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Now the X-PERT advice is low carb, high fat

NoCrbs4Me said:
They may be on to something:

"We have also identified that eating carbohydrate increases blood glucose levels, which then increases the levels of a hormone called insulin in the blood."

Perhaps a Nobel prize in medicine is in their future.
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WOW - amazing - I wonder how they worked that one out (especially since it was pretty well known donkey's years ago..).?? :bag::banghead:

Robbity
 
Brunneria said:
It's a step in the right direction.
Albeit a smaller step than I would like.

I wonder how long it will take to filter through to HCPs on the coal face?
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Our practice nurses in our health centre do all the diabetes stuff, and also present our local X-Pert courses. I saw my nurse the other day for my review and told her (again) about my diet. She told me Trudi Deakin had recently been in the area training her and other nurses in readiness for the next local XPert course. She told me about Trudi's conversion to eating more fat and how they were going to promote this in future. So that is one very good thing at least.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Our practice nurses in our health centre do all the diabetes stuff, and also present our local X-Pert courses. I saw my nurse the other day for my review and told her (again) about my diet. She told me Trudi Deakin had recently been in the area training her and other nurses in readiness for the next local XPert course. She told me about Trudi's conversion to eating more fat and how they were going to promote this in future. So that is one very good thing at least.
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Definitely!

I know that I am fairly extreme on the LCHF scale - but I wouldn't be, if my body felt this good with any of the other eating patterns I have tried.

The worry I have is that fat and carbs are a seesaw. The extremes seem to work quite well for weight loss, and the lower carb certainly works for BG control! But what happens to people who have, for decades, been told to stuff carbs and avoid fat, when they are told they can eat fat? They gorge. But do they also take on board that the carbs must be cut enough to balance?

And, depending on metabolism, the balance can be very hard to achieve.

I certainly find it MUCH easier to be VLC than to phaff around with poxy little half slices of bread, and two tsps of rice...

I know, I'm nitpicking.

This IS a step forward, and I'm pleased about it.

I'm just wondering if the 'if you increase fats, then you MUST proportionally decrease carbs' will sink in.
It is a tricky message to get right.
 
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@Brunneria you are totally right. Fats and carbs together are lethal, for weight gain, cholesterol, and general well being. The carbs have to be reduced if the fats are increased, and the balance is crucial and different for everyone of us. I hope this message will get through. Fingers crossed.
 
Brunneria said:
Definitely!

I know that I am fairly extreme on the LCHF scale - but I wouldn't be, if my body felt this good with any of the other eating patterns I have tried.

The worry I have is that fat and carbs are a seesaw. The extremes seem to work quite well for weight loss, and the lower carb certainly works for BG control! But what happens to people who have, for decades, been told to stuff carbs and avoid fat, when they are told they can eat fat? They gorge. But do they also take on board that the carbs must be cut enough to balance?

And, depending on metabolism, the balance can be very hard to achieve.

I certainly find it MUCH easier to be VLC than to phaff around with poxy little half slices of bread, and two tsps of rice...

I know, I'm nitpicking.

This IS a step forward, and I'm pleased about it.

I'm just wondering if the 'if you increase fats, then you MUST proportionally decrease carbs' will sink in.
It is a tricky message to get right.
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Great post!
 
Robbity said:
WOW - amazing - I wonder how they worked that one out (especially since it was pretty well known donkey's years ago..).?? :bag::banghead:

Robbity
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I'm going to mention this ground breaking discovery to by diabetes nurse this week. I don't think she knows about this. It could result in drastic changes to her method of advising type 2 diabetics.
 
Just emailed my practice manager...
 
Email:

Hi Xxx

Your diabetic nurses may or may not be aware of this.. Please can you pass the info on to them.

Dr Trudi Deakin who devised / founded the x-pert diabetes programme years ago stating and training persons that type 2's should eat carbohydrates and substantial carbs at each meal has now revised her courses and has brought out a book that has changed the advice diabetics were given.

It is now eat fat... Minimise carbohydrates. Her new courses are based on minimising carbs in food and eating more fat and protein.

Her book is actually called "eat fat". She was and is the founder of the x-pert programme that GP's have used for type 2's and pre-diabetics and if they aren't aware then please can you forward this info on?

I know I am OTT on diabetes and keeping lean from the foods I eat and my interest in diabetes is also OTT, so apologies for that.
Its just that I do want the best for patients and the NHS.

Sx
 
robert72 said:
If my brain needed 130g carbs a day it must be seriously malfunctioning ;)
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I think you have misinterpreted the post that talked about 130grams Robert, your brain requires 120/130 grams of glucose a day not carbs but most people believe it is better to get that glucose mainly from carbs as the human body has involved to look to carbs first as a source of glucose.

I was given roughly the advice outlined in this book (according to those who have posted its content) from my DSN and dietitian at diagnoses 6 years ago so its hardly new or ground breaking its just that still some people in the NHS are not as up to date with current thinking as perhaps they should be.

When I was using insulin and met an NHS dietitian I was eating roughly 60g carbs a day and after reading my food diary that I had to fill out for her she told that my diet was fine although she suggested I ate a little more oily fish but as I dont actually like oily fish that never happened, but other than that she was happy with my nutritional intake.

Since loosing weight (56lb) I lost a lot of my insulin resistance and now eat considerably more carbs than then, a lot less than 260 g a day I would guess but also a lot more than the 60g or so I was eating on my diet.
 
As the book is not released until the 19th of this month, nobody knows what she is actually saying or do they?
 
Sid Bonkers said:
your brain requires 120/130 grams of glucose a day not carbs but most people believe it is better to get that glucose mainly from carbs as the human body has involved to look to carbs first as a source of glucose.
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The human body won't have evolved (I presume that's what you meant) in a few hundreds of years of high carb availability - been conditioned perhaps, and look where that's got us.

