Good HbA1c - Can I persuade DSN I need Victoza?

jpg

Active Member
Messages
36
Hi, I’m new to this forum but used to contribute to a diabetes forum years ago when I was first diagnosed with T2 DM in 1998. I am male and 63 years old.

I have progressed through D&E, antidiabetics such as Rosiglitazone and currently Metformin (maximum dose 3x850mg).

I am currently on Simvastatin 20mg – was 40 mg but my cholesterol was too LOW, still low at about 2.4.

I take 75mg aspirin once per day, along with Candesartan, Amlopidine and Bendroflumethazide for high blood pressure (reasonably well-controlled).

Somehow or other I have managed to wangle a repeat prescription of Orlistat, this is prescribed by my GP who does not worry about things such as actually losing weight on it – the practice nurses followed the strict guidelines of only prescribing it if you lost 2Kg a month. I did lose about 10 Kg on Orlistat but now it just seems to keep my weight stable at 102-104 Kg. My height is 1.72 metres so my BMI is around about 35kg/m².

Because of my obesity I suffer from heartburn, so I am taking 150mg of Ranitidine as well.

Just to add to the pill menagerie, I suffer from hay fever so I take seasonal antihistamines, and I also get the odd bout of gout (!) so I take the occasional 50 mg Voltarol.

To further add to this veritable pharmacopaeia of medications, two years ago I was prescribed Lantus, which I have titrated up and down until I am now taking 30 units, although it has varied between 6 and 56 units. I also take Novorapid which I titrate according to carb intake between about 8 and 24 units. My fasting BMs are 5-7 and I peak 12-16 in the evening.

I have now reached the stage where I feel a simplification of my medication is required, and I see one possible answer in the newer drugs such as Byetta or Victoza.

The problem is my HbA1c is really rather good, between 5 and 6 at the last test, but this has been at a cost of actual or near hypo on frequent occasions, including some rather scary night-time hypos. The constant insulin input has given me an enormous appetite, and I have only stabilised my weight by taking Orlistat and suffering the gastric consequences.

I finally persuaded my GP to refer me to the diabetic nurse specialist at Hospital whom I visit on Thursday of the week. I desperately want to shake off the insulin (and the weight) but I am unsure how to approach this as my HbA1c is good.

I strongly feel that I would benefit health-wise by reducing my medication, which I am sure Byetta or Victoza would allow me to do. I am told that Victoza helps with high blood pressure and just losing weight would help with that as well.

I also feel that the NHS may well benefit financially as I’m sure the totality of medications I am receiving now must cost more than an equivalent Victoza or Byetta regime.

How do you think I should approach the hospital DSN with my request to go on one of the newer injectable drugs? Do I even have a case given my good results? The benefits of other peoples’ experiences would be very helpful.

Thank you for bearing with me during my long screed.

JPG
 

jpg

Active Member
Messages
36
What is that meant to mean? I must admit I am a little disappointed that the only response I get is a cryptic one word one.

jpg

:?
 

cugila

Master
Messages
10,272
Dislikes
People who are touchy.......feign indignation at the slightest thing. Hypocrites, bullies and cowards.
jpg said:
What is that meant to mean? I must admit I am a little disappointed that the only response I get is a cryptic one word one.

jpg

:?


jpg.
You should be grateful to Catherinecherub.....she noticed your post hadn't been answered and 'bumped' it to the top of the board for you, to see if there would be any reponses. I must admit that this one appears to have been overlooked, happens sometimes when we are busy.

'bump' is commonly used on most internet Fora when posts may have been overlooked or just haven't been answered.

cugila
Forum Monitor
 

cugila

Master
Messages
10,272
Dislikes
People who are touchy.......feign indignation at the slightest thing. Hypocrites, bullies and cowards.
jpg said:
How do you think I should approach the hospital DSN with my request to go on one of the newer injectable drugs? Do I even have a case given my good results? The benefits of other peoples’ experiences would be very helpful.
JPG


There is a strict criteria for the prescribing of Byetta and Victoza. They are very similar.

Your BMI usually has to be in excess of 35, you need to have been on max doses of both Biguanides and Sulphonylureas and your Bg levels should be outside of normal parameters.

From looking at your details it seems that this may not be an option for you........however, some Consultant's routinely ignore guidelines and if you ask and they agree there is no reason why either of these drugs may not be suitable. You can but try.

We have a massive thread here on Byetta and a smaller, but growing one on Victoza. They are both in the Diabetes Medication and Drugs Section. Take a look there and see if there may be some further information that can help you.

Ken
 

jpg

Active Member
Messages
36
Thanks Ken. I have been on various fora for years and that's the first time I have seen "bump".

Well, I saw the DSN at the hospital this morning and she was quite happy for me to go on Byetta, but not Victoza - it's something to do with expense and the PCT's guidelines. A quick check of costs on online pharmacies (not what the NHS pays I know!) shows a month's supply of Byetta at about £90 and a month of Victoza at £50, so no logic there then - must be because it is new.

That aside, the nurse said that I was not to stop taking insulin, neither the glargine or the aspart, but to reduce the insulin doses by one half and to take the Byetta concurrently.

I can only guess that they are thinking that I have some insulin resistance, at least while my BMI is around 35, and that the exenatide will not do its job properly and I will not get enough insulin naturally. Either that or they really think that the appetite-suppressant properties of Byetta are more important than the insulin producing properties - they may well be right there as when I have been at a lower weight, my control has improved dramatically.

I wanted to simply my medication regime - seems I have now complicated it - hey ho.

Over to the Byetta thread now, all 100-odd pages. Thanks for your help

jpg
 

sugarless sue

Master
Messages
10,098
Dislikes
Rude people! Not being able to do the things I want to do.
a month's supply of Byetta at about £90 and a month of Victoza at £50, so no logic there then - must be because it is new.

According to the BNF which the NHS follow, these are the prices of Byetta and Victoza.
*
Byetta® (Lilly) Black triangle Prescription-only medicine
Injection , exenatide 250 micrograms/mL, net price 5 microgram/dose prefilled pen (60 doses) = £68.24, 10 microgram/dose prefilled pen (60 doses) = £68.24. Counselling, administration

*
Victoza® (Novo Nordisk) Black triangle Prescription-only medicine
Injection , liraglutide 6 mg/mL, net price 2 × 3-mL prefilled pens = £78.48, 3 × 3-mL prefilled pens = £117.72. Counselling, administration
 

kay957

Well-Known Member
Messages
177
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Hi JPG
I have been on Victoza for a while now, my last HBA1c test was 6.2 and they still allowed me to be on it, I was initially on Januvia which was giving me terrible headaches. I understand that on reading the material that comes with Victoza tells us of side effects, but I have not experienced too many of them. I think it is up to each GP if they wish to allow a patient to use Victoza, they had to have a conflab about me using it with the other practice staff because of the cost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people