There is no more need for amputations due to diabetic foot ulcers.

[Flowerpot]

I am glad your chosen treatment worked well for your wife, however the chaos that a foot ulcer can cause is a lot more than skin deep. I have had my leg in a below knee plaster cast for 24 months after an ulcer developed on my heel and infection spread to my bone. Without rapid intervention from modern medicine, debridement surgery and antibiotics I wouldn't have a leg to have in a plaster cast. My ankle joint collapsed as a result of the infection and there is no amount of ozone that could regrow an ankle joint for me.

I'm not dismissing the role of alternative therapies but I consider your comment that all foot amputations over the last 10 years have been unnecessary is wide of the mark. An amputation operation is the very last thing that is done after medical, surgical and all other options have failed. If the circulation and bone structure in your leg is not viable then you do not have a choice. It is not a cheap alternative, the cost of the operation, rehabilitation, prosthetic limbs is enormous. I have had amazing care from podiatrists, orthopaedic surgeons, rheumatologists and none of them nor myself have given up on saving my leg yet.

If all amputations could be avoided through ozone treatment I'm sure it wouldn't be an alternative therapy available on ebay and would be offered as a mainstream choice.

 

[Yorksman]

Our pool has a salt water/ozone generator so my daily swim is in water treated by this process.

It is a widely used water purification process and works on many bacteria at 2 - 5 parts per million, but this has to be continually produced given the short life cycle of the ozone.

At 3 ppm though, some of the bacteria and mycelia associated with wounds can take upto 240 mins to kill off at 20 deg C.

 

[oomhenry]

And how long is treatment time?

It depends on the size of the ulcer when you start the treatment. The large one took 3 months and the small one less than a month. A session is 30 minutes. We did 1 session per day and when we had time, we did 2. Usually on weekends.

 

[oomhenry]

I am glad your chosen treatment worked well for your wife, however the chaos that a foot ulcer can cause is a lot more than skin deep. I have had my leg in a below knee plaster cast for 24 months after an ulcer developed on my heel and infection spread to my bone. Without rapid intervention from modern medicine, debridement surgery and antibiotics I wouldn't have a leg to have in a plaster cast. My ankle joint collapsed as a result of the infection and there is no amount of ozone that could regrow an ankle joint for me.

I'm not dismissing the role of alternative therapies but I consider your comment that all foot amputations over the last 10 years have been unnecessary is wide of the mark. An amputation operation is the very last thing that is done after medical, surgical and all other options have failed. If the circulation and bone structure in your leg is not viable then you do not have a choice. It is not a cheap alternative, the cost of the operation, rehabilitation, prosthetic limbs is enormous. I have had amazing care from podiatrists, orthopaedic surgeons, rheumatologists and none of them nor myself have given up on saving my leg yet.

If all amputations could be avoided through ozone treatment I'm sure it wouldn't be an alternative therapy available on ebay and would be offered as a mainstream choice.

I am willing to offer 100 to 1 odds that ozone will work in each and every case of diabetic ulcers. I am willing to take the challenge to any medical professional who disputes my claims. What more can I say? The issue that has to be addressed is, why do the wounds not heal? If they answer that question correctly the solution to the problem is obvious. You will notice that I have not made any claims whatsoever with regards to other complications that may arise from diabetes like joints collapsing for example. Only that each and every wound that a diabetic has will be healed. If you had this therapy in time, the ankle would not have collapsed, but there is no way to prove that now.

 

[oomhenry]

Oom Henry
I had a look on Ebay, and found lots of assorted products including an ozone tuning fork for some incredible price. I did find something that reminded me of something that I had forgotten . Our pool has a salt water/ozone generator so my daily swim is in water treated by this process. (still going 2/3 through October ). I don't find that cuts take long to heal so maybe the pool water helps; but maybe it's because I have a low HbA1c. However, in spite of all the claims for such treatment, the only way we keep our pool at the right PH , clean and algae free is very frequent cleaning. (and even then we sometimes wake up to a nightmare green pool)
What's this got to do with your claims? . I think that the loving care you took in cleaning and debriding may well have played the biggest part in your wife's treatment. If you need care again then I would urge you to seek mainstream care and if it isn't forthcoming then do what you have done before o^3 is a good disinfectant
I'm not convinced that using a good disinfectant is going to be a cure for all (it isn't for the Russians either , article fortunately in English http://www.woundsinternational.com/...ussia-has-the-eastern-bloc-gotten-the-message)
I'm still convinced though that the solution is in both prevention and rapid intervention