"Most people believe it is better to get that glucose mainly from carbs" - bit of a sweeping generalisation, who are "most people"? The population at large? Diabetics?
 
Sid Bonkers said:
I think you have misinterpreted the post that talked about 130grams Robert, your brain requires 120/130 grams of glucose a day not carbs but most people believe it is better to get that glucose mainly from carbs as the human body has involved to look to carbs first as a source of glucose.

I was given roughly the advice outlined in this book (according to those who have posted its content) from my DSN and dietitian at diagnoses 6 years ago so its hardly new or ground breaking its just that still some people in the NHS are not as up to date with current thinking as perhaps they should be.

When I was using insulin and met an NHS dietitian I was eating roughly 60g carbs a day and after reading my food diary that I had to fill out for her she told that my diet was fine although she suggested I ate a little more oily fish but as I dont actually like oily fish that never happened, but other than that she was happy with my nutritional intake.

Since loosing weight (56lb) I lost a lot of my insulin resistance and now eat considerably more carbs than then, a lot less than 260 g a day I would guess but also a lot more than the 60g or so I was eating on my diet.
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Thanks Sid - I should have said 130g glucose.

Nevertheless, I don't consume 130g of Total Available Glucose per day. I have followed the same diet for 16 months and use myfitnesspal to check my daily macro nutrients.

To include glucose from maximum gluconeogenesis I get 30g from carbs, 35g from protein and 17g from fat. So maximum daily available glucose 82g.

I have not lost weight over the period so it's difficult to see where I could be making the extra glucose from to fit the 130g hypothesis.

Apparently the brain runs very well on ketones when you are keto-adapted. I was reading an article recently that suggested that it only needs 40g glucose when it's also burning ketones. I would suggest that not having enough glucose for the brain means that you would be in a state of hypoglycaemia.
 
catherinecherub said:
As the book is not released until the 19th of this month, nobody knows what she is actually saying or do they?
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“Is a low fat diet good for you?” Most of us will undoubtedly say yes, but is this really the case? It is well documented that the issue of obesity is growing across the world, with it comes the increased risk of:
  • Heart disease, strokes and fatty liver
  • Diabetes (Type 2) — which has rapidly become a global epidemic
  • Some cancers (endometrial, breast, and colon)
There is growing evidence which shows that the popular low fat/high carbohydrate diet is actually a myth and that it may be fuelling the obesity and Type 2 diabetes epidemics. Our researcher have identified that a low carb, high fat lifestyle can beat killer conditions like diabetes, heart disease, epilepsy, cancer and dementia and even slow down the ageing process.

UK-renowned specialist, Dr Trudi Deakin (our Chief Executive ) says that this six-step plan will give fresh hope to people who are overweight or are suffering from a long term health condition. Alow carb/high fat lifestyle can help people to lose weight and curb obesity, diabetes, heart disease and many other health conditions.

We have also identified that eating carbohydrate increases blood glucose levels, which then increases the levels of a hormone called insulin in the blood. This hormone promotes weight gain, prevents weight loss and contributes to other health problems. Eating excess carbs also increases the bad levels of cholesterol particles in the blood. Conditions such as obesity, Type 2 diabetes and heart disease can be prevented if the plan is adopted. Even those who already have the conditions may find that their condition is reversed with the right lifestyle.
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Do we have her definition of a low carb diet?
At the conference last April she said,

"In our experience of delivering structured education, many people reduce their carbohydrate intake to between 130-260 grams per day and are able to improve their diabetes control and body weight as a result. To date, lower carbohydrate diets have not shown any negative effects."

I'll be interested to know what she says in the book. I think @Southport GP was at the conference.

Without the book nobody knows what she has said so it is all speculation.
 
robert72 said:
Thanks Sid - I should have said 130g glucose.

Nevertheless, I don't consume 130g of Total Available Glucose per day. I have followed the same diet for 16 months and use myfitnesspal to check my daily macro nutrients.

To include glucose from maximum gluconeogenesis I get 30g from carbs, 35g from protein and 17g from fat. So maximum daily available glucose 82g.

I have not lost weight over the period so it's difficult to see where I could be making the extra glucose from to fit the 130g hypothesis.

Apparently the brain runs very well on ketones when you are keto-adapted. I was reading an article recently that suggested that it only needs 40g glucose when it's also burning ketones. I would suggest that not having enough glucose for the brain means that you would be in a state of hypoglycaemia.
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Not sure how you worked that out Robert as Its generally accepted the brain requires around 120g glucose to run effectively whether that glucose is converted from carbs or from dietary fat or ketones converted from body fat and if that were the case I would have thought that you would be losing weight.

And of course its not just the brain that needs glucose we also need it to fuel our daily activities dont we. Or have I got that wrong?
 
Sid Bonkers said:
Not sure how you worked that out Robert as Its generally accepted the brain requires around 120g glucose to run effectively whether that glucose is converted from carbs or from dietary fat or ketones converted from body fat and if that were the case I would have thought that you would be losing weight.

And of course its not just the brain that needs glucose we also need it to fuel our daily activities dont we. Or have I got that wrong?
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Ketones are a good alternative fuel to glucose. They don't convert to glucose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies
It may be 'generally accepted' that the brain requires 120g or wasn't that 130g glucose per day, but I, and many other low-carbers would appear to be the exception.
 
So, I spent six weeks last November learning how NOT to control my diabetes!! Fortunately by following the advice on the forum I had already lost 2stone, inches off my waist and have my BG levels under control so I selected the stuff I really wanted to know and ignored the rest. Confusing for those who just started the course though
 
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