Newcastle diet starting Monday, done it once who gonna join me on my journey??

[Brunneria]

Well, I can distinctly remember posting to @Arab Horse that following the ND without clear proof of visceral fat, without the support of her medical team, and in fact against her medical team's advice, was highly inadvisable.

Except of course, that advising someone to take medical advice should always be considered supportive, shouldn't it?

 

[Arab Horse]

Well, I can distinctly remember posting to @Arab Horse that following the ND without clear proof of visceral fat, without the support of her medical team, and in fact against her medical team's advice, was highly inadvisable.



Except of course, that advising someone to take medical advice should always be considered supportive, shouldn't it?

Yes, and I did seek the support of my DN, I have never actually seen a Dr. Around here there seems to be no support for the ND. A fellow T2 down the road from me who, from what he has told me, would be the ideal candidate for the ND had asked his Dr and been told not to do it under any circumstances, that it would be dangerous. He has no other health problems, is younger than me and was diagnosed several years ago when went into one of the trailers that offered free health checks; like me had no diabetic symptoms. His diabetes is well controlled on metformin and another drug (can't remember which one, one of the "gliptins"). He initially lost a couple of stones over a period of time but is still slightly overweight and he too thinks it would be great for him. He also is carb intolerant although not as bad a me but that may be the other drug he is on. He controls his diet very carefully and he is waiting to see how I get on before going back to his Dr to say he is going to do.

I was a healthy weight all my adult life until I lost one and a half stone low carbing after diagnosis (and had stated so) and always kept an eye on my weight I thought it was a bit out of order, I loved my food and could very easily have let myself become obese but decided I didn't want to be fat.

 

[Arab Horse]

@Brunneria I forgot to say that your post was fine, I did remember it but couldn't remember who had posted it.

 

[Brunneria]

Do you have clear proof of visceral fat?

And are you following the ND, as prescribed by professor Taylor?
3 shakes a day, additional fat and vegetables? Regular medical supervision?

 

[Arab Horse]

@Pipp said "Sincerely the very fat but contented currently 'reversed' but cautious, T2 Pipp. Do you really think anyone 'wants to be fat'?"

Apologies if I upset you, Pipp, by saying that I didn't want to get fat, it was not an insult to anyone. I have posted previously that I was a rather tubby child in a family of stick insects and was called Fattie, Jelly bags Miss Mitchelin (after the Mitchelin tyre person) and several other similar names and when I lost my weight in my early teens I vowed that I would never allow myself to be overweight again as I love my food and would find it very hard to diet and, as you point out, such comments are not nice and I certainly didn't mean my comment to be taken as a derogatory comment to anyone. I now have to diet for health reasons and I find it as hard as I thought I would to give up all the things I like and have to watch others eating all the things I can't. I know what a struggle it must be for you and others to lose a lot of weight and admire anyone who manages it. There must be times when it it is very depressing. I am very pleased that you have reversed your diabetes and hope it continues in reversal and that you do manage to lose more weight if that is what you want.

I have a lot of overweight friends and they are smart, articulate and are actually very happy to be the size they are but maybe they weren't fat or teased as a child as I was. I am very sorry if anyone thinks that any of my comments were derogatory, that was certainly never my intention; I was just trying to explain, obviously very badly, why I had always been so motivated to keep my weight in the normal range.

Richard Doughty lost a lot of weight from a low starting point, as have several others, and reversed their diabetes. I have been tested and am not type 1.5 or a late onset T1. I am sorry my DN (and a lot of Drs) around here are against the ND; I really feel that a few more years down the road it may well be the first line of treatment for T2 diabetics. It would save the NHS billions and a lot of people from the spectre of diabetes hanging over them for the rest of their lives. I hope I can achieve the success you did, Pipp, but if not at least I have tried.

Can we put this behind us and turn the page? I don't have time to search for the post at the moment as it is nearly hay cutting time and I have to spend a lot of time finding and digging up ragwort in my hay fields before the hay is cut as it is very poisonous to horses.

 

[Steve50]

Last day of week 7 (49/56) of the ND. Another 5lbs lost with 2 lbs to go to initially set target weight of 14 stones (88.9kg). BMI started at 33.2 and is now 27.7. I'd still like to continue weight loss after 8 weeks ND by migrating on to LCHF to achieve a lower BMI (24.9 or below - 12st 11lbs or 81.2kg) that I can then sustain long-term.

More importantly the BG averages have meant that I decided to eliminate another tablet of Metformin from my daily intake, going to 1 x 500mg in the morning along with my 1 BP tablet and a statin at bedtime. Compared to 7 weeks ago when I was on 6 tablets at breakfast, 4 at dinner and 1 at bedtime and about to have more medication added as the a1c was still too high, I think that can be counted as success so far.