I have cared for that wound for two weeks from the 30th of June to the 16th of July and it did not improve The only difference between the 3006 picture and the 1507 one is that I debrided it. No new tissue had formed during those two weeks. We started the ozone treatment on July 16. By the end of July I could see visible improvement. I checked again and by the 21st July there was a visible improvement. That was 5 days. In these pics you can clearly see the improvement over time. You may regard it as coincidence, but I do not.

 

[Yorksman]

The issue that has to be addressed is, why do the wounds not heal?

It depends on what pathogens are present. Many of the bacteria are resistant to antibiotics and ozone does not work on all pathogens and although it has a wider spectrum for some common problems, it is not a universal cure killing off all known germs.

 

[oomhenry]

It depends on what pathogens are present. Many of the bacteria are resistant to antibiotics and ozone does not work on all pathogens and although it has a wider spectrum for some common problems, it is not a universal cure killing off all known germs.

What pathogens are resistant to ozone sir? Could you provide a list? You are also wrong about it being the cause of wounds not healing.

An interesting study:
www.idb.hr/diabetologia/13no1-1.pdf

 

[oomhenry]

I just came across this double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial. They are few and far between, because there is no financial incentive or reward to do them.

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/dia.2011.0018?journalCode=dia

 

[oomhenry]

Yorksman, you sound like quite a scientist. I am trying to understand what your gripe is. If the wound services are okay in the UK and there are NO amputations, I can sort of understand your problem. If it ain't broke. don't fix it, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What about the people who are not diabetic? Why should their tax money be spent caring for the wounds of others when there is a cost effective and effective treatment available? Have you calculated the cost of dressing a wound daily for a year? It's enormous. Multiply that by the number of wounds treated and it is staggering.
If you can reduce the healing time to 2 months or thereabouts, the savings would be huge. Then I don't even mention the patient who has to endure the suffering for so long. Managing diabetes is tiring without having a wound. Add an ulcer to the mix and it becomes traumatic.

It does not matter which way you look at this, it makes sense.

 

[Yorksman]

Yorksman, you sound like quite a scientist. I am trying to understand what your gripe is. If the wound services are okay in the UK and there are NO amputations, I can sort of understand your problem. If it ain't broke. don't fix it, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

What pathogens are resistant to ozone sir? Could you provide a list? You are also wrong about it being the cause of wounds not healing.

My wife is a biomedical scientist and has worked in Pathology in blood sciences for over 30 years. We know what the disciplines of Bacteriology, Microbiology and Virology are and you won't cure most diseases whether spread through bacteria such as cholera or a virus such as ebola by use of a foot spa. Pick up a book on any one of the above if you want to inform yourself. I have no gripe. I am just interested in informed discussion but I can see from the tone of replies that you are becoming distressed by my questions.

Diabetic ulcers are dangerous because they are open and have restricted blood flow. Because of the restriction, the white blood cells of the autoimmune system cannot easily attack any infection, whether viral or bacteriological, which gets into open wound. Someone we both knew recently died because they contracted necrotizing fasciitis through open bed sores whilst in a hospital environment for a different condition. There are many possible potential bacteriological culprits and mostly they exist in the skin flora.

Whilst there are many ways for pathogens to get into your system, an insect bite for malaria, skin contact with a virus, inhalation, body fluids etc etc, open wounds or sores are best kept dressed and clean, especially with the rise in the number of mutated bacteria which are resistant to antibiotics.

 

[oomhenry]

My wife is a biomedical scientist and has worked in Pathology in blood sciences for over 30 years. We know what the disciplines of Bacteriology, Microbiology and Virology are and you won't cure most diseases whether spread through bacteria such as cholera or a virus such as ebola by use of a foot spa. Pick up a book on any one of the above if you want to inform yourself. I have no gripe. I am just interested in informed discussion but I can see from the tone of replies that you are becoming distressed by my questions.

