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Very troubled over meds

M

MikeZ

Well-Known Member
Messages
132
Location
Southern Oregon USA
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Greetings,

Forgive me if it's bad form to join and start right in with this sort of post.

I will try to be brief. First of all, I never gave much thought to diabetes prior to some symptoms about 8 weeks ago. I fully acknowledge that I was not taking care of myself and I was possibly well on my way to Type 2 regardless of anything that I am about to get into. The following is a very short timeline of how I arrived at this point. The numbers that I will give are US... maybe different than EU????


November 2014 : Went in for blood work. No sign of diabetes. High cholesterol. Doctor put me on 40mg Lipitor a day.
Early Feb 2015: Cholesterol down to acceptable levels
Mid Feb 2015: Started peeing frequently... especially at night. Began to worry about being diabetic.
Late Feb. 2015 Went in for a physical for my work. Urine sample indicated diabetes.

At this point I began doing some research and discovered a possible link between Type 2 and Lipitor... but I was, (and still am), somewhat skeptical about the connection. My reaction to the diagnosis was to A: Change my diet. B: Begin an exercise regime. and C: Cut my Lipitor dose by 50%, (okayed by my doctor). Also I scheduled an appointment with my regular doctor, (the urine sample was done at a clinic for work).

March 17: I had lost 8 lbs. Went in for my first ever A1C test.
March 18: My doctor called and wanted to see me asap. My test result was 9.5! He prescribed me 500mg MetFormin twice daily
March 19 7pm: Began MetFormin
March 20 10:30AM: arrived for Diabetes Counseling. Blood sugar tested at 113. The counselor was surprised at the relatively low number.

Since that time I have been very diligent about my diet and exercise. My readings are almost always between 110 and 120. Never over 120 and once as low as 93. I vary the testing between fasting and 2 hours post meals.

I am not in denial and I realize that this is a process that will be ongoing. But I can't help but be very concerned about the wisdom of continuing the Lipitor! I talked to my doctor about it and he says that my cholesterol level was high enough to be of as much concern as the diabetes.

My instinct is to continue on the current schedule of meds, diet, and exercise and see where I am in 3 months. But it only took three months of Lipitor to push me from non-diabetic to 9.5,, (if, in fact , the Lipitor is playing a role at all).


Are there any of you that have a similar concern with Lipitor or other similar drugs?
 
Hi MikeZ, welcome to the forum.

Firstly, I'm a T1 so I may not be of much use to you, but I know that the use of statins is controversial amongst forum members. If you search the threads (search bar top right) you will find it has cropped up several times.

Glad to read that you've got your cholesterol down and lost some weight along the way. Many people claim that T2 is reversible with the right diet and exercise etc so I wish you luck. No doubt there will be some T2's along soon with some decent advice.
 
Hi urbanracer,

Thanks for the reply. I will check back soon for more info. I did do a search here for Lipitor prior to posting this and found a link to this very troubling article:

http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/th...as-big-pharma-defends-billion-dollar-industry

However, it's so hard to tell if the author or the site has an agenda. That site smacked of conspiracy theories.

I am very interested in getting some insight from everyday people.
 
Hi. It is well-known that most statins can increase blood sugar a little when diabetic and can cause some to become diabetic. I'm guessing that the latter happens to people who are pre-diabetic anyway? The arguments rage for and against the use of statins. They do reduce total cholesterol but that may not be a good thing unless you are one of those susceptible to cardiac isues? There is some evidence that blood cholesterol does not reflect the state of cholesterol deposits in the arteries i.e. different processes. For some there are serious side effects. Google the web to find out more and make you own decision! A low-carb diet is the best way to go diet-wise. For many this itself results in either reduced cholesterol or a better LDL to HDL ratio which is more important than the total level. If it was me I would continue where you are and check with the physician in 3 months time as he has agreed with what you are doing and it seems sensible.
 
millions of people have been on statins for decades and been fine

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...olled_trials_to_aid_individual_patient_choice

Results: Among 14 primary prevention trials (46,262 participants),

statin therapy increased diabetes by absolute risk of 0.5% (95% CI 0.1–1%, p¼0.012),

meanwhile reducing death by a similar extent: 0.5% (0.9 to 0.2%, p¼0.003).

In the 15 secondary prevention RCTs (37,618 participants), statins decreased death by 1.4% (2.1 to 0.7%, p<0.001).