I have noted that, as before when I reduced my Metformin intake, by BG readings have become slightly more erratic over the last couple of days. I am anticipating that will settle down over the next week or so if last time is anything to go by.

Had to go clothes shopping yesterday . Before all this started I was in VERY tight 38" waist trousers (a dinner suit I occassionally wore actually had 40" trousers). 34" waist ones are now comfortable, so out go about 8 pairs of assorted jeans, walking & casual trousers with 4 pairs of replacements plus 2 smaller belts. There will have to be another spend pre-holiday in about 7 weeks time. The money I've saved on food over the past couple of months has just been blown I think!

That is a fantastic result so far. I am on the LCHF and am now back down to the lowest I was on the NP - after a small rise when I came off it.

7 days to go Rob.

 

[Steve50]

This is a very difficult discussion to have without mentioning fat. I was very happy to lose weight - but even happier with fasting blood levels.

What we have here is a support group. Support for T2 reversal.

 

[Arab Horse]

This is a very difficult discussion to have without mentioning fat. I was very happy to lose weight - but even happier with fasting blood levels.

What we have here is a support group. Support for T2 reversal.

Thank you, Steve. I really have had no support from those around me apart from the diabetic neighbour who ie eagerly waiting to see if I am successful and, if so, he will do it despite his Dr categorical NO. I am glad that you saw my post for what it was although I may not have been as tactful as I could have been, as you say, difficult to have this discussion without mentioning obesity/overweight; it was never my intention to criticise or hurt anyone. My post was more to show that I knew I would not have the will power to stick to a rigid diet for a long time to lose a lot of weight so I made sure that I was never in that position. I admire those of you that have done so although now I know about LCHF it would (did) make losing weight easy as I lost weight I didn't need to without even trying once I cut the carbs.

I will not post my results here but I will certainly give them to you if you manage to get your data base going. The more knowledge there is about the people who reversed their diabetes and those who didn't the better the prediction of who it is most likely to benefit will be. I would also be willing to give details about lifestyle and family history as I do think there is great deal of relevance about those. I know I didn't get enough sleep, worked long hours and had a lot of stress, didn't eat regularly or as well as I should have and had a paternal grandfather who was diabetic. There are many other factors that I think come into play for much of the ill health many of us suffer from now. I also have osteoporosis and osteoarthritis although I feel fit and well and still manage to control half a ton of stallion every day!!!!

 

[RobOwen]

That is a fantastic result so far. I am on the LCHF and am now back down to the lowest I was on the NP - after a small rise when I came off it.

7 days to go Rob.

That's the sort of information I like to hear... I'd like to think all the progress I've made with a regime that works for me is not undone - LCHF is planned to be a long-term strategy for further loss and then maintenance, so I really hope it is a process that suits my metabolism.

Exante has worked for me and I know it is a processed product, but the benefits I have derived far outweigh those undesireable qualities to my way of thinking, as my personality is one that needs some significant tangible results in a defined time period - 8 weeks suited my perceptions acceptably.

 

[Living-by-the-beach]

As for this support group and facing T2 I reach out to many people about their weight. My sister is 60+ years of age and has a BMI in excess of 30+. Since I've lost 63lbs (as of today's weigh-in) I have been begging her to get her bloods checked but she refuses. I seriously doubt if my sister would have the will power to lose the weight I have if she becomes diagnosed T2. I was also in my local bike store yesterday and the owners daughter was severely obese too and I mentioned T2 to him. I'd not dare to mention it directly to his daughter but that at least as a parent they are aware of the issues.

On my own front I've not been able to follow ND lately as I've been doing manual labour on my new home & I have to have some sustenance to be able to swing an axe while digging trenches. What I did see though is I'm noticing myself become particularly more leaner in the last month or so. As I've become an avid cyclist any neuropathy I get in my feet subsides if I start pedaling any sort of distance. My body is getting stronger and healthier and I sense that this is something everyone should strive for.

Good luck to us all!

 

[Arab Horse]

As for this support group and facing T2 I reach out to many people about their weight. My sister is 60+ years of age and has a BMI in excess of 30+. Since I've lost 63lbs (as of today's weigh-in) I have been begging her to get her bloods checked but she refuses. I seriously doubt if my sister would have the will power to lose the weight I have if she becomes diagnosed T2. I was also in my local bike store yesterday and the owners daughter was severely obese too and I mentioned T2 to him. I'd not dare to mention it directly to his daughter but that at least as a parent they are aware of the issues.

