LCHF diet to help you lose weight, not diabetes

[Kat100]

@phoenix Good point about the warfarin and eating lots of veggies, this isn't recommended in the initial stages of warfarin treatment, but after that when the INR has stabilised it's a lot easier to increase the amount of leafy green veg you can eat, with the help of weekly INR testing. My nurse told me to stabilise my INR levels first and then eat the diet I wanted and we would adjust the warfarin to suit my diet. So happily, curly kale became a regular addition to my diet again.

Yes so many health conditions to consider ....my elderly parent has a low blood sugar with warfarin ...it is so hard for the other parent who I is a frail career ...goodness and the cold he feels is terrible ...his tests change all the time , but after bowel cancer and being resuscitated , not doing so bad ...
You see there is so much people will never want to share ...sorry I have rambled on you have made me think though about more complications ....life never being easy .

 

[sanguine]

OK, getting back to the OP, this is an example of a recent post I have put up in response to a just-diagnosed, dazed and confused new member. I have deliberately not recommended any particular diet, and have made efforts to be as inclusive as I can (see the highlighted bits). I mention (note 'mention', not 'instruct' or whatever as some are suggesting happens) LCHF because that's what I do along with many other T2s. I'm not telling the new member to do the same, but I'm providing information that they are unlikely to have received elsewhere so that they are more informed and can come to their own decision. The alternative is they go off and eat the 'Healthy Plate' as promoted by NICE, with carbs in every meal, and join the burgeoning number of uncontrolled and helpless T2s requiring more and more drugs. As a supportive forum concerned to help the newly diagnosed, do we really want them to do that? Now, what in the following do people have a problem with?

T2 diagnosis usually comes as a bit of a shock followed by confusion from often conflicting advice. But don’t panic, it can be managed. It does require a bit of a lifestyle change in terms of diet and discipline, but we can and will help you with that. We were all in the same boat once!

The main priority is to get blood sugars under control. For diabetics this means not just cutting out sugars but significantly reducing carbohydrates as well. Carbohydrates metabolise quickly to sugar in the system (some take a little longer than others) and so for diabetics they act basically as if they were sugar. So you need to cut out starchy carbs as much as possible – bread, potatoes, pasta and rice. This may be contrary to medical profession guidance you have received to eat carbs with every meal – this is fundamentally flawed advice rejected by most well-controlled T2s on here.

In order to learn what foods you can and cannot tolerate it is recommended that you have a test meter (not usually prescribed for T2s). With this you can measure your blood glucose (BG) levels before and after meals and see what ‘spikes’ you. Again this may be contrary to professional advice you might receive which often regards testing as pointless. But how else are you supposed to learn? Many on here use the SD Codefree system (from Amazon etc) because the strips are the most cost-effective.

For low carb foods try and go for those that have less than 10g total carbohydrate per 100g, less than 5g if you can. Ignore the ‘of which sugar’ bit, that’s irrelevant to us. You will become an avid reader of food labels! As well as carbs avoid tropical fruits including bananas which are full of sugar – for us berry fruits are best.

You may now be wondering what we do eat! Many on here successfully manage their BG with the low carb high fat diet (LCHF, see www.dietdoctor.com/lchf). So you can eat meat, fish, salads, above-ground vegetables, avocados, olive oil, butter etc. If you reduce carbs you lose the calories that came with them, so these need to be replaced from other food groups such as protein and fat. The ‘high fat’ bit bothers some people, as it did me at first, but all it means is you can freely eat more fat to offset the carb calories – and you don’t feel so hungry all the time either (carbs are addictive). Avoid most ‘low fat’ products as these usually have added sugar – go for full fat milk, cream, butter, Greek yoghurt etc.

Some prefer to keep eating some carbs, because they want to and/or they can tolerate more; and some are less able to eat higher levels of fat. Everyone has to make the best choice for their own circumstances.

You’re probably overloaded with information by now, and needing a bit of time to absorb it. No problem, just relax and ask any questions you like.

 

[Micky25]

OK, getting back to the OP, this is an example of a recent post I have put up in response to a just-diagnosed, dazed and confused new member. I have deliberately not recommended any particular diet, and have made efforts to be as inclusive as I can (see the highlighted bits). I mention (note 'mention', not 'instruct' or whatever as some are suggesting happens) LCHF because that's what I do along with many other T2s. I'm not telling the new member to do the same, but I'm providing information that they are unlikely to have received elsewhere so that they are more informed and can come to their own decision. The alternative is they go off and eat the 'Healthy Plate' as promoted by NICE, with carbs in every meal, and join the burgeoning number of uncontrolled and helpless T2s requiring more and more drugs. As a supportive forum concerned to help the newly diagnosed, do we really want them to do that? Now, what in the following do people have a problem with?

