Nightmare diabetes appointment

AndBreathe

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AndBreathe, if you look at the Christiansen presentation on Jenny Ruhl's Blood Sugar 101 page, those numbers are just perfectly normal blood sugars. That's what normal blood sugars are. The body isn't following a rulebook (as I understand it). Those include the perfectly normal blood sugars that we all long for. - And maybe, if you like to try Dr B, maybe can even get back ourselves.

Oh, I know my numbers are absolutely fine, and probably experienced by lots of ordinary people every day; albeit, they probably haven't measured them, but having "achieved" a T2 label along the way these numbers are suddenly viewed, by selected others, in a very different and almost terrified way. it's really frustrating.
 
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Nuthead

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Got my first appointment with diabetes consultant on 8th Jan. Last week th DN made the app after giving up with my questions and answers. As a T2 on insulin, the DNs "we don't normally do that for a T2" reply to a change of insulin question did not impress. I left feeling a bit like.........
stupid.gif
 
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LucySW

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The upshot of all of this is that I now have a third insulin - Insuman Basal - which I've used before. I'm going to use it as my evening basal for a few months to see if its peak can stop the overnight highs, but continue with Levemir as my morning basal and Apidra as my bolus. I think it will take a bit of trial and error, so I might be exasperated for a while, but at least we're trying something! If it doesn't work, I'll be back there insisting on Tressiba, but my case will have been strengthened by having tried everything reasonable. So a reasonable result in the end, but a flippin' nightmare to go through. .

Aarghhh. Well, actually you wanted that Insuman for the night time. So a good result, if you had to fight first.

Dr B says that if you want to use NPH as a basal (I have Insulatard which is also NPH), you have to take it three times a day. It's very clear in my case that it only works for 8 hrs - from the Libre, of course!

My Metformin began to work straight away. BS down from 6.5 (worry, fear) to 4.5 ( happiness). But then I over-reached myself and went from one tablet to two after two days rather than the recommended week. That was unpleasant. If anyone's seen the Doctor Who episode about the Adipose (with Donna), that's how I felt all night and most of the next day.
Slowly building back to normal eating now after a day unable to eat .,
 
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tim2000s

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Woah Lucy! Lots of repeated posts! From what I can see, the evidence that is available tends to point to Hba1C being normal, but post prandial highs being the freater issue, rather than a consistent level at around 6.5 being a problem. Having said that, most of the evidence isn't really that helpful, but as a T1, I don't want to spend all day everyday testing and eating glucose tablets.
 
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ConradJ

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[QUOTE="LucySW, post: 702376, member: 113749"They only check for eyes and feet. There is so much more ...[/QUOTE]

They should also be checking kidney function at least once per year (urea, creatinine, etc.):

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/15-essentials

If not, call your surgery and get a urine sample pot (usually it should be done first thing in the morning, which also helps the surgery (they can get the sample off to the labs with the morning pickups).

It is likely that if you've developed one complication, you have also been developing others - quietly, silently and insidiously in the background, of course; that's what makes diabetes so **** deceptive: you can 'live the life of Riley' for years and not suffer a single complication, then all of a sudden you start losing sensations or you get polyuria (frequent urination), erectile dysfunction :nailbiting:, etc., etc.

The printed and online info I've read about retinopathy have pointed to this and hence my determination to turn things around in a life-remaining manner.
 
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Brunneria

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Ian, that's nonsense! You CANNOT hypo when not taking any drugs. No insulin has passed your .. well, not lips, nor anything else. It just shows they are looking at you as a typical Type 1. Don't fall for it!

Yes he can.

If I, a type 2, diet, exercise and no meds, can hypo, then anyone can.

It may take special and unusual circumstances, but it CAN happen.
 
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Nuthead

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Got my first appointment with diabetes consultant on 8th Jan. Last week th DN made the app after giving up with my questions and answers. As a T2 on insulin, the DNs "we don't normally do that for a T2" reply to a change of insulin question did not impress. I left feeling a bit like.........
View attachment 9263
 

LucySW

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It is likely that if you've developed one complication, you have also been developing others - quietly, silently and insidiously in the background, of course; that's what makes diabetes so **** deceptive: you can 'live the life of Riley' for years and not suffer a single complication, then all of a sudden you start losing sensations or you get polyuria (frequent urination), erectile dysfunction :nailbiting:, etc., etc.

