Type 1: Prescription fine

[mike@conisbrough]

... snip ...

I actually agree with your stance on the whole issue , @mike@conisbrough, but I do think that last post was inaccurate as to what the poster was saying, and unnecessarily abrupt.

Signy

Sorry if my straight talking isn't to your liking, in future I will flower them up with lots of fluffy words that add nothing to the post.

 

[Heathenlass]

Sorry if my straight talking isn't to your liking, in future I will flower them up with lots of fluffy words that add nothing to the post.

It's not your brevity that I objected to - the word that I substituted " abrupt" for, was " rude " .

Signy

 

[donnellysdogs]

Actually out of all of this I wonder how the process of penalty charges from all these people in total equates to the cost of managing the admin and phone calls etc..

I hope that it is actually effective and cost efficient for them to do all the cards, phonecalls, paperwork etc.
Its costing a lot of money compared to telling GP's to have a line on their prescription forms (that they can easily adjust) to say "exempt" and this would be done on disgnosis or annual review. A year to action would be all it would take for all critical illnesses that need annual reviews and are exempt. Easy peasy to programme on our annual review paperwork the GP's or DSN's have to send out or do on the computer.

But then this is really too efficient for the NHS I think...

 

[jane67]

Yes it's plastic credit card size with name and valid from and until date on it. I've always had a reminder sent a month before renewal date.

I have a card and it is automatically renewed every 5 years and the new one comes though the post a few weeks before the old one runs out.

 

[angelicbaby]

Why should the surgery or pharmacist be responsible for your prescription?

If the pharmacist asks you and you say No does that mean he can refuse to issue the prescription until you have paid for it?

Get real, your prescription, your declaration, your signature - your responsibility !!

Where has I said the Pharmacist should be responsible for my prescription? What I am saying is that when a check up appointment is made at the surgery, if you have a medically exempt condition, the surgery could check that you know that you have to have this card - after all, you collect the form required from them. Also the Pharmacist could ask whether you have this card.

I don't know whether you have read this thread from the start, but many of the posters have been landed with a hefty fine and it appears that even medical practitioners are not aware of the procedures. I guess what I am asking for is a clear, concise communication from the NHS to ensure that everyone knows what they need to do.

You may argue that ignorance of people is not the NHS's fault, however giving as much information as you can to people is much better than berating them for their error.

 

[mike@conisbrough]

Where has I said the Pharmacist should be responsible for my prescription? What I am saying is that when a check up appointment is made at the surgery, if you have a medically exempt condition, the surgery could check that you know that you have to have this card - after all, you collect the form required from them. Also the Pharmacist could ask whether you have this card.

I don't know whether you have read this thread from the start, but many of the posters have been landed with a hefty fine and it appears that even medical practitioners are not aware of the procedures. I guess what I am asking for is a clear, concise communication from the NHS to ensure that everyone knows what they need to do.

You may argue that ignorance of people is not the NHS's fault, however giving as much information as you can to people is much better than berating them for their error.

How can people claim ignorance when they sign a declaration?

 

[dannyw]

Although it is all of our responsibility to check information we are signing, I do feel that Diabetes UK would be wise to include informing all GP practices, and pharmacists of the new crackdown and involve them in highlighting the issue. Every time a Diabetic or other exemption condition is made, the Surgery could ask the patient whether they have the relevant exemption card/certificate and the dispensing chemist could ask to see the card or confirm that the patient has one. Instead of us all complaining about the unfairness of it all, we would be all wiser to try and assist each other in getting the relevant paperwork in order.

I agree a greater degree of awareness is needed but let's face facts, the vast majority are not being fined. The vast majority have a current exemption certificate. The information must be getting out there somehow. It's also not practical to put the onus on the writer of the prescription. If you were in receipt of welfare benefits, would you want your doc to know ? Would you provide proof ? I do feel sorry for those affected and I'll say again that I don't agree with the fines but it is just not fair to continually try to blame others. Every time you collect a prescription you sign a declaration stating you currently hold a valid medical exemption certificate. Because you choose to ignore it or not even read it is not a valid argument.
The fact this thread exists though and has been seen by over 25K people has hopefully prevented many others from making the same mistake.

 

[donnellysdogs]

At end of day who evers responsibilty it is - nhs england could look at their systems and change them. They could easily find a way of just targetting knowing fraudsters.

 

[mike@conisbrough]

At end of day who evers responsibilty it is - nhs england could look at their systems and change them. They could easily find a way of just targetting knowing fraudsters.

Is someone declaring and signing to say they have a valid Exemption Certificate not classed as fraud if they don't have the certificate?

Entitlement to the certificate is not the same as holding the certificate!

TBH those people that have received 'fines' are very lucky that the Newcastle office haven't gone back into the history for that person and taken criminal proceedings for those with multiple 'ignorant declarations'.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Is someone declaring and signing to say they have a valid Exemption Certificate not classed as fraud if they don't have the certificate?

Entitlement to the certificate is not the same as holding the certificate!

TBH those people that have received 'fines' are very lucky that the Newcastle office haven't gone back into the history for that person and taken criminal proceedings for those with multiple 'ignorant declarations'.

I think with persons of any illness that is exempt that there could be a marker put on nhs systems to ensure that these persons are informed.

Yes, they are sugning a document.. But you have to allow for disorders such as dyslexia nowadays too.

We know there are persons that deliverately tick the box as being exempt when they aren't. These are classified in my book as being "knowing" fraudsters.

Other persons in the majority with exempt illnesses are falling into "ignorance" fraudsters. Some people being told incorrectly about prescriptions.. "Just tick the box"
Etc...

