Newcastle diet

[Pipp]

I was thankful Prof taylor took time to reply to my email, a dedicated man.

Prof Taylor,
I have followed your work online and 2 video lectures and wish to congratulate you on your research. It is a paradigm shift in T2 diabetes treatment.

I am writing to ask about the fat and protein grams in the new 5 year trial diets.
There is some data that 30g/d with a 10g fat meal will reduce the risk of gallstones and I would value your opinion
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8781321

Roy Taylor <[email protected]>

Dear Jack,

Thank you. In our current 5 year study we are using an 810kcal/day liquid formula diet which contains 12g fat. This is higher in fat than the original diet we used.

If a person is known to have gallstones or is thought to be of high risk, then it would seem wise to follow the pattern reported by Gebhard and colleagues or to have a modestly higher fat intake. The speed of weight loss is not critical – merely the achievement of target weight.

I hope this helps.

Best,

RT

Useful to know, thanks @jack412 . Demonstrates the need to be fully informed by most up to date research info before embarking on any sort of change of diet.

Thank you.

 

[Pipp]

Thank you, I was not aware of the other thread, so glad it has been included here. It is relevant.

 

[jack412]

Haven't you just posted this?
Each shake has 4g of fat, 3 times a day?

optifast is 4.5g per serve or 13.5 plus what ever is in the plate of salad or cooked food...Prof Taylor said it's more fat now, so the 12g said in the email doesn't seem right at first look and it would'nt be 12g a serve 36 g/day or he wouldn't have said extra fat is ok for those at galllstone risk
the old diet was 700cal the new diet is 820 cal, so there is more of something in it.
it's not a big deal to me or I would ask for clarification. .. my guess is it's under 30g and 12g or over 13.5g... plus the extra food

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

Roy Taylor who led the study points out that it is the amount of weight loss that is important, not the speed at which you lose the weight. He states, any regime which will allow you to lose enough weight will suffice. In fact, he says it is probably better to do so more slowly because that way, you are most likely to keep the weight off and not put it back on again.

The idea behind the harsh calorie restriction was to compare it with having a gastric band fitted. It had been noticed that people who had this surgery often suddenly appeared to be 'cured of their diabetes'. The severe diet was just mimicking the surgery but the theory is that substantial weight loss will be effective for most type 2 diabetics.

"Hence, for a given individual with type 2 diabetes, reducing the liver and pancreas fat content below his or her personal trigger levels would be expected to result in a release from the fatty acid–mediated dysfunction. Individual tolerance of different degrees of fat exposure vary, and understanding this liposusceptibility will underpin the future understanding of genetically determined risk in any given environment. However, this should not obscure the central point: If a person has type 2 diabetes, there is more fat in the liver and pancreas than he or she can cope with."

The question is, how do you target weight loss so precisely? Starving yourself is one way and as Taylor notes, "... involuntary food shortage, such as a result of war, results in a sharp fall in type 2 diabetes prevalence" but for most of us a determined effort to lose above 15% of body weight, even if it takes months, will do.

And of course, don't put it back on.

"How long will diabetes stay away after weight loss? Long-term normal blood glucose control in previously diabetic individuals after bariatric surgery demonstrates that diabetes does not recur for up to 10 years, unless substantial weight gain occurs"

@fionamarie & @Yorksman , there is for me an interesting issue. I am working out every day & my weight is seems to be creeping up. I've lost 44lbs but have stalled out in losing more, than 44-47 lbs. Does the severity of the ND clean the liver an pancreas or is it just an overall weight loss that fixes of the diabetic symptoms (in your opinions)?

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

I was thankful Prof taylor took time to reply to my email, a dedicated man.

Prof Taylor,
I have followed your work online and 2 video lectures and wish to congratulate you on your research. It is a paradigm shift in T2 diabetes treatment.

I am writing to ask about the fat and protein grams in the new 5 year trial diets.
There is some data that 30g/d with a 10g fat meal will reduce the risk of gallstones and I would value your opinion
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8781321

Roy Taylor <[email protected]>

Dear Jack,

Thank you. In our current 5 year study we are using an 810kcal/day liquid formula diet which contains 12g fat. This is higher in fat than the original diet we used.

If a person is known to have gallstones or is thought to be of high risk, then it would seem wise to follow the pattern reported by Gebhard and colleagues or to have a modestly higher fat intake. The speed of weight loss is not critical – merely the achievement of target weight.

I hope this helps.

Best,

RT

@jack412

Thanks for posting the email from Roy Taylor . Its answered my questions.

 

[Yorksman]

Does the severity of the ND clean the liver an pancreas or is it just an overall weight loss that fixes of the diabetic symptoms (in your opinions)?

It's overall weight loss and it's probably better to lose it more slowly as that way you are more likely to keep it off. The severity of the diet was to mimmick having a gastric band fitted, that's all but they decided it was total weight loss rather than speed of weight loss.

However, in his medscape article, Taylor does make the following statement:

"The extent of weight loss required to reverse type 2 diabetes is much greater than conventionally advised. A clear distinction must be made between weight loss that improves glucose control but leaves blood glucose levels abnormal and weight loss of sufficient degree to normalize pancreatic function."