The printed and online info I've read about retinopathy have pointed to this and hence my determination to turn things around in a life-remaining manner.

Yes, absolutely. It's why I'm so inspired by Dr B. I haven't got my eye screening results back yet, but I know I have slight night blindness in the last two/three years. And the tiredness and brain fog of high blood sugar I've had for five years or so .. and all those things in your earlier life that suddenly look like pointers to high blood sugars years ago. I'll never know how long I've had high blood sugars, but that's why I'm trying to get normal ones. And I'll explain that when challenged until a consultant sees that I do manage my sugars carefully and tightly.
 
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noblehead

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Dear Noblehead, You are the voice of calm reason always (it really cheers me up), but Smidge's sudden highs and lows were in a context, viz., after her consultant had insisted she cut her night-time basal when she had seen from her Libre scan results that the problem was not enough basal at night. End result chaos. She's been trying to sort out more basal for ages.

Edit: um, insisted that she cut her basal at night when the problem was too little.


I'm well aware of the problems that Smidge has been experiencing of late Lucy, and I do hope she finds a solution to it all, both Smidge and I joined the forum around the same time and she makes a good contribution to the forum, just sometimes when things go astray we should be open to all suggestions, hence my earlier posts on the subject.
 
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LucySW

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Yes he can.

If I, a type 2, diet, exercise and no meds, can hypo, then anyone can.

It may take special and unusual circumstances, but it CAN happen.
In a medical-type emergency? Please elucidate Ya Magnifica.
 

Brunneria

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In a medical-type emergency? Please elucidate Ya Magnifica.
:D
Decades of reactive hypoglycaemia.
Ages 3 yrs to... um... mid 40s, when I became type 2.

Still get them occasionally, but the lower I carb, the milder and rarer they are.

And I'm not for a sec claiming that mine are on the same scale as a type 1 hypo. But they're real, and they're hellish. And surprisingly common. And usually totally ignored/rejected/undiagnosed by non-specialist HCPs.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...-on-reactive-hypoglycaemia.65454/#post-648596

Sorry folks - didn't intend to derail the thread!
Please return to your normal programming! :D
 

LucySW

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I get you. Yes, my husband is hypoglycemic and it is, truly, hell. Poor you.
 
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smidge

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Thanks for all the comments everyone. I've managed to order two JuniorStar pens from Sanoffi today so they should arrive in the next few days. So I don't have to use a full unit pen 'like everyone else'. LOL.

Started on the Insuman last night but it wasn't a roaring success - in fact it was a dismal failure. BG up at 12 in the early hours - brought down with an Apidra correction, followed by a series of minor lows all day. Still, it's very early days. I'll keep at it for a few days and if it's not working I'll change the timing of the Insuman to before bed rather than tea time. If that doesn't fix it, I'll go back to a tea time shot of Levemir but add a small before bed shot of Insuman in addition, so plenty to try.

Smidge
 

donnellysdogs

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It doesn't matter at what level you feel low etc. consultants, dieticians and dsn's do not like to see hypo's and will always pick up on those in preference to any high levels.
 
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elaine77

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From what I can see, the evidence that is available tends to point to Hba1C being normal, but post prandial highs being the freater issue, rather than a consistent level at around 6.5 being a problem.


Really?? My DSN says the opposite! She says spikes are nothing to get overly concerned about so long as the levels are back down to normal before u have your next meal! She even told me not to test my blood post prandial as its not important and to only test morning, night and before main meals!
 
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drahawkins_1973

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Oh it's been one of those days! I had an appointment at the hospital with my consultant this afternoon - I was dreading it as a recent week with a sensor attached had shown lots of high spikes and a handful of lows - lows mainly in the mid to high 3s with two in the high 2s; highs up to 16 but mostly 11 to 14. Overall, a tiny proportion of my time was spent below target maybe 2 or 3% but more than 25% of my time above target - mostly overnight. So, I wanted to discuss how we tackle the blippiness without compromising the HbA1c - basically how do we start trying to smooth out the profile. I knew that would be a challenging discussion and I expected the diabetes team to push me to increase my HbA1.