T2 diagnosis usually comes as a bit of a shock followed by confusion from often conflicting advice. But don’t panic, it can be managed. It does require a bit of a lifestyle change in terms of diet and discipline, but we can and will help you with that. We were all in the same boat once!

The main priority is to get blood sugars under control. For diabetics this means not just cutting out sugars but significantly reducing carbohydrates as well. Carbohydrates metabolise quickly to sugar in the system (some take a little longer than others) and so for diabetics they act basically as if they were sugar. So you need to cut out starchy carbs as much as possible – bread, potatoes, pasta and rice. This may be contrary to medical profession guidance you have received to eat carbs with every meal – this is fundamentally flawed advice rejected by most well-controlled T2s on here.

In order to learn what foods you can and cannot tolerate it is recommended that you have a test meter (not usually prescribed for T2s). With this you can measure your blood glucose (BG) levels before and after meals and see what ‘spikes’ you. Again this may be contrary to professional advice you might receive which often regards testing as pointless. But how else are you supposed to learn? Many on here use the SD Codefree system (from Amazon etc) because the strips are the most cost-effective.

For low carb foods try and go for those that have less than 10g total carbohydrate per 100g, less than 5g if you can. Ignore the ‘of which sugar’ bit, that’s irrelevant to us. You will become an avid reader of food labels! As well as carbs avoid tropical fruits including bananas which are full of sugar – for us berry fruits are best.

You may now be wondering what we do eat! Many on here successfully manage their BG with the low carb high fat diet (LCHF, see www.dietdoctor.com/lchf). So you can eat meat, fish, salads, above-ground vegetables, avocados, olive oil, butter etc. If you reduce carbs you lose the calories that came with them, so these need to be replaced from other food groups such as protein and fat. The ‘high fat’ bit bothers some people, as it did me at first, but all it means is you can freely eat more fat to offset the carb calories – and you don’t feel so hungry all the time either (carbs are addictive). Avoid most ‘low fat’ products as these usually have added sugar – go for full fat milk, cream, butter, Greek yoghurt etc.

Some prefer to keep eating some carbs, because they want to and/or they can tolerate more; and some are less able to eat higher levels of fat. Everyone has to make the best choice for their own circumstances.

You’re probably overloaded with information by now, and needing a bit of time to absorb it. No problem, just relax and ask any questions you like.

Great informative post.

 

[AndBreathe]

Do you have the answer we are looking for ...

@douglas99 replying to both you and Kat.

If you want to see what I have written to new people, there will be a number of instances around. I would normally suggest that most of us have founf cutting down the sugars and carbs has been extremely helpful, and suggesting testing is how we learn by how much we need to do that and what we can, and can't get away with. I don't suggest reducing carbs and increasing fats, because the reality is that most people we see come through here (and I'm only talking about T2s here. I tend to leave T1s to the other T1s, unless there's nobody responding, and then my message would be purely a holding message) could do with dropping a few pounds along the way. And, frankly, I don't high fat myself, so it would be hypocritical to tell anyone to do something I can't stomach myself.

In reality, I do eat more fat now than I did in the old life, because I understand better now, that my pork crackling isn't an absolute abomination, and of course, it tastes great. But, even listening to others on this thread, I don't eat nearly as much fat as others on here. Bulletproof coffee is really never going top be part of my life. I'll enjoy some cheese, but I won't be slicing it and adding butter. it's all about balance and tolerance.

I'm not sure if that's clear enough for anyone, but my way works for me, I'm guessing it'll keep changing a little as my preferences modify.

 

[Kat100]

Th

@douglas99 replying to both you and Kat.

If you want to see what I have written to new people, there will be a number of instances around. I would normally suggest that most of us have founf cutting down the sugars and carbs has been extremely helpful, and suggesting testing is how we learn by how much we need to do that and what we can, and can't get away with. I don't suggest reducing carbs and increasing fats, because the reality is that most people we see come through here (and I'm only talking about T2s here. I tend to leave T1s to the other T1s, unless there's nobody responding, and then my message would be purely a holding message) could do with dropping a few pounds along the way. And, frankly, I don't high fat myself, so it would be hypocritical to tell anyone to do something I can't stomach myself.

In reality, I do eat more fat now than I did in the old life, because I understand better now, that my pork crackling isn't an absolute abomination, and of course, it tastes great. But, even listening to others on this thread, I don't eat nearly as much fat as others on here. Bulletproof coffee is really never going top be part of my life. I'll enjoy some cheese, but I won't be slicing it and adding butter. it's all about balance and tolerance.

