Why Eat Carbs As A Type 2 Diabetic?

[Jenny15]

Orthorexia is a serious medical condition. Would you laugh and joke about anorexia and bulimia? I never said anyone here has orthorexia. If you think I did, go back to my post about it about and read it again.

I enjoy humour as much as the next person but if we are talking about a medical condition, especially a mental health condition as distressing as an eating disorder, can I suggest we please rein it in a bit? And if you think it's not a real disorder just because it hasn't yet been included in a DSM update, please read the criteria for Other Specified Feeding and Eating Disorders in the DSM V.

Disclaimer: I personally do not take offense at things like this, but for every person who posts in a thread there are usually at least ten lurkers.

 

[MrsGruffy]

About this orthorexia thing - I think the deciding feature or factor on whether something becomes a significant psychological issue is down to the impact it has on your life and/or wellbeing. For example, I don't like using public toilets. I'll do my best to avoid using them if at all possible, but this aversion doesn't prevent me from leaving the house. If I couldn't leave the house for fear that I'd need to use a public toilet, then this issue has crossed the line between a preference and an issue which needs to be dealt with or even treated.
I might decide to eat to my meter, and in doing so, I might avoid certain foods, but if being served chips as part of a pub meal means I chuck a tantrum and leave in a huff, then that's a problem. Preferring to avoid any sort of food is not an eating disorder, no matter how bizarre or logical it is. It's the impact that it has on your life, and possibly on the lives of those closest to you that tips the balance.

I'm pretty sure the high sugars are just a symptom of diabetes. I want to know why some of us react to a diet high in refined carbohydrates by ignoring insulin, and then why our bodies just go nuts making more and more of the stuff until it practically wears out the source, when it's being ignored anyway. It seems very inefficient, and our bodies are so very clever most of the time at keeping us in homeostasis, which is all rather exact for nearly everything. You can abuse your body in an infinite number of ways, and some of us seem to get away with it, while some of us don't. It can't just be down to luck and genes. If that's the case, then I feel quite pointless putting in so much effort to fix things.

 

[Guzzler]

About this orthorexia thing - I think the deciding feature or factor on whether something becomes a significant psychological issue is down to the impact it has on your life and/or wellbeing. For example, I don't like using public toilets. I'll do my best to avoid using them if at all possible, but this aversion doesn't prevent me from leaving the house. If I couldn't leave the house for fear that I'd need to use a public toilet, then this issue has crossed the line between a preference and an issue which needs to be dealt with or even treated.
I might decide to eat to my meter, and in doing so, I might avoid certain foods, but if being served chips as part of a pub meal means I chuck a tantrum and leave in a huff, then that's a problem. Preferring to avoid any sort of food is not an eating disorder, no matter how bizarre or logical it is. It's the impact that it has on your life, and possibly on the lives of those closest to you that tips the balance.

I'm pretty sure the high sugars are just a symptom of diabetes. I want to know why some of us react to a diet high in refined carbohydrates by ignoring insulin, and then why our bodies just go nuts making more and more of the stuff until it practically wears out the source, when it's being ignored anyway. It seems very inefficient, and our bodies are so very clever most of the time at keeping us in homeostasis, which is all rather exact for nearly everything. You can abuse your body in an infinite number of ways, and some of us seem to get away with it, while some of us don't. It can't just be down to luck and genes. If that's the case, then I feel quite pointless putting in so much effort to fix things.

We put in the effort to improve quality of life and to extend our lives. Not a lot we can do about luck or genes but we can have a bally good go at improving life as we live it. Take it steady.

 

[LooperCat]

That's not orthorexia.

(Not said to you in particular, but said to everyone generally.)

I’ve been accused of it, sadly. Told to lighten up, to eat meat on special occasions (I’ve been quite vocal at home in my frustration at this allergy to it) and just take Ventolin for the asthma attack it causes. Apparently that’s “having a treat”. Same with cake etc - “just treat yourself and inject for it” even though it leaves me feeling terrible with wildly swinging blood sugars.

I’d suggest people trying to force food on you that you can’t/don’t eat is more of a psychological disorder than choosing not to eat foods that make you feel rotten.

 

[Indy51]

I’ve been accused of it, sadly. Told to lighten up, to eat meat on special occasions (I’ve been quite vocal at home in my frustration at this allergy to it) and just take Ventolin for the asthma attack it causes. Apparently that’s “having a treat”. Same with cake etc - “just treat yourself and inject for it” even though it leaves me feeling terrible with wildly swinging blood sugars.