Anyway, almost as soon as I arrived I got called in by a young woman I'd never met. She introduced herself as the dietician and said she wanted to talk me through the results and her and her colleagues' observations. I can't say I was really happy to talk to a dietician, but I thought there could be no real harm in it. She wanted to discuss the 'hypos' - I explained I didn't see most of them as hypos as they were above 3.4mmol - she said 'even so' and continued on about the hypos. I said I wanted help addressing the spikes and would be happy to hear her and her colleagues' observations on the highs. I explained that we needed to sort out the basal as it clearly isn't working and then look at how to control the spikes. She said we needed to address the hypos. She said they had put together an action plan and that their views on the way forward differed from mine. She talked a bit about carb counting and I explained I low-carb. She said she'd noticed my carbs were very low and addressing this was part of the plan. I said 'Brilliant! I have been looking for some specialist help in matching insulin to a low-carb diet'. She said 'I'm just going to ask the consultant to join us'.

To cut a very long story short, the consultant started asking me about not recognising the signs of hypos - apparently the dietician and her colleagues had put in their report that I didn't recognise hypos. I hit the roof. How dare this person who has never met me and has no experience of diabetes make such a comment. I explained fully to the consultant when I correct 'hypos' and when I leave them; what I base my judgement on e.g. amount of active insulin and so on. Consultant then apologised for the dietician comments and said he was very happy with my hypo awareness and the way I deal with hypos and would put that on my notes in response to the dietician's comments. By then I was completely furious though, so I explained how frustrating I find it to deal with people who do not have diabetes and have only experience of diabetics with very high HbA1cs and that I have a right to expect help with flattening my profile within a good HbA1c. The consultant agreed!

The upshot of all of this is that I now have a third insulin - Insuman Basal - which I've used before. I'm going to use it as my evening basal for a few months to see if its peak can stop the overnight highs, but continue with Levemir as my morning basal and Apidra as my bolus. I think it will take a bit of trial and error, so I might be exasperated for a while, but at least we're trying something! If it doesn't work, I'll be back there insisting on Tressiba, but my case will have been strengthened by having tried everything reasonable. So a reasonable result in the end, but a flippin' nightmare to go through. Really stressful.

On the way out, I had a final sharp exchange with a nurse who told me that there isn't a half unit pen for Insuman so I'd have to have a full unit pen 'like everyone else' or she could give me Humalin I instead as it's 'exactly the same, just a different make'. I said 'you've never used insulin have you?' and don't worry about the half unit pen I'll get a JuniorStar direct from Sanoffi - that takes Insuman cartridges'.

I never did get to see the dietician's plan - the consultant told her he didn't think it would be suitable - and I'm sorting out my own pens with the supplier - so exactly what value did this team of DSNs and dieticians add? It felt like a very expensive job creation scheme. Thank goodness it's over!

Smidge
Oh Smidge poor you. I do hope your new insulin regime finally helps. What a pants day. Good luck.
Andrea


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
 
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LucySW

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Still, it's very early days. I'll keep at it for a few days and if it's not working I'll change the timing of the Insuman to before bed rather than tea time. If that doesn't fix it, I'll go back to a tea time shot of Levemir but add a small before bed shot of Insuman in addition, so plenty to try.
Yes, remember the time lag. Are you shaking it properly? Dr B's homespun again (I'm sorry to be such a bore but I find his detail helpful) : v imp to make sure it's properly blended to avoid any random delivery, which happens anyway with NPH because of what the isophane does. I shake my pen (slowly) 30 times, not the 10 times I was told.

Best of luck Smidge, after such a horrid time.
 
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bookmite

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It makes my sugar rich blood boil when these so called professionals, if indeed they were qualified:p look down their noses and assume we are completely stupid . Treat us with contempt, and fail to deliver the service they are paid to deliver.

It's very frustrating for us as diabetics to not be able to given the opportunity of negotiating our treatment. We are constantly fighting " national guidelines " even if gp's were sympathetic, they can't go against policy.

So here we are with yet another patient having to decide there own treatment, its fundamentally wrong. But what options do we have ?

Rant over and I hope you sort out your doses and reduce your profile, then you can go back and tell them where to stick their diet sheets.

Good luck
 
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logindetails

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Really?? My DSN says the opposite! She says spikes are nothing to get overly concerned about so long as the levels are back down to normal before u have your next meal! She even told me not to test my blood post prandial as its not important and to only test morning, night and before main meals!
Your DSN is wrong... and even wronger :eek:
 
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