On my own front I've not been able to follow ND lately as I've been doing manual labour on my new home & I have to have some sustenance to be able to swing an axe while digging trenches. What I did see though is I'm noticing myself become particularly more leaner in the last month or so. As I've become an avid cyclist any neuropathy I get in my feet subsides if I start pedaling any sort of distance. My body is getting stronger and healthier and I sense that this is something everyone should strive for.

Good luck to us all!

Great to hear this, digging trenches is certainly good for the waistline and, I am sure T2 diabetes. I think you were correct to mention the girl's weight to her father. I do think parents have a responsibility to their children to guide them.

 

[Quarante-Quatre]

Hi everyone, new here and I'm type 2 diagnosed at the very end of 2014. Since then I've lost 25kg and plan to lose about 12kg more, the ultimate goal is to move off pills and control with diet alone.

My latest HbA1c was 36 (two weeks ago) and I'm down to 1×sitagliptin 100mg and 2×metformin 500mg per day. I'm interested in what people's daily blood sugar levels were about the point where they stopped taking pills and what daily levels they expect to see on average after coming off medication.

Is there a lead time between monitoring blood sugar and stopping medication, ie would I expect to see reduced levels for 24hrs or so until the drugs had been expunged from my system?

Thanks all in advance

 

[Steve50]

Hi everyone, new here and I'm type 2 diagnosed at the very end of 2014. Since then I've lost 25kg and plan to lose about 12kg more, the ultimate goal is to move off pills and control with diet alone.

My latest HbA1c was 36 (two weeks ago) and I'm down to 1×sitagliptin 100mg and 2×metformin 500mg per day. I'm interested in what people's daily blood sugar levels were about the point where they stopped taking pills and what daily levels they expect to see on average after coming off medication.

Is there a lead time between monitoring blood sugar and stopping medication, ie would I expect to see reduced levels for 24hrs or so until the drugs had been expunged from my system?

Thanks all in advance

HI QQ

Welcome to the group.

You have some good questions. We can tell you what we have experienced - but as you may have read - we are all different in terms of readings and medication. A few fundamentals - if you are considering the Newcastle Program;

1 - talk to your Dr or DN first - just to check that it is ok for you to do it - especially if you are coming off your meds.
2 - read this thread - loads of experience and info.....all good stuff
3 - ask whatever questions you like - I'm sure one of us will answer you if we can.

Be sure you want to do this - and start building your mental strength - you'll need it.

 

[Steve50]

Hi All

3 things

1.We are aware that sometimes the informality of email - can cause problems with interpretation and intent. This thread is similar in nature - we just dump our thoughts sometimes and don't realise what we have said until someone interprets it other than how we intended. I'm hoping that none of us take personally what we are saying, or views we are expressing. We seem to be a fairly mature group.

Moving on -

We also seem to have moved onto the subject of will power. Some have said they don't think they have the will power for the NP. It's quite an odd thing. After a couple of days on the NP I felt I had made an investment. Then after a few more, it felt like I would have wasted so much effort to have thrown in the towel. That is not to say I did not have set backs and struggles - but after a point it was not about will power any more - it was more to do with achievement.

I don't know how the others who have completed the NP feel about this - but for me it was a struggle to start with, then it became an uncomfortable challenge - then it got a bit boring - then very boring but the results felt rewarding in almost equal measure.

I think as long as you feel in control, and confident you are not causing damage to yourself, - and as long as you are getting low fasting blood results - then it will not become a matter of will power. It only seems like a long time while you are doing it. Once it was over I kind of missed being on it!

I have spoken about using this thread in some kind of research. I have been doing some more background reading - and I am moving more in the direction of seeing if this kind of interaction can provide support for keeping the weight we have lost off. Given that the stats are stacked against us - it would be interesting to know if a post NP discussion group can contribute in any way to weight maintenance - and in some cases (like mine for instance) further weight loss!

 

[Steve50]

Sorry - pressed the button before I have finished!

What I am thinking about is a form of Action Research (for all our researchy friends out there)!

 

[AndBreathe]

As for this support group and facing T2 I reach out to many people about their weight. My sister is 60+ years of age and has a BMI in excess of 30+. Since I've lost 63lbs (as of today's weigh-in) I have been begging her to get her bloods checked but she refuses. I seriously doubt if my sister would have the will power to lose the weight I have if she becomes diagnosed T2. I was also in my local bike store yesterday and the owners daughter was severely obese too and I mentioned T2 to him. I'd not dare to mention it directly to his daughter but that at least as a parent they are aware of the issues.