I’d suggest people trying to force food on you that you can’t/don’t eat is more of a psychological disorder than choosing not to eat foods that make you feel rotten.

Kind of like drunks who can't bear it when others don't drink and try to force drinks down their throats

 

[MrsGruffy]

I've spent the whole day watching Jason Fung on youtube. He has reassured me that I'm not fat and diabetic because I'm a slob or lack self control. Until recently I've been on medication for all sorts of things, and I've just swallowed whatever medical advice has been dished up to me without too much thought or critique. I trust the people I pay to look after my pipes and expect to get expert advice in exactly the same way as I trust the plumber to fix my loo - I don't need to go to plumber school so that I can be sure that what he tells me and what he proposes will fix the problem actually will do the job. I've found out I've been putting up with a lot of awful side effects, some of which I've been prescribed other drugs for, for dubious benefit. Like maybe 1% less likely to have a major cardiovascular event while putting up with muscle cramps and possibly being tipped over into diabetes because of the large dose of statins I'd been prescribed. You can't even trust what's in the journals. A lot of it is written by the drug companies who then pay some stooge academic to sign off on it. Loads of research which finds negatively for drugs or firmly held ideology gets suppressed and either delayed or not published. Apart from the drug reps, you'd hope that the journals are where the doctors are getting their information from, but perhaps it's not really science. If it is, why are we treated like we're crazy for going low carb, or being warned how dangerous it is from the very people who should be supporting us in making positive changes which will improve our health? (I've been told that low carb is dangerous and at the very least, should be closely supervised by a nutritionist if I must go down that route). Who am I supposed to believe? The more I find out, the more I read, the more distressing it is. If I'm putting myself through this strict regime of avoiding as many carbohydrates as possible for a 1% increase in my lifespan (I'm not saying I am.. I just have been warned I'm likely to have a heart attack tomorrow because I've stopped taking the statin) then I'd rather enjoy a pie and chips whenever I want it. I'm feeling super disillusioned and it all seems like it's too hard right now. Yes I love bacon and eggs, but not for 3 meals a day (and yes I know there's lots of stuff that is low carb, it's just not the stuff I want most of the time). AND no, I don't have any evidence for what I've written, it's not scientific fact. I'm just a person with diabetes on a forum trying to figure out which way is up, and reflecting on what I've been reading and watching.
I will say that after 2 months of sticking to low carb rather religiously but not orthorexically, my weight has gone down by 4kg, my resting pulse by 10 bpm, and my bp from 180/90 to 100/60 on average. My BGs are consistently 4 -6 except for the first one in the morning, which continues to be 7 or close to it. So anecdotally, in my n=1 experience, it seems to be doing the trick, although a couple of days off metformin during birthday week (where I didn't have any cake!) did show an average increase of 2 mmol/l at each reading. A packet of low carb licorice I just had to have also put me up to 8 at the 2 hr mark.

Gone a bit off topic.. but that being said, it seems to me there's been a lot of random stuff come up so - not sorry I think I've OD'd on Fung. So frustrating not knowing who and what to believe. Experience can be completely wrong, and it could be that controlling the sugar is just dealing with a symptom, rather than the cause, in which case, while I feel I'm taking control, it's not going to be worth the effort in the long term. I'd rather die a couple of years earlier and not have to spend so much time worrying about what I put in my mouth, but I definitely don't want my legs to fall off first or go blind.

Now I'm off to learn about fasting, and having a grumble about how the hell I will find the self control to manage fasting when I have never even been able to keep 5 kg off successfully, and that includes having had weight loss surgery.

 

[Krystyna23040]

Have been reading this thread with interest. My feelings about this are that the particular genetic make up of my body makes it much more likely that I will develop insulin resistance in response to carbs - especially the sugary starchy carbs and this will lead to me developing T2D. I have always put on weight with carbs - even if I avoid the sugary ones and stick to the starchy ones.

When diagnosed I had an HB1aC of 125 and was Immediately put on fast acting Novarapid and slow acting Lantus. I injected insulin multiple times a day for four years and over this time I religiously ate starchy carbs at every meal (as I was strongly advised to do) but the diabetic macular oedema and numbness in my foot just got progressively worse.