At the end of the day NHS England and under the goverent instructions could review their actions and reduce the size of the workforce etc that they are having to employ and readdress where their money is being spent... On the health of the nation and not penalising English patients.

The current system does not work and they should be reviewing it. I don't believe in a free for all cartr blanche free prescription for all. However for the sake of a GP having it on their system and it putting in EXEMPT by a programme on a prescription when it is printed.. They could then reduce the workforce spent on administering penalty charges and spend their money on training new GP's/ nurses etc.

 

[CollieBoy]

mike,
we know your opinions,
now change the record!

 

[angelicbaby]

How can people claim ignorance when they sign a declaration?

Because they have mis-understood the declaration.

It can happen to us all. When I went for a mortgage many years ago, I was one of the "lucky people" sent for a medical. The doctor conducting the medical verified that I had an "innocent heart murmur", the insurance company gained access to my medical records and found that I was diagnosed with this condition as an infant and that investigations at the London Hospital had taken place with me when I was four. They concluded that I had LIED on the form I had signed with them and threw my mortgage into jeopardy. Thankfully, with the help of my mortgage solicitors and my mortgage broker they overturned the decision the insurance company made and I got my home. The insurance company would not accept initially that I was UNAWARE of my condition and therefore was unable to declare it when I was listing medical conditions on their form.

Many people here are testifying that they were not aware that the medical exemption certificate comes in the form of a plastic card. They have misinterpreted the wording and thought that their diagnosis was the certificate - as it can be verified by their medical records. Those of us with a card knows this is incorrect, however when even the staff/medical practitioners at their surgery are unable to explain what a medical certificate is, how do you expect them to know straight of the bat?

 

[dannyw]

I really can't see how anyone can misunderstand "currently hold a medical exemption certificate". Even if you wasn't sure, wouldn't you ask ? I think being told about an innocent heart murmour is completely different. Did you sign the mortgage form to say you didn't have a heart murmour ? I'm not sure how this is even relevant. Perhaps we should ask the question here. Did anyone not understand what they were signing ?

 

[zand]

I really can't see how anyone can misunderstand "currently hold a medical exemption certificate". Even if you wasn't sure, wouldn't you ask ? I think being told about an innocent heart murmour is completely different. Did you sign the mortgage form to say you didn't have a heart murmour ? I'm not sure how this is even relevant. Perhaps we should ask the question here. Did anyone not understand what they were signing ?

Well the first time I got metformin I had already signed the form and had ticked the box to say I was going to pay and was told by the pharmacist that I didn't need to as I was exempt. She scribbled something on it and said it was OK. So I was unknowingly committing fraud then.

The next time I queried it, because it didn't 'seem right' and was told to apply for the exemption certificate, which I did. In the meantime I got another prescription and a form to reclaim the cost when the certificate came through. I never reclaimed the cost so overall I paid for the right amount of prescriptions. If I got fined for that I would be very upset.

 

[Sancho panza]

its easy for some to aportion blame and say you signed it you commited fraud
but its not all that clear cut sometimes and it seems chemists and Drs all have different systems

i never sign or cross any boxes on my prescriptions, i never see that half of the form my drs has an in house pharmacy i put the repeat prescription half in at the drs and two days later collect my meds from the chemist in the bag is the repeat half of the form and thats it the other half is not there!
so im not signing for my meds
and thats the system my drs run
now i hold a medical exemption card but if im not signing is someone commiting fraud

 

[tim2000s]

now i hold a medical exemption card but if im not signing is someone commiting fraud

Not any more!

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Personally I cant really see how it could be much clearer, every time we pick up a prescription we have to tick the box that says "has a valid medical exemption" and then sign the form......Is that not a monthly/bi monthly reminder?

There is even a declaration further down the prescription stating that the info signed for is correct and a consent to the information on the prescription being to sent to the NHS, the DWP and local authorities.

I realise that some may have been eligible for free prescriptions for many years and the criteria may even have changed but you do have to sign every time you pick up your prescription that you have a valid medical exemption certificate.

Thanks to Mike for the pic.

 

[Lex_Ley]

JDRF have recently published some guidance about the certificates and what to do if you've been fined: http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Living_with_diabetes/Free-prescriptions

 

[Lex_Ley]

Personally I cant really see how it could be much clearer, every time we pick up a prescription we have to tick the box that says "has a valid medical exemption" and then sign the form......Is that not a monthly/bi monthly reminder?

There is even a declaration further down the prescription stating that the info signed for is correct and a consent to the information on the prescription being to sent to the NHS, the DWP and local authorities.

I realise that some may have been eligible for free prescriptions for many years and the criteria may even have changed but you do have to sign every time you pick up your prescription that you have a valid medical exemption certificate.

Thanks to Mike for the pic.

I order my prescriptions online and they go from my GP to the pharmacy. I collect the items from the pharmacy. I haven't been asked to sign anything for years.

 

[rubold]

Personally I cant really see how it could be much clearer, every time we pick up a prescription we have to tick the box that says "has a valid medical exemption" and then sign the form......Is that not a monthly/bi monthly reminder?

There is even a declaration further down the prescription stating that the info signed for is correct and a consent to the information on the prescription being to sent to the NHS, the DWP and local authorities.

I realise that some may have been eligible for free prescriptions for many years and the criteria may even have changed but you do have to sign every time you pick up your prescription that you have a valid medical exemption certificate.

Thanks to Mike for the pic.

No, as the point made by Sancha panza a lot of us on repeat prescriptions never see the form to sign. The whole adminstration of the forms is handled by the pharmacist's system. Now that I am over 60 and get free prescriptions anyway, I should still be ticking a box to confirm this and signing the form, but again the form is never offered for me to sign.