Diabetic ulcers are dangerous because they are open and have restricted blood flow. Because of the restriction, the white blood cells of the autoimmune system cannot easily attack any infection, whether viral or bacteriological, which gets into open wound. Someone we both knew recently died because they contracted necrotizing fasciitis through open bed sores whilst in a hospital environment for a different condition. There are many possible potential bacteriological culprits and mostly they exist in the skin flora.

Whilst there are many ways for pathogens to get into your system, an insect bite for malaria, skin contact with a virus, inhalation, body fluids etc etc, open wounds or sores are best kept dressed and clean, especially with the rise in the number of mutated bacteria which are resistant to antibiotics.

So your knowledge is gleaned secondhand from your wife. I have told you more than once that diabetic ulcers are not a problem anymore and reiterated it with a bet that no-one has taken me up on yet. The fact that I am willing to wager on the efficacy of ozone should make anyone curious. I have provided links to literature, which it seems you have not read. Maybe you are thinking that I photoshopped the pictures that I uploaded.

Ozone is good news for diabetics everywhere. If you have known about ozone before I started this thread and if you have tried it without success, I might have believed your assertion that it does not harm protozoa, viruses or any other critter that does not belong in the body,

Ozone, which has been validated by scientists since 1906 for a multitude of pathogens in an array of applications, kills all known human pathogens, such as Ebola, H7N9 avian flu, SARS, and almost all other disease-causing viruses, bacteria, and fungal species such as the health-destroying Stachybotrys, Aspergillus, Penicillium, and Chaetomium toxic mold species.

Studies have proven that ozone is more efficient and has a higher oxidation kill potential than most traditional disinfectant/sanitizers (e.g. chlorine, hydrogen peroxide, peroxyacetic acid and chlorine dioxide), and its use eliminates the need to alternate different sanitizers because germs and viruses cannot build a tolerance to ozone.

Your friend would not have died if ozone was used in his therapy. It is a marvelous disinfectant. In fact all the issues you are concerned about in your post will be addressed by ozone. I would also assume that wounds have up to now been kept clean and dressed, yet many of them take an extraordinary long time to heal and some have ended in amputation anyway. Have you ever wondered why? I mean really gave it some thought because someone close to you wanted to know. Do you know that the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and over expecting a different result every time?

If I appear distressed at your questions it is because your attitude might convince someone who desperately needs it, to ignore it and get a limb amputated.

They are currently testing it's efficacy on the Ebola virus in Sierra Leone.
http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/ozone-therapy-ebola-trial/2014/09/24/id/596709/
http://www.ozonize.co.za/blog/ebola...ination....ozone-can-play-a-role#.VEZKI_nohSk

The results would be interesting.

 

[Yorksman]

So your knowledge is gleaned secondhand from your wife.

As opposed to believing whatever nonesense you choose to write you mean?

No, it is gleaned from the same publications that she reads. In addition, one of my colleagues is a major plant pathologist and one of my areas of study is the effect of infectious diseases from the zoonoses of domesticated animals in the demography at the end of the LBK in the neolithic. I know how to go about the process of getting myself informed and I don't find what you write you credible source material.

Your assertion earlier that a footspa provides a mechanism by which ozone can be introduced into the bloodstream:

The halflife is more like 5 minutes which is more than enough time to get into the bloodstream.

simply demonstrates that your knowledge of human biology is woefully inadequate.

You don't sound like a husband with concerns for his wife's welfare, one who has lavished her with care and attention for months or one who is overjoyed at her recovery. You don't sound like a happy man. Rather, you sound like someone who is irritated.

So, I don't believe you, not a word of it. Why should that bother you? Surely your wife's health should be what is important.

 

[Yorksman]

The results would be interesting.

Nigeria was declared Ebola Free yesterday. I guess you are going to claim credit for that too.

 

[oomhenry]

No, it is gleaned from the same publications that she reads. In addition, one of my colleagues is a major plant pathologist and one of my areas of study is the effect of infectious diseases from the zoonoses of domesticated animals in the demography at the end of the LBK in the neolithic.

Your assertion earlier that a footspa provides a mechanism by which ozone can be introduced into the bloodstream:



simply demonstrates that your knowledge of human biology is woefully inadequate.