I'm not sure if that's clear enough for anyone, but my way works for me, I'm guessing it'll keep changing a little as my preferences modify.

thanks for sharing ...best wishes ..Kat ....I love cheese but I do,the lighter version of a nice cheddar but that is me ...yes balance and tolerance those are good words

 

[AnnieC]

I am really concerned about the dynamics that are happening ....I don't think diet should be the first big discussion for someone here who is new or not so new ....people are of course free to follow what ever diet they wish , but let a person have time to breath first ....there is so much to,digest and people are all just shocked in many cases ...I know what diet I follow and choose but I would never push it at anyone ...like me telling everyone meat is bad for you , yes I choose not to eat meat , up to others what they do ...
Yes I agree it is dangerous to , we just don't know the facts and are not qualified to say .....suggestions and our experiences are all we can share ...but when you come here and are baffled with the diet that you should or should not be following while trying to get a grip on what is happening with your life and health is just not right ...that is how it feels ...
I like the information daisy gives ....as long as it stays within nice guidelines ....what is wrong with it ....it does highlight diet choices as well ...

I do agree with you that sometimes newbies are swamped with advice about diet as soon as they put their first message on here when really they need a friendly welcome and some time just to absorb the fact that they are now diabetic Their head is already spinning with what they have been told and they are totally overwhelmed. They really need some time to digest what they have be told.not told straight away the have to stop eating certain things as that is only more confusing for them. Let them settle in here they can then read the information that Daisy gives and then they can begin to think about what they want to do diet wise

 

[douglas99]

Th

thanks for sharing ...best wishes ..Kat ....I love cheese but I do,the lighter version of a nice cheddar but that is me ...yes balance and tolerance those are good words

I'm the same.
Boring, but i find a regular breakfast starts my day.
2 Ryvita, a nice 50% reduced fat cheddar, and a slice of ham

 

[douglas99]

@douglas99 replying to both you and Kat.

If you want to see what I have written to new people, there will be a number of instances around. I would normally suggest that most of us have founf cutting down the sugars and carbs has been extremely helpful, and suggesting testing is how we learn by how much we need to do that and what we can, and can't get away with. I don't suggest reducing carbs and increasing fats, because the reality is that most people we see come through here (and I'm only talking about T2s here. I tend to leave T1s to the other T1s, unless there's nobody responding, and then my message would be purely a holding message) could do with dropping a few pounds along the way. And, frankly, I don't high fat myself, so it would be hypocritical to tell anyone to do something I can't stomach myself.

In reality, I do eat more fat now than I did in the old life, because I understand better now, that my pork crackling isn't an absolute abomination, and of course, it tastes great. But, even listening to others on this thread, I don't eat nearly as much fat as others on here. Bulletproof coffee is really never going top be part of my life. I'll enjoy some cheese, but I won't be slicing it and adding butter. it's all about balance and tolerance.

I'm not sure if that's clear enough for anyone, but my way works for me, I'm guessing it'll keep changing a little as my preferences modify.

Without arguing as to whether or not you advise cutting down on carbs, as I'm sure that would get into a 'quote me' scenario, you have not really answered the question though, both me and Kat asked for what you would advise the newbie to replace the calories with?

Your words, and you haven't said what you would advise yet?
Myself, and others suggest eating to our meter, whereas you, very specifically said

'For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.'

How do you advise others make up the calories?

That was the question asked?

 

[AndBreathe]

Without arguing as to whether or not you advise cutting down on carbs, as I'm sure that would get into a 'quote me' scenario, you have not really answered the question though, both me and Kat asked for what you would advise the newbie to replace the calories with?

Your words, and you haven't said what you would advise yet?
Myself, and others suggest eating to our meter, whereas you, very specifically said

'For me, the issue is how everyone chooses to make up the calories they ditch when giving up the bread, spuds, past and sugars.'

How do you advise others make up the calories?

That was the question asked?

Sorry, not so clear from me. I wouldn't advise them to replace the calories, nor would I tell them not to replace them. I would suggest I try to give them two important messages 1. Carb moderation and 2, Testing, with no prioritising one against the other.

As I say, most newly diagnosed people we encounter in here need to lose weight, so I'm not going to go telling them to each lots of calorie intense fats.

For anyone on that "rabbit in the headlamps" phase, it's difficult to assimilate as much information as we try to give them, so I would like to think I concentrate on the critical stuff. If they get hungry, they'll come back and ask again - especially if their numbers are reducing.

 

[CollieBoy]

There is no need to mention GTT tests to newbies. Not everyone has one. Their HCP's advise on how many carbs to have and for how long (well that's what I've read on this forum anyway) so you really don't need to worry about that one .

In my experience, the HCPs don't have a "scooby" about carbing up prior to a GTT. despite me" leading them along by the hand", they insisted I didn't have to do any preparations!

 

[douglas99]

Sorry, not so clear from me. I wouldn't advise them to replace the calories, nor would I tell them not to replace them. I would suggest I try to give them two important messages 1. Carb moderation and 2, Testing, with no prioritising one against the other.

