Thiamine -Vitamin B1 Defficiency

[janabelle]

I wonder if anyone on the forum read the research that showed Diabetics are defficient in Vitamin B1. The study, done at Warwick university, showed type1s and 2s had three quarters less Thiamine(B1) in their blood than healthy people. Apparently it's important for the nervous and vascular system.
I started taking it just over a year ago- 100mg tablet per day, It's water soluble and cannot be overdosed on, and it's cheap!
I figure it cant hurt, and if there is conclusive evidence in years to come that it can prevent complications, I will be glad I took it.
Anyone got any views on this subject, love to hear them.
Jus

 

[Tinkerbelly]

I also picked up on the link you mentioned involving Warwick some time ago.

Last year I was told that I had the start of background retinopathy in one eye so that made me pull my socks up a bit and I tightened up my control by testing 6 times a day and watching what carbohydrate I ate for snacks. I also started to take 100mg thiamine tablet at night before bed. Not only did it make me sleep better but it also stopped me from having to use the loo about 3am. A year later, my eye scan is all ok and the background blood vessel damage has now gone. I think that thiamine can and does help.

 

[Nellie]

Yes, I picked up that one and intended to start taking it but forgot to get some when in UK (I couldn't find it here except very expensively at the pharmacy) thanyou for reminding me.
Heresa a description http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_find_vitamin/

 

[IanD]

The ABC multivit-minerals contain 100% of the EC RDA - 1.4 mg.

Your figure of 100 mg is very high in comparison.

 

[janabelle]

Ian, I know it's a big dose, but if us diabetics just wee it out or are unable to retain it in some way, it can't hurt.
Nellie, I also bought it from a pharmacy first time, cost bout 7 quid! Holland & Barret sell it much cheaper Wait till they have a sale, which they do regularly, and buy it in bulk online.
Jus

 

[timo2]

Hello janabelle,

I'm currently taking benfotiamine(the fat soluble version of thiamine).
Because benfotiamine is fat-soluble instead of water-soluble, it's not flushed out of your
body like thiamine.

Although, as you say, you can't overdose on thiamine, taking too high a dose of any single
B vitamin can deplete the levels of other B vitamins. High levels of thiamine(B1) can have
a particularly negative effect on levels of Vitamin B3 (Niacin).

All the best,
timo.

 

[janabelle]

Hi Timo, never heard of that one. Where do u get it? Have you noticed any improvement in your health since taking it, or are u taking it for the long-term benefits?
Thanks
Jus

 

[hanadr]

For Nellie
You're in France aren't you?
You should be able to find yeast tablets there. they contain B vitamins
Hanadr

 

[timo2]

Hello janabelle,

I buy my benfotiamine from bodykind.com (UK based, as far as I'm aware).

I take it mainly for the supposed long-term benefits, although I have notice that I
seem to heal noticeably quicker(cuts, grazes, spots etc.) since I've been taking it.

All the best,
timo.

 

[Dipstick]

I am type 2 diabetic and not always well controlled. Tiredness is a large part of my problem and the fact that the GP will not prescribe enough testing sticks for me. Just one tub per six months!

I am interested in the posts about B vitamins as I seem to lack them, and find that taking a B complex vitamin from time to time makes me feel a lot better - about the 3am wee, will try B1 to see if that helps! Any other advice on better control would be great. I have been diabetic for around 9 years but my ACi never gets below 7.3. I am being hassled to get it under tighter control. Apart from stopping eating what else can I do?

 

[hanadr]

Dear dipstick
Cut back on the carbs! that's the simplest way to get better control. It's not east at first, but you adapt quite quickly and get used to it

 

[tubsmacker]

Hmmmm Something is very wrong here. Vitamin B1 deficiency is probably one of the MOST important subjects around for diabetics given that deficiency in B1 causes heart disease and more.
FACT 75 % of diabetics are deficient in Thiamin B1 Source = University of Warwick . Google it if you are unsure.
Fact. Those Diabetics probably need at Least 50 mg to replace the "washout" caused by diabetes
FACT: you need Thiamin NOT Benfotiamin
SEE
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/vitamin-b-deficiency-in-most-diabetics.40071/page-2

 

[Bombjack]

I know this is a zombie thread, but it popped up in my Google search results, so I thought I'd add an update.