You don't sound like a husband with concerns for his wife's welfare, one who has lavished her with care and attention for months or one who is overjoyed at her recovery. You don't sound like a happy man. Rather, you sound like someone who is irritated.

Sir you are not a scientist, just a sceptic a very unsure sceptic at that and now you challenge me on everything that I write. It you are very sure of yourself, you will take me up on my bet. I mean come on 100 to 1 odds. What is the worst possible outcome? Just that you might be a few pounds richer or someone can lose a limb, but that would have happened anyway, so no harm is done. Or you are a few pounds poorer and someone has saved a limb.

Do you want me to sing Hallelujahs here. Sure I could have done that but then people would have wondered why I am doing that. So I chose to lay the facts on the table.

As for the 5 minute half life, I used a higher temp than 35 degrees and I extrapolated it from tables, but remember that a 5 minute halflife does not mean that all ozone disintegrated in 5 minutes. Only half of it is gone. What's left is still enough to work it's magic.

 

[oomhenry]

Nigeria was declared Ebola Free yesterday. I guess you are going to claim credit for that too.

Why should I claim credit. You seem to be getting p!ssed off. Hehehehehe Sir prove me wrong and I will leave the board in shame.

You seem to have the knack to quote the mundane stuff from the posts in which I nailed you and ignore the whoppers. Is that deliberate and do you have a hidden agenda or are you just ignorant?

This thread is turning out to be an argument between you and me. I wonder what the other members are thinking about this??

 

[Yorksman]

I can see that you are interested more in how people perceive you than you are in your own wife's diabetic foot ulcers.

 

[oomhenry]

I can see that you are interested more in how people perceive you than you are in your own wife's diabetic foot ulcers.

You are wrong. I just want to get the message across, but you are carrying on as if I am promoting the smoking of cannabis to get the ulcers to heal. Why is that? I am not very good at doing the Socrates thing, so you can expect some fireworks when I talk about something that I am passionate about.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Before I retired I ran a small cleaning business and had access to professional zone generators and I was taught that ozone was far from safe being highly unstable and in very small quantities can cause serious respiratory failure, something I would not wish on anyone having suffered it not from using ozone but from the use of solvents again used commercially.

Ozone as I recall could only be used in closely controlled, highly regulated conditions and respiratory masks HAD to be worn at all times due to the dangers of lung damage. It was used in cases of fire damage as a method of removing the smell, the house needed to be vacated and had to be sealed off, no one was allowed anywhere near it until the area had been properly ventilated after treatment.

I would therefore imagine that is why it is not recommended for home use by patients.

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html
Quote from above site:
How is Ozone Harmful?
The same chemical properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic material outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic material that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs (see - "Ozone and Your Health"). Relatively low amounts can cause chest pain, coughing, shortness of breath, and, throat irritation. Ozone may also worsen chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma and compromise the ability of the body to fight respiratory infections. People vary widely in their susceptibility to ozone. Healthy people, as well as those with respiratory difficulty, can experience breathing problems when exposed to ozone. Exercise during exposure to ozone causes a greater amount of ozone to be inhaled, and increases the risk of harmful respiratory effects. Recovery from the harmful effects can occur following short-term exposure to low levels of ozone, but health effects may become more damaging and recovery less certain at higher levels or from longer exposures (US EPA, 1996a, 1996b).

Manufacturers and vendors of ozone devices often use misleading terms to describe ozone. Terms such as "energized oxygen" or "pure air" suggest that ozone is a healthy kind of oxygen. Ozone is a toxic gas with vastly different chemical and toxicological properties from oxygen. Several federal agencies have established health standards or recommendations to limit human exposure to ozone. These exposure limits are summarized in Table 1.

I dont know anything about the home type ozone air cleaners other than I wouldnt have one in my house

 

[Sid Bonkers]

ps another link you may care to read http://www.air-purifier-power.com/ozone-air-purification-danger.html

Or just google ozone dangers

 

[oomhenry]

How many deaths have been caused by ozone compared to insulin and metformin for example? If my memory serves me correctly, I think it is four. 4 deaths in a 100 years is a good batting average. How many hundreds died and still die every year from metformin or insulin or any other prescription drug for that matter? Yet that is okay, because the authorities gave these drugs their stamp of approval. Therefore it is safe?? What is wrong with this picture?