As I say, most newly diagnosed people we encounter in here need to lose weight, so I'm not going to go telling them to each lots of calorie intense fats.

For anyone on that "rabbit in the headlamps" phase, it's difficult to assimilate as much information as we try to give them, so I would like to think I concentrate on the critical stuff. If they get hungry, they'll come back and ask again - especially if their numbers are reducing.

I think we're singing off the same hymn sheet then.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

Hello

It strikes me that you are trying to fix something that isn't broken, the advice new people get is terrific.

Far better than the advice myself and others seem to have received from their doctors on diagnosis.

I am confused why a well controlled diabetic would be discouraged from sharing their methods, regardless of what it may be?

Sorry for my comments if they are misplaced.

 

[Kat100]

Hello

It strikes me that you are trying to fix something that isn't broken, the advice new people get is terrific.

Far better than the advice myself and others seem to have received from their doctors on diagnosis.

I am confused why a well controlled diabetic would be discouraged from sharing their methods, regardless of what it may be?

Sorry for my comments if they are misplaced.

Not misplaced , valued I am sure ...best wishes

 

[Kat100]

I'm the same.
Boring, but i find a regular breakfast starts my day.
2 Ryvita, a nice 50% reduced fat cheddar, and a slice of ham

I adore that cheese ....

 

[Kat100]

I do agree with you that sometimes newbies are swamped with advice about diet as soon as they put their first message on here when really they need a friendly welcome and some time just to absorb the fact that they are now diabetic Their head is already spinning with what they have been told and they are totally overwhelmed. They really need some time to digest what they have be told.not told straight away the have to stop eating certain things as that is only more confusing for them. Let them settle in here they can then read the information that Daisy gives and then they can begin to think about what they want to do diet wise

Yes , I believe people need time to settle in , they maybe battling with other health conditions as well , also on medication or taking new medication , I certainly would not be comfortable in giving advise that involves someone's medication with a diet that says reduce medication for example ..suggestions and personal experiences are one thing , when people speak purely from own experiences is fine , but anything else may be dangerous if an individual is feeling vulnerable ...This could be very dangerous indeed...but support is great and valuable at any stage ...
This subject is so big I don't think there will ever be an answer ...to suit all ...and a lot of people don't stay around on forums for very long , people change with their needs ...getting people to feel,comfortable and settled in is a nice welcome ..

 

[Kat100]

Tha

Sorry, not so clear from me. I wouldn't advise them to replace the calories, nor would I tell them not to replace them. I would suggest I try to give them two important messages 1. Carb moderation and 2, Testing, with no prioritising one against the other.

As I say, most newly diagnosed people we encounter in here need to lose weight, so I'm not going to go telling them to each lots of calorie intense fats.

For anyone on that "rabbit in the headlamps" phase, it's difficult to assimilate as much information as we try to give them, so I would like to think I concentrate on the critical stuff. If they get hungry, they'll come back and ask again - especially if their numbers are reducing.

thanks for the clarity ...best wishes

 

[equipoise]

Just thought I'd mention that one of my posts on this thread appears to have been deleted (you can still read it on kat100's response -- no.13). A bit curious, given the tone of some of the other contributions. And when other posters complain about their voice not being heard. What a funny world we live in....

 

[zand]

Just thought I'd mention that one of my posts on this thread appears to have been deleted (you can still read it on kat100's response -- no.13). A bit curious, given the tone of some of the other contributions. And when other posters complain about their voice not being heard. What a funny world we live in....

That does seem strange, perhaps it's just a blip? I can't see anything wrong with your post, you were merely answering the posts of others.

 

[equipoise]

That does seem strange, perhaps it's just a blip? I can't see anything wrong with your post, you were merely answering the posts of others.

In the spirit of avoiding 'usandthem' I will agree to believe that it was a blip, and was not reported by anyone. I hope this is true

 

[Daibell]

The whole problem as I see it is the term LCHF (low carb/high fat). This term gets bandied about without deeper explanations. If you ask 20 people on here what it actually means you will get 20 different answers. Am I a low carber on 60 to 65g of carbs? I have no idea. I am certainly a reduced carber. Am I a High fat person? Again I have no idea. I ate 80g of it yesterday, which doesn't seem excessively high to me.

It seems to me the term LCHF needs banning and replacing with RCIF (reduced carbs/increased fats) then newbies can decide for themselves how much to reduce carbs and increase fats by using their meters and calorie counting to ensure they are consuming just enough energy to lose or maintain weight.

Hi Bluetit. Totally agree. The term LCHF is just plain confusing and WILL scare newbies due to the HF bit. Note that Daisy never says LCHF and always says to lower the carbs. Until a few months ago the term never appeared on this forum and tends to be used without thought. RCIF sounds good to me.