I was able to come off the insulin and reverse the eye and foot issues by following a low carb and healthy fat diet. I have found that I have to keep to no more than 20g of carbs - which is actually quite low. I eat industrial amounts of non starchy carbs such as kale, asparagus, broccoli, lettuce, cauliflower, spinach, aubergine , avocado etc. etc. Unfortunately any carbs over the 20g a day mean that I have to inject insulin. I feel so much better without the insulin so I keep to the 20g max. So for me personally I am better with low carbs and no starchy carbs. My HB1aC is 40 - at the upper end of normal.

 

[Guzzler]

Have been reading this thread with interest. My feelings about this are that the particular genetic make up of my body makes it much more likely that I will develop insulin resistance in response to carbs - especially the sugary starchy carbs and this will lead to me developing T2D. I have always put on weight with carbs - even if I avoid the sugary ones and stick to the starchy ones.

When diagnosed I had an HB1aC of 125 and was Immediately put on fast acting Novarapid and slow acting Lantus. I injected insulin multiple times a day for four years and over this time I religiously ate starchy carbs at every meal (as I was strongly advised to do) but the diabetic macular oedema and numbness in my foot just got progressively worse.

I was able to come off the insulin and reverse the eye and foot issues by following a low carb and healthy fat diet. I have found that I have to keep to no more than 20g of carbs - which is actually quite low. I eat industrial amounts of non starchy carbs such as kale, asparagus, broccoli, lettuce, cauliflower, spinach, aubergine , avocado etc. etc. Unfortunately any carbs over the 20g a day mean that I have to inject insulin. I feel so much better without the insulin so I keep to the 20g max. So for me personally I am better with low carbs and no starchy carbs. My HB1aC is 40 - at the upper end of normal.

Hello and welcome to the forum. You have done a magnificent job there, well done!

 

[rab5]

Have been reading this thread with interest. My feelings about this are that the particular genetic make up of my body makes it much more likely that I will develop insulin resistance in response to carbs - especially the sugary starchy carbs and this will lead to me developing T2D. I have always put on weight with carbs - even if I avoid the sugary ones and stick to the starchy ones.

When diagnosed I had an HB1aC of 125 and was Immediately put on fast acting Novarapid and slow acting Lantus. I injected insulin multiple times a day for four years and over this time I religiously ate starchy carbs at every meal (as I was strongly advised to do) but the diabetic macular oedema and numbness in my foot just got progressively worse.

I was able to come off the insulin and reverse the eye and foot issues by following a low carb and healthy fat diet. I have found that I have to keep to no more than 20g of carbs - which is actually quite low. I eat industrial amounts of non starchy carbs such as kale, asparagus, broccoli, lettuce, cauliflower, spinach, aubergine , avocado etc. etc. Unfortunately any carbs over the 20g a day mean that I have to inject insulin. I feel so much better without the insulin so I keep to the 20g max. So for me personally I am better with low carbs and no starchy carbs. My HB1aC is 40 - at the upper end of normal.

Fantastic post. Well done you

 

[lucylocket61]

They all state what we already know, that carbohydrates raise blood glucose levels in diabetics and go to great lengths to explain the reasons. That is not the issue. I did not hear any of the ones that I've viewed so far come out and categorically state that consuming carbohydrates turns non diabetic people into diabetics.

so much this. This is the debate in a nutshell. I wish I could click agree a million times.

 

[Jenny15]

I’ve been accused of it, sadly. Told to lighten up, to eat meat on special occasions (I’ve been quite vocal at home in my frustration at this allergy to it) and just take Ventolin for the asthma attack it causes. Apparently that’s “having a treat”. Same with cake etc - “just treat yourself and inject for it” even though it leaves me feeling terrible with wildly swinging blood sugars.

I’d suggest people trying to force food on you that you can’t/don’t eat is more of a psychological disorder than choosing not to eat foods that make you feel rotten.

I agree. But my posts about orthorexia weren't about people like you with a genuine allergy to certain types of food. Shame on those people trying to pressure you into eating them. I had asthma for many years and struggling for breath was one of the scariest things I've ever been through. I assume respiratory responses to food-based allergens is at least as bad, if not worse.

My post about orthorexia was about those small number of people who are limiting foods to a degree that it harms more than helps them, like the person I know locally with a BMI of 14 who sees nothing wrong with that.