Type 2 diabetes: etiology and reversibility.

We all hit a wall with weight loss, all you can do is slowly but surely work your way through it. Again Taylor gives some advice:

"The role of physical activity must be considered. Increased levels of daily activity bring about decreases in liver fat stores, and a single bout of exercise substantially decreases both de novo lipogenesis and plasma VLDL. Several studies demonstrated that calorie control combined with exercise is much more successful than calorie restriction alone. However, exercise programs alone produce no weight loss for overweight middle-aged people. The necessary initial major loss of body weight demands a substantial reduction in energy intake. After weight loss, steady weight is most effectively achieved by a combination of dietary restriction and physical activity. Both aerobic and resistance exercise are effective. The critical factor is sustainability."

What he is talking about here are changes to your blood chemistry. It's not directly related to losing weight, as in burning off fat, but rather the way fats are processed in the blood. It will stop you laying down more and, if you eat less, you will continue to burn off what you have.

But remember, when you are overweight, you use more calories to carry the extra weight around. As you lose weight, your natural daily patterns are doing less work because you have less weight to physically move. That's why people hit a wall which is in effect, a balance between input of energy and output of energy.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

It's overall weight loss and it's probably better to lose it more slowly as that way you are more likely to keep it off. The severity of the diet was to mimmick having a gastric band fitted, that's all but they decided it was total weight loss rather than speed of weight loss.

However, in his medscape article, Taylor does make the following statement:

"The extent of weight loss required to reverse type 2 diabetes is much greater than conventionally advised. A clear distinction must be made between weight loss that improves glucose control but leaves blood glucose levels abnormal and weight loss of sufficient degree to normalize pancreatic function."

Type 2 diabetes: etiology and reversibility.

We all hit a wall with weight loss, all you can do is slowly but surely work your way through it. Again Taylor gives some advice:

"The role of physical activity must be considered. Increased levels of daily activity bring about decreases in liver fat stores, and a single bout of exercise substantially decreases both de novo lipogenesis and plasma VLDL. Several studies demonstrated that calorie control combined with exercise is much more successful than calorie restriction alone. However, exercise programs alone produce no weight loss for overweight middle-aged people. The necessary initial major loss of body weight demands a substantial reduction in energy intake. After weight loss, steady weight is most effectively achieved by a combination of dietary restriction and physical activity. Both aerobic and resistance exercise are effective. The critical factor is sustainability."

What he is talking about here are changes to your blood chemistry. It's not directly related to losing weight, as in burning off fat, but rather the way fats are processed in the blood. It will stop you laying down more and, if you eat less, you will continue to burn off what you have.

But remember, when you are overweight, you use more calories to carry the extra weight around. As you lose weight, your natural daily patterns are doing less work because you have less weight to physically move. That's why people hit a wall which is in effect, a balance between input of energy and output of energy.

@Yorksman Thanks for the input & encouragement. I'll just keep cycling and pulling lots of weights at the gym. I've had moments where it feels like I am close to getting rid of the fats in my pancreas and liver & then I get a bout of neuropathy, but I'll keep at the extreme exercise. I am a model of fitness for other parishioners at my local church that suffer from T2 but literally just blow the disease off! My BMI is just down to a shade over 25. I was a BMI of 30.3 I just have to keep going (I have a 12 year old that expects that I will keep going & that I am going to pay for her medical school~ LOL!)

 

[Yorksman]

I've had moments where it feels like I am close to getting rid of the fats in my pancreas and liver & then I get a bout of neuropathy, but I'll keep at the extreme exercise.

I still get tingles in my feet but there again, I also had them before I got diabetes. It's a side effect of a blood pressure pill I take. In my case, it is due to constricted blood capillaries. There are many types of neuropathy of which diabetic neuropathy is one. Diabetic neuropathy can take one of several forms but the one they test for most regularly is the loss of sensation in the foot, where the nerve endings have become damaged. The danger of this is that you can pick up an injury but, not sensing the pain, you don't know you have it and then it becomes infected. Lots and lots of people think they have diabetc complications because of all sorts of things they wouldn't have batted an eyelid at before they were told that they had diabetes. Then they worry about everything. Just ask your GP if you are worried.

The weight loss is very good but don't overdo they exercise! You don't want to be overstressing your joints and doing yourself a mischief. Cycling is a wonderful energy sapping, metabolic rate improving but low impact form of exercise. It ranks with swimming as something diabetics ought to be encouraged to do. Try altering your food intake rather than adding a couple of extra Kg onto the weights.

You won't know if you have given your pancreas a thorough degrease for sure because unlike medical laboratories, we can't test our insulin production. We only ever test our glood glucose. I ate all the wrong things over Christmas, mince pies, christmas pud, chocolates etc but my early morning readings always stayed below 6.0. Now I am back to my usual diet, I am near the 5.0 mark. Something is keeping my BG levels low other than just restricting the carb intake. I assume I have improved my insulin production or insulin sensitivity, but without specific tests, I cannot say for sure. However, as long as it remains like it is, I am not doing myself any more damage.

