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Failure to fund Diabetes Education for Professionals.

  • Thread starter Thread starter catherinecherub
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catherinecherub

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People on the forum have highlighted that there is a postcode lottery as to whether we get good or bad education from our HCP's when they deal with our diabetes. If they are not awarded time and courses to help them then perhaps our indignation is misplaced as it could be through no fault of their own.
They cannot be expected to self fund courses or use precious family time so something needs to change and quickly. Before anyone decides that they should improve their education by self funding and taking courses in their spare time you have to ask your self if you would be prepared to do so. They are already in a stressful environment on a daily basis, have families and other commitments and are entitled to use their leisure time as they see fit. Suffering with burnout will not help anyone. There has to be a shift in expecting HCP's to undertake jobs that they are not qualified to do.

This article goes some way to explaining as to why this happens.

"A total of 60% of Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) in England fail to fund specific education about diabetes for healthcare professions working in their area, according to Diabetes UK.

Furthermore, more than half (44%) of CCGs did not assign any time for healthcare professionals, including retinal screeners, to undertake diabetes-related education"

http://www.optometry.co.uk/news-and-features/news/?article=6366
 
catherinecherub said:
People on the forum have highlighted that there is a postcode lottery as to whether we get good or bad education from our HCP's when they deal with our diabetes. If they are not awarded time and courses to help them then perhaps our indignation is misplaced as it could be through no fault of their own.
They cannot be expected to self fund courses or use precious family time so something needs to change and quickly. Before anyone decides that they should improve their education by self funding and taking courses in their spare time you have to ask your self if you would be prepared to do so. They are already in a stressful environment on a daily basis, have families and other commitments and are entitled to use their leisure time as they see fit. Suffering with burnout will not help anyone. There has to be a shift in expecting HCP's to undertake jobs that they are not qualified to do.

This article goes some way to explaining as to why this happens.

"A total of 60% of Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) in England fail to fund specific education about diabetes for healthcare professions working in their area, according to Diabetes UK.

Furthermore, more than half (44%) of CCGs did not assign any time for healthcare professionals, including retinal screeners, to undertake diabetes-related education"

http://www.optometry.co.uk/news-and-features/news/?article=6366
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Absolutely disgraceful! No they **** well shouldn't have to work in their free time - family or not!
 
zand said:
Yes I agree, when I worked I did what I could to educate myself in my field, why shouldn't others do the same?
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I am of the same mind as you motivationally, however if the employer does not reward/fund gaining of knowledge then the employee will tend to lose motivation to improve their knowledge. If the choice is to self educate or have a family life then the tendency will be the latter!
 
catherinecherub said:
. There has to be a shift in expecting HCP's to undertake jobs that they are not qualified to do.
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Surely this is the most relevant point. Are the HCP's being asked to do something they are not qualified to do? If so, then they should receive adequate training fully funded by the employer. It may have to infringe on their free time but that's up to the employer to make sure there are incentives for doing so.

If they are fully qualified an not up to scratch then that's a different story.
 
What’s the difference between a practice nurse and a DSN?
The role of a DSN is very specialised compared to the generality of a practice nurse. Practice nurses can provide services to patients, such as offering diabetes education, completing yearly reviews and advising on medication. Appointments are often 10 minutes.

DSNs have the luxury of 30 minute appointments to focus purely on diabetes management. We have the skills and expertise to manage complex cases and we take on referrals of those people who may be having difficulty managing their condition.

A large part of our role is education and support – not only to our patients but also to other members of the multidisciplinary team and patients and their carers.

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us...erview-Sonya-Smith-Diabetes-Specialist-Nurse/

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/News/Diabetes-specialist-nurses-at-breaking-point/
 
I don't believe in practice nurses , because all nurses practice ...

To become a specialist nurse ...now that is something I support in all fields of health ....
 
Kat100 said:
I don't believe in practice nurses , because all nurses practice ...

To become a specialist nurse ...now that is something I support in all fields of health ....
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Agreed Kat but as you can see from the links in the post above yours, DSNs are becoming thin on the ground.
If a patient needs specialist care then the practice nurse/G.P. cannot refer them to a DSN who doesn't exist The DSN is a specialist in that subject and they cut the consultant workload. When the consultants are inundated with appointments that could have been managed by a DSN then people may wake up for the need to recruit more DSNs.
 
catherinecherub said:
Agreed Kat but as you can see from the links in the post above yours, DSNs are becoming thin on the ground.
If a patient needs specialist care then the practice nurse/G.P. cannot refer them to a DSN who doesn't exist The DSN is a specialist in that subject and they cut the consultant workload. When the consultants are inundated with appointments that could have been managed by a DSN then people may wake up for the need to recruit more DSNs.
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Yes I am very aware of the politics of health care ...but still,support the need for specialist nurses who are really qualified in a subject of health ...
I support your words "wake up " not new to hear but I do support them ....Kat
 
I am not going to be political but why aren't nurses at surgeries trained in the first place. They are substitute doctors!
The point of having these people is ease the strain on GPs. To look after and care for diabetics. So in any other industry they have to be trained. Any hospital nurse has to go through years of intensive training.
Are they getting paid enough to do the work?
This training cannot be done on a 2 week course.
Are the funds being diverted away from primary healthcare to surgeries to cut waiting times at hospitals?
There are a lot of deep concerns about the NHS under the Tories and you honestly can't defend the cuts, when private care is diverting money away from where it is needed. Not enough nurses, not enough doctors and a system of healthcare that is top heavy in its staff. The patient nurse ratio is criminal.
I got political! Apologies!
It just annoys me that the health service is political rather than what it was created for!
I remember all you had at a surgery was a doctor and he would refer rather than treat conditions him/herself.
I do believe that was a better system.
Of course the biggest problem is the tiered service and if you can pay! That sums it up for me!
 