I started doing LCHF and eating to my meter 9 years ago (albeit with breaks) so I'm the last person who would call that orthorexia. In fact, in the last week I've accidentally been eating about 15g of carbs a day and feeling perfectly fine most of the time. I simply found that eating carby foods made my BG swing from 5 to 12 in a short time and made me feel ill. So I started eating a lot of omelettes, bacon, mushrooms, cheese, chicken, broccoli, double cream and berries, basically. Never felt better. Each to their own, though.

 

[lucylocket61]

Orthorexia is a serious medical condition. Would you laugh and joke about anorexia and bulimia? I never said anyone here has orthorexia. If you think I did, go back to my post about it about and read it again.

I enjoy humour as much as the next person but if we are talking about a medical condition, especially a mental health condition as distressing as an eating disorder, can I suggest we please rein it in a bit? And if you think it's not a real disorder just because it hasn't yet been included in a DSM update, please read the criteria for Other Specified Feeding and Eating Disorders in the DSM V.

Disclaimer: I personally do not take offense at things like this, but for every person who posts in a thread there are usually at least ten lurkers.

I think sometimes gallows humour is used on here when things can come to close and are painful, or to deflect hurt. I feel confident no offense was intended.

I cant even remember why orthorexia came up?

 

[Jenny15]

I think sometimes gallows humour is used on here when things can come to close and are painful, or to deflect hurt. I feel confident no offense was intended.

I cant even remember why orthorexia came up?

I don't think that was the case at all. It doesn't matter if no offense was intended. Are we OK with joking about serious disorders now

See posts #116 and #120 for the *context* provided when I mentioned the word.

 

[lucylocket61]

I don't think that was the case at all. It doesn't matter if no offense was intended. Are we OK with joking about serious disorders now?

I must have missed/skimmed over the posts you mean. I do suggest that, if you see a post which has crossed the line of decency, and is offensive, or could be seen as offensive, that you report it. the mods are receptive and understanding about such reports.

 

[There is no Spoon]

Are we OK with joking about serious disorders now?

Yep.

 

[Jenny15]

I must have missed/skimmed over the posts you mean. I do suggest that, if you see a post which has crossed the line of decency, and is offensive, or could be seen as offensive, that you report it. the mods are receptive and understanding about such reports.

Thanks for the suggestion but there were so many, and they were "borderline" so I opted for mentioning it in the thread, like others do. Like I said, repeatedly, I am not offended or upset by this. I'm trying to have an adult discussion about adult issues.

 

[first14808]

Under scrutiny you will find a great deal of variation between carbohydrate consumption and the relative list of diabetes prevalence. One of the highest cohorts, Indonesia is well down the list while meat heavy Spain has double the incidence of diabetes than spud loving Ireland. Obviously, other factors are at play..

Agreed. And Spain is a Mediterranean country, and the Mediterranean diet is healthy. Or, there's a large population bordering the Med with very different dietary preferences. Or even regional variations within those countries. The dangers of generalisation.

 

[Oldvatr]

Yep.

U Betcha

 

[Oldvatr]

Agreed. And Spain is a Mediterranean country, and the Mediterranean diet is healthy. Or, there's a large population bordering the Med with very different dietary preferences. Or even regional variations within those countries. The dangers of generalisation.

One common denominator between all these different countries is the major consumption of fizzy drinks, I cannot find the equivalent worldwide sales figures for say Coca Cola, but they must be published somewhere. I did find this Guardian article that discusses this topic.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/11/coca-cola-obesity-health-studies

The WHO has published their strategy for coping with Diabetes in the future, and it is centered around restricting the intake of sugary sodas, and I believe the Gnomes of Zurich (aka Credit Suisse) has also pronounced a similar document to their investors as an annual market forecast. IDF is also banging on this same drum, but then they do have the Mediterranean Diet as their numero uno choice with plenty of fruit and green veggies as a priority for T2D, so I am not one of their staunch supporters at the moment.

http://www.who.int/diabetes/en/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ct-of-global-sugar-consumption-223288301.html

The actual CS report detail is RESTRICTED and not for public release.

I lived as a kinder in Libya (pre Gaddaffi) and we had to boil the water so drank pop copiously ( in the 50's). So I am not surprised that even the island states listed in the top 10 places for PWD will have a ready supply to hand. Especially the Phillipines and other US interests abroad.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have been to the Nile regions of Egypt several times. Cokes and Pepsis were everywhere, presumably because the water was not the purest. Not only that, but the locals ate raw sugar cane, chewing on it all day. I was offered some once - I tried it and blimey, it was sweet.