And that's what you really have to aim for, make sure that you are keeping things nicely under control. Eventually, you can get to a situation where you just take an early morning reading and the diet and exercise thing has just become part of your daily routine and something you do without even thinking about it.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

I still get tingles in my feet but there again, I also had them before I got diabetes. It's a side effect of a blood pressure pill I take. In my case, it is due to constricted blood capillaries. There are many types of neuropathy of which diabetic neuropathy is one. Diabetic neuropathy can take one of several forms but the one they test for most regularly is the loss of sensation in the foot, where the nerve endings have become damaged. The danger of this is that you can pick up an injury but, not sensing the pain, you don't know you have it and then it becomes infected. Lots and lots of people think they have diabetic complications because of all sorts of things they wouldn't have batted an eyelid at before they were told that they had diabetes. Then they worry about everything. Just ask your GP if you are worried.

The weight loss is very good but don't overdo they exercise! You don't want to be over stressing your joints and doing yourself a mischief. Cycling is a wonderful energy sapping, metabolic rate improving but low impact form of exercise. It ranks with swimming as something diabetics ought to be encouraged to do. Try altering your food intake rather than adding a couple of extra Kg onto the weights.

You won't know if you have given your pancreas a thorough degrease for sure because unlike medical laboratories, we can't test our insulin production. We only ever test our glood glucose. I ate all the wrong things over Christmas, mince pies, christmas pud, chocolates etc but my early morning readings always stayed below 6.0. Now I am back to my usual diet, I am near the 5.0 mark. Something is keeping my BG levels low other than just restricting the carb intake. I assume I have improved my insulin production or insulin sensitivity, but without specific tests, I cannot say for sure. However, as long as it remains like it is, I am not doing myself any more damage.

And that's what you really have to aim for, make sure that you are keeping things nicely under control. Eventually, you can get to a situation where you just take an early morning reading and the diet and exercise thing has just become part of your daily routine and something you do without even thinking about it.

@Yorksman the avatar I am showing is where I cycle. Living in Southern California does have some benefits! LOL! Its easier to get out and get exercise. We get very little rain (we're in a drought). Every other day I am cycling 15-17 miles. On the alternate days its lifting weights to become more buff. The wife likes the athletic look (I have no idea why!) Actually I am trying to encourage a co worker that lives in Reading Berkshire to get more exercise. His recent A1C was over 8.1% BG. The first time I was at the endo's office I saw a sign 8% A1C = potential blindness!

. I just managed to find a couple of new pairs of athletic shoes from Amazon that not only look nice but fit perfectly. I've gotten into a habit of wearing them with thick socks when normally around the house or cycling. I do love my cycling head phones on and zone out to some music. During the week there's not much traffic on the bike path & the scenery can be stunning. When I am on my bike I can go nuts and yes its low impact. The weights are just that too. 8 machines / positions with 3 sets of 10 reps. No silly record breaking dead lifts just steady weight lifting.I have a mental picture of myself looking like Mark Spitz with a set of 6 pack abs. I feel confident that that'll clear the diabetes away. I am due to go into getting an A1C check shortly. Thanks too for the other pointer about my weight loss in that I've already lost 20% of weight thus I must make a more concerted effort to portion control my food now that I'm 20% lighter! BTW we must encourage everyone to do better with their diabetes!

 

[Yorksman]

@Yorksman the avatar I am showing is where I cycle. Living in Southern California does have some benefits! LOL! Its easier to get out and get exercise.

We have some very nice long beach promenades, but the weather is usually either damp or windy. in which case the waves break over the promenade. When the weather is warm and sunny, the promenades are full of people making cycling somewhat difficult.

But we do have some excellent cycleways, mostly disused railway lines.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

The photo looks great, where is it? I knew of a cyclist in the UK that rode frequently in the winter. He had broken teeth through cycling. The fast cycling with hot air expelled and breathing in cold air over his teeth over time it cracks them up. So I am grateful that for the benefits of weather that I enjoy. I know I'd have been more fitter quicker had my knees been in better shape but I can no longer run distances that I did. Power to @paulins that she could run the 5-6 Kms / day that she continues to do. I am sure now she's gotten fully away from T2.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

I thought I'd update this blog for the sake of it. I weighed in yesterday at 204.5 lbs or 14 Stone 8 ½ lbs . I've found an old neighbor who's overweight and I drag him along to the gym to lift weights. He pushes me incredibly hard on our bike rides and he's a good bike mechanic! For new T2 sufferers I am currently doing a 15-16 mile bike ride every other day and weights in a gym on the in between days.

I 've checked my BMI too and I am shade under 25! Yea!. My clothes are fitting better and I've a bunch of money to spend on getting my suits adjusted to my new physique. Rarely now do I have potatoes on my dinner plate more like cauliflower with chicken tikka marsala sauce, or from the night before grilled salmon with cauliflower. These are small sacrifices to live with out symptoms.