On my own front I've not been able to follow ND lately as I've been doing manual labour on my new home & I have to have some sustenance to be able to swing an axe while digging trenches. What I did see though is I'm noticing myself become particularly more leaner in the last month or so. As I've become an avid cyclist any neuropathy I get in my feet subsides if I start pedaling any sort of distance. My body is getting stronger and healthier and I sense that this is something everyone should strive for.

Good luck to us all!

I'm impressed you survived to tell the tale!! My father was a calm, even tempered man who rarely got irritated, but I can confidently say that had anyone ever engaged in conversation with him in order to commented on my appearance in anything other than a complimentary way, he would have received some feedback of a very special kind!

Did he respond, or was he dumbstruck?

 

[Steve50]

@Steve50
You would need approval from admin before conducting any research here. Also, I think it would be unethical to use any info from this thread as any participants in scientific research should give informed consent. It would have to be a new thread, or you would be using data without permission. So these are things to consider if you propose any research.

HI Pip

Of course you are right. Ethics is very important. I'm no-where near embarking on any kind of research and would never use any-ones contributions to this or any other thread without permission/consent.

While that goes without saying - it does of course need to be said - and thank you for the opportunity to do so!

While there has been relatively little discussion about this - should anything go forward then two ideas are worth consideration. Firstly it would seem that what interests us is weight loss maintenance - and secondly, forming (or reforming) an on line network of potential participants is interesting.

That is as far as I have gone - no settled idea of any research question, methodology or proposal. Just ideas. However, out of my own interest, I have been doing some background reading - and there is quite a bit that has already been written about regaining weight - so there is definitely a gap in knowledge there.

 

[Arab Horse]

HI Pip

Of course you are right. Ethics is very important. I'm no-where near embarking on any kind of research and would never use any-ones contributions to this or any other thread without permission/consent.

While that goes without saying - it does of course need to be said - and thank you for the opportunity to do so!

While there has been relatively little discussion about this - should anything go forward then two ideas are worth consideration. Firstly it would seem that what interests us is weight loss maintenance - and secondly, forming (or reforming) an on line network of potential participants is interesting.

That is as far as I have gone - no settled idea of any research question, methodology or proposal. Just ideas. However, out of my own interest, I have been doing some background reading - and there is quite a bit that has already been written about regaining weight - so there is definitely a gap in knowledge there.

As I have previously stated,you are free to use any of my data/family history etc that I have posted. As this site is used by thousands of people no one should be posting anything that they want to keep hidden although I agree with Pipp that you need to have consent to publish anything.

I think it would be great if you did get the "study" up and running, it can do nothing but good and could potentially help millions of people in the longer (or should that be not so long) term. I hope my results will be interesting to others like me who are already under weight when they start the ND/NP. As I expected, my glucoses are now normal all the time (that is because I am NEVER eating anything that will raise them and am eating much less. Remains to be seen if I will retain these BS levels when I start eating more and up my calories again. If I do then I will VERY slowly try a small potato etc. to see what happens. My biggest problem so far is trying to drink 3 litres a day!!!

 

[Pipp]

For the record. What I have said is that for any research on DCUK one first needs to seek approval from admin here.

Regarding ethics, the posts in here could be regarded as data to be manipulated. However peoples's personal experiences are just that, personal. Whilst they may not mind discussing their diabetes in a forum they need to be aware if it is to be used elsewhere.

My other concern is that we are derailing this thread which was started by @geordie90 for encouraging each other during ND, so perhaps a new thread is needed to discuss research?

 

[Steve50]

For the record. What I have said is that for any research on DCUK one first needs to seek approval from admin here.

Regarding ethics, the posts in here could be regarded as data to be manipulated. However peoples's personal experiences are just that, personal. Whilst they may not mind discussing their diabetes in a forum they need to be aware if it is to be used elsewhere.

My other concern is that we are derailing this thread which was started by @geordie90 for encouraging each other during ND, so perhaps a new thread is needed to discuss research?

Pip

I'm not entirely sure where you are coming from on this. I don't know how many times I can reiterate that this is a discussion - not a proposal. For this to move to another level - it would of course have to have structure and agreements and consent and all sorts of things. This conversation is a million miles away from that.

What you are highlighting though - is that any discussion of this nature could indeed be seen as a threat by certain members - so on that basis alone - I will not mention it any more.

Do you have any genuine concerns that this thread is being derailed? It was indeed started for the intention of encouraging others during the NP/ND - but looking back over it, the conversations have been somewhat 'organic' and often strayed from the original theme. As indeed it should in any democracy.