yet have lost the weight that they needed to?"

Yes, I am confused by what you write because on the one hand, you've stated:

"I don't need anybody's research about anything as I do my own and make my decisions as to what I believe and do not believe."

But then in this post you write:

"As to research, I do look for both sides of any debate, it would be pointless to only look at one side wouldn't it considering that there is so much research for and against any topic here on the forum. "

I do however agree with your point that not all diets work for all people and that

"Everyone should be given the opportunity of experimenting to see what they can and cannot tolerate rather than be told what they have to do."

I only wish that Diabetes Uk and the HCPs whom I read about on this forum would share this belief. I have finally found a doctor in my practice where he has told me to carry on low carbing. The others refer to it as "that mad diet"
I agree with your point about the meter too. I usually suggest the sd code free one on ebay as the strips are£7 for 50. I think it's disgraceful that anyone is denied a meter and strips. I think it's part of my diabetes management and by that rationale should be given one as per the NICE criteria. It is particularly shocking for people on low incomes.

It is clear that there are good docs out there. Like all professions, there are good, bad and indifferent. They are overworked and the funding for the NHS is a joke. I don't think that the problem with some doctors necessarily lies with the lack of a patient's assertiveness always. I tried to have a rational conversation with the dn about low carbing. I explained what I had found out and why I was following it but said that I was struggling to find the rationale behind portion control and starchy carbs and could she explain why. She crossed her arms, told me not to come back and that she was referring me to the hospital.

Finally, I did not suggest that you "have no compassion for Type1s or anyone for that matter suffering from depression."
I merely pointed out that there are diabetics who are bothT1 and T2 who eat badly. I was trying to point out that the reason for this is not always obvious and that we should be wary of judging them as they might have depression or some other illness.

 

[catherinecherub]

We seem to have reached an impasse.
I don't understand your replies and you don't understand mine.

 

[Scandichic]

We seem to have reached an impasse.
I don't understand your replies and you don't understand mine.

Well we agree on meters and the appalling underfunding of the NHS.......