There were no other statin-attributable symptoms,

although asymptomatic liver transaminase elevation was 0.4% more frequent with statins across all trials. Serious adverse events and withdrawals were similar in both arms.


Conclusions:

Only a small minority of symptoms reported on statins are genuinely due to the statins:
almost all would occur just as frequently on placebo.


Only development of new-onset diabetes mellitus was significantly higher on statins than placebo; nevertheless only 1 in 5 of new cases were actually caused by statins. Higher statin doses produce a detectable effect, but even still the proportion attributable to statins is variable: for asymptomatic liver enzyme elevation, the majority are attributable to the higher dose; in contrast for muscle aches, the majority are not.


this study looked at the history of 60,000 Diabetics after av. 2.7

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(14)70173-1/abstract

retinopathy HR=0.6 [decrease of risk]

neuropathy HR=0.66

gangrene of the foot HR=0.88

diabetic nephropathy HR=0.97

[neutral..........HR=1.0 ]

diabetes HR=1·17 [increase of risk]



the way I look at it ..if nothing else take statin for neuropathy, retinopathy and gangrene of the foot
 
Thanks for the insight Jack,

For the time being I am going to stick with the doctor's prescribed meds. He essentially said what you said... statistically, the chances that the Lipitor had a strong impact on my diabetes diagnosis are slim. I believe he said 1 in 500. The rapid onset, (going from non-diabetic to an A1C of 9.5 in 3 months), coupled with the timing of my beginning the statin is what has me asking questions.

My doctor agreed to cut the statin by 50%, which I have done. We will see where my cholesterol is in 6 months. In the meanwhile, I will focus my energy on my diet and exercise and blood glucose levels.
 
I take a low dose statin for vascular health. Like metformin, I think if I can tolerate them, both are good drugs to take for the other benefits.

A lot think it's triglyceride and HDL that are the important marker and you may find this video on blood tests worth watching about cholesterol and lipids


and this one too if you wish
www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2zoDsVimyw
 
My hubby started to take 1 x 10mg of atoravastatin lipitor just once a week. It was my old tablets that I could not tolerate and he was just taking one.
His hba was waleays around 4.6 to 4.8. Always. It crept up to 5.1 inmonths of just 1 10mg a week!
Next GP 4 weeks ago upped him to 40mg daily.
I tested his blood last night. Two hours after a meal. It was 8.9.
He is (or was not) diabetic 4 weeks ago and when I had previously done random tests on him he has never had a reading over 5. Not in 20 years of random tests.

4 weeks after starting liptor he is getting readings above 8.

The trouble is... Has the statin now done permanent damage to his pancreas function or would stopping the liptornow cease the high levels? Has untold permanent unreversuble damage been done to him?
 
Hi @donnellysdogs

Dunno about the link but that sounds odd to say the least. The VERY least. You'd hardly want him to be the guinea pig in this exercise, but I know what I'd do.

It is a VERY divisive topic and I still think it's far from resolved. We all have different points of view and it's good to share them. You can guess which camp I live in.

Case in point. My wife cannot tolerate aspirin or codeine at all. Paracetamol? No issues. Draw that as a parallel to statins. OK for some and not OK for others
 
Hi Mike.
I turned out to be allergic to the stuff so don't take it.
My cholesterol levels are getting better slowly since I went on the lchf diet.
Conspiracy theorists ..... the best label ever thought up to shut people up who disagree with governments and corporations who often conspire to hide the truth from the public ... just saying.
 
jack412 said:
40mg is a large dose isn't it? that will reduce his cholesterol by about 50%
I'm on 5mg (which I take every other day) Rosuvastatin
View attachment 12594
Click to expand...

The bmj came out with an article recently about rosuvastatin.

However there is a statin that is meant to decrease chances of getting diabetes rather than increasing them.

I'm going to carry on testing his blood 2 hours after meals this week and see whether this was a blip. It is the only difference in his life though. I know he would have told me if he'd ate anything else but as he was with me all day and ate the same as me, I know he hasn't. Even if he had his pancreas should have coped with it.

I am worried and have read this extract from the GP Pulse today article that makes me wonder if you should instead go on pravastatin...from article....