I stopped taking Benfotiamine a few years ago, as it didn't do well in 3 human clinical trials (the Groningen, Melbourne and Oslo studies). Thiamine supplementation was found to provide benefits, whereas Benfotiamine was not.

In a 2010 article by Thornally & Rabbani, they stated:

"Dissimilarities in the effects of Benfotiamine compared to Thiamine are as follows:

1) Failure to correct dislipidaemia in experimental diabetes;
2) Less effective at decreasing exposure to the major AGE, MG-H1;
3) Loading of tissues with TMP.

The latter feature may underlie the decreased effectiveness of Benfotiamine as high tissue levels of TMP inhibit TPPK."

So, just a warning to people who may come across this thread - you are probably better sticking with high dose Thiamine, rather than Benfo. Studies have used doses of 100mg 3 times a day, so I would use that as a starting point.

 

[eddie1968]

I am prone to Thiamine and other Vitamin deficiencies due to extensive surgical removal of my bowel. I was pretty low in vitamins before the surgery but put it down to bad diet. Never thought diabetes could cause B1 deficiency. I get prescribed 100mg x3 daily of B1 due to malabsorption and take multivitamins too. 300mg daily is way over the RDA but more substantial doses are used in cancer/gastric and malabsorption/anorexia and alcoholism etc. Any excess is just dumped out in your urine as it’s a water soluble Vitamin.

 

[Bombjack]

I am prone to Thiamine and other Vitamin deficiencies due to extensive surgical removal of my bowel. I was pretty low in vitamins before the surgery but put it down to bad diet. Never thought diabetes could cause B1 deficiency. I get prescribed 100mg x3 daily of B1 due to malabsorption and take multivitamins too. 300mg daily is way over the RDA but more substantial doses are used in cancer/gastric and malabsorption/anorexia and alcoholism etc. Any excess is just dumped out in your urine as it’s a water soluble Vitamin.

Hi,

Diabetes causes several deficiencies - Thiamine being one of the more notable ones. I read in one of Prof. Thornalley's papers that renal clearance of Thiamine in diabetics can be over 30x normal. Hence needing to use megadoses to rectify it.

Just as worrying to me is Glutathione - which diabetics have low levels of. Given it's a crucial part of the body's antioxidant defenses - you can imagine we burn through it a lot more quickly than non-diabetics. A study found that normalising blood glucose did not effect these low levels of GT though, so I think that's another thing we as diabetics should supplement (NAC & Glycine appear to be the best way to do this).

 

[eddie1968]

Hi,

Diabetes causes several deficiencies - Thiamine being one of the more notable ones. I read in one of Prof. Thornalley's papers that renal clearance of Thiamine in diabetics can be over 30x normal. Hence needing to use megadoses to rectify it.

Just as worrying to me is Glutathione - which diabetics have low levels of. Given it's a crucial part of the body's antioxidant defenses - you can imagine we burn through it a lot more quickly than non-diabetics. A study found that normalising blood glucose did not effect these low levels of GT though, so I think that's another thing we as diabetics should supplement (NAC & Glycine appear to be the best way to do this).

Think I will do some research into this subject you brought up - thanks.

 

[Bombjack]

Think I will do some research into this subject you brought up - thanks.

Hehe no problem. Here's a good starting point, as there is good background information. This study is of uncontrolled T2 patients, but one study of T1 patients where they normalised their blood glucose as part of the study, showed no improvement in Glutathione synthesis.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/1/162

It's actually quite shocking, the more you read about some of these deficiencies, and their implications.

 

[ickihun]

Thanks @Bombjack and @eddie1968.

I'm insuffient in vit D and anaemic (low iron) so I wouldn't be surprised if we flush out more. Especially if suffering From Metformin side affect too (b12 mainly).

I will think about that supplement as it won't cause harm unlike some vitamins e.g Vit A overdoses.