Many Practices have closed. Many like mine have paid to have a part-time counsellor at £10,000 and have now the Counsellor has gone as they could not afford it.
GP's are self employed and funding is very, very complicated. (Unecessarily so). We are lucky that we have dsn's and acute nurses, and I know many people think gp's are overpaid... However, they are now having to be coping with more admin staff and Practice Managers analysing finances with accountants than being able to cope with all the training costs as well.

The state of the whole NHS is appalling, with a hugely growing population AND higher expectations and longer life.

In a recent survey over 90% of the GP's questioned expected the NHS to be privatised in someway within 10 years.

Our GP's are having to form a Company (federation) with other Practices in our area to be able to share proviion of services....

We are lucky that our Practice Manager keeps us informed of these developments.

I quite see why diabetes training is ****...
 
Enclave said:
It's their job .. Why should they not look to educate themselves ..
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Yes but not in their free time. I would be very resentful if someone suggested I should attend courses in my free time as I already work in my family time. Spent weekend marking and doing wall displays Saturday morning! Open evening tonight and got in at 9pm. It ended at 8 but parents leave when they feel like it which is pretty **** selfish when we've been in school since 8am and have yet to eat! Just finished my dinner having got in at 9!
 
Enclave said:
I think they are paid enough .. Again its money money, money .. What happened to taking a pride in your work.. Earning the respect of the people you are advising.. O no just throw money at them ... So they can lift their head to pretend they are interested..
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I'm sorry but I find your remarks objectionable. Doctors and nurses have a thankless task and already work incredibly long days dealing with the general public. They deserve every penny of their pay and should not have to give up free time to spend it training. All people regardless of profession should have their training done during work hours. And paid for by their employer! My husband works in a nursery and the poor girls are on a pittance. They then have to give the greedy company money to complete training which is a requirement for the job! Disgusting! Doing training in your own time has nothing to do with pride in the job.
 
Enclave said:
@Scandichic .. Did not mean to offend ..
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No problem.
Just fed up with constant attacks on public sector workers and the general erosion of rights for working people. My personal bug bear is zero hours contracts. I think they should be illegal.
 
Scandichic said:
No problem.
Just fed up with constant attacks on public sector workers and the general erosion of rights for working people. My personal bug bear is zero hours contracts. I think they should be illegal.
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Def agree with 0 hr contracts. They just keeping people away from being able to get mortgages... No hours, no mortgage...

There is a great disparity though between public and private companies for work ethics. My hubby in distribution management and he too had to pay and study outside of work to get his qualifications.
 
I work as a nurse for the NHS and in theory we can do training during working hours or be paid to do it during our time off.
The problem is that there are not enough staff to allow people to be absent doing training. And work itself is so stressful that people need time to rest during their precious time off and not spend it doing training!

And additional training on Diabetes for nurses is not on the (long) list of mandatory training that we all have to do. It is available but it is not mandatory. Maybe it should be
 
Scandichic said:
I'm sorry but I find your remarks objectionable. Doctors and nurses have a thankless task and already work incredibly long days dealing with the general public. They deserve every penny of their pay and should not have to give up free time to spend it training. All people regardless of profession should have their training done during work hours. And paid for by their employer! My husband works in a nursery and the poor girls are on a pittance. They then have to give the greedy company money to complete training which is a requirement for the job! Disgusting! Doing training in your own time has nothing to do with pride in the job.
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I really think that @Enclave was posting in a subjective manner as he has had issues with a HCP.
If he had bothered to read through the thread, he would have seen things in a more objective light. Nobody has suggested that all HCP's are angels but it does get a bit tiresome when HCP bashing is seen as the norm.
All public sector workers are expected to do over and above and most of them are dealing with the public on a daily basis so perhaps we should turn it around and ask that members of the public respect that public sector workers are doing their best at a very difficult time with constraints on funding, meagre pay rises and demoralising attitudes towards us.
I wonder how many public sector forum members could tell horrific tales on how the public behave? I could certainly name a few hairy experiences which is to be expected in psychiatry from clients but I often find that relatives can be intimidating, rude, have higher expectations than can be met and will sometimes threaten physical violence. There is plenty of news as to how teachers are threatened by pupils and parents, fireman have their way blocked to fires by angry yobs with nothing better to do and council officials are threatened on a daily basis as are social workers.

Don't knock it until you've tried it.;);)
 
catherinecherub said:
I really think that @Enclave was posting in a subjective manner as he has had issues with a HCP.
If he had bothered to read through the thread, he would have seen things in a more objective light. Nobody has suggested that all HCP's are angels but it does get a bit tiresome when HCP bashing is seen as the norm.
All public sector workers are expected to do over and above and most of them are dealing with the public on a daily basis so perhaps we should turn it around and ask that members of the public respect that public sector workers are doing their best at a very difficult time with constraints on funding, meagre pay rises and demoralising attitudes towards us.
I wonder how many public sector forum members could tell horrific tales on how the public behave? I could certainly name a few hairy experiences which is to be expected in psychiatry from clients but I often find that relatives can be intimidating, rude, have higher expectations than can be met and will sometimes threaten physical violence. There is plenty of news as to how teachers are threatened by pupils and parents, fireman have their way blocked to fires by angry yobs with nothing better to do and council officials are threatened on a daily basis as are social workers.

Don't knock it until you've tried it.;);)
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Or as my DSN would say, 'Don't judge another until you've walked in their shoes.'
 
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