"For the present Canadian study, researchers analysed diabetes rates among 471,250 patients (median aged 73 years) with no previous history of diabetes who were newly treated with a statin between August 1997 and the end of March 2010. Roughly half were taking them for primary prevention, the other half for secondary prevention.
The team found the absolute risk for incident diabetes was highest among those taking atorvastatin and rosuvastatin, at rates of 31 and 34 events per 1,000 person-years, respectively, while it was lower for simvastatin, at 26 outcomes per 1,000 person-years and with pravastatin, at 23 outcomes per 1,000 person-years.
Relative to pravastatin users, this meant patients on atorvastatin had a 22% increased relative risk of developing diabetes, while rosuvastatin users had an 18% increased risk and simvastatin users a 10% increased risk.
The potency of statins - in increasing order is fluvastatin, lovastatin, pravastatin, simvastatin, atorvastatin and rosuvastatin. The researchers found no difference in risk of diabetes with either fluvastatin or lovastatin in comparison with pravastatin. Lovastatin is not licensed for use in the UK.
The researchers say the findings held true for both primary and secondary prevention groups. Overall, moderate and high doses of statins were associated with higher incidences of diabetes than low doses, while rosuvastatin appeared risky only at higher doses.
The researchers concluded: ‘Preferential use of pravastatin, and potentially fluvastatin or lovastatin, while recognizing the limited efficacy data and increased risk of drug interactions with these two agents, might be warranted.
‘Pravastatin might have a preferential benefit among primary prevention patients at high risk of diabetes.’"
 
I actually don't tolerate any type of cholesterol lowering drug or any drug such as lyrica etc. from last bloods he had taken after eating more saturated fats he has now reduced all dairy and gone to avocado, olives etc.... But GP recommended 40mg statin. So this is what he has started. He was taking atoravastatin 10mg as they were old ones of mine that I could not tolerate. Told GP this.. Who didn't tell us of!! But then just upped him to 40mg. His dad started having strokes at age 50 but didn't die until 70 of heart attack.
 
Hi @JACKTHELAD

I hate 'em .... period. My cholesterol readings are perfect. My rule is this. Do i need the damned things? No. Not in my opinion at least.

I thought I needed metformin too ..... not anymore. Still have readings some people would kill for AFTER givin' them up.

Just my BP that gives me issues.
 
Mike D said:
Hi @JACKTHELAD

I hate 'em .... period. My cholesterol readings are perfect. My rule is this. Do i need the damned things? No. Not in my opinion at least.

I thought I needed metformin too ..... not anymore. Still have readings some people would kill for AFTER givin' them up.

Just my BP that gives me issues.
Click to expand...
I'm close to trying without the met.
My blood pressure meds have been halved.
 
DD, in your hubbies case, like you I would be concerned with the rapid onset and associate it to the statin, a lot of what I have read have said..dose dependent
with his 'reduce ~50%' dose, is his cholesterol twice as high as he would like it?
have you got a breakdown of his lipids, yet? low trigs and high HDL would make me feel better.

by the article and per 1000 years is a long time and may come back to the 0.5% risk..I don't know if 0.5 or 0.7% is a great factor but it seems there is low dose rosuvastatin or if pravastatin edges it out..
"while rosuvastatin appeared risky only at higher doses."
"Pravastatin might have a preferential benefit among primary prevention patients at high risk of diabetes.

you wouldn't have the link or be able to tell me about the subject matter to google the BMJ article about rosuvastatin?
 
JACKTHELAD said:
I'm close to trying without the met.
My blood pressure meds have been halved.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be in a rush to get rid of met..they say it could give normal death risk and remove the 8 year shorter life span of diabetics
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/280725.php
new study by Cardiff University, UK, involving over 180,000 people, reveals that the drug could also increase the lifespan of those individuals who are non-diabetics.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not going to rush.
I've dropped from three a day to two for quite some time now and at some point will drop to one if things keep going as well as they are just now and see what happens.
 
Mike D said:
Hi @JACKTHELAD

I hate 'em .... period. My cholesterol readings are perfect. My rule is this. Do i need the damned things? No. Not in my opinion at least.

I thought I needed metformin too ..... not anymore. Still have readings some people would kill for AFTER givin' them up.

Just my BP that gives me issues.
Click to expand...
Mike, I recently stopped taking my supplements to give my body a break and my BP went up after a long period without BP meds. Did a google search on natural methods of lowering BP and Co-Q10 came up. And it was one of the supplements I'd taken a break from. Started taking it again and my BP has now gone back to normal.

To help it along, I've also started taking a magnesium powder (which also contains a number of other minerals). I'm keeping my fingers crossed the supplements keep the BP lower.
 
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