Doctor ignorance

[Gail1947]

Went to the doctor to go over sugar readings. He is about 29ish. I said I was doing the NHS diet to cure my diabetes. We got a sarcastic lecture about him only being a lowly doctor and explained how your body eats muscle and taking the medication for life was the only hope. Did manage to humour him enough to get the tablets I wanted.
Glicazide and Invokana. Needless to say we will make sure we get one of the other doctors we have seen before when I go back. The rest of the worlds medical people state that you must lower carbs to cure the type2 but in the uk they still keep banging on about lowering calories! We have been doing that for 60 years and obesity has kept rising. Cut sugar and refined flour out and change you eating for good. That is working for us, I lost 1.5stone and my husband lost 3.5 over the last year!

 

[Guzzler]

Well done on your progress.

It is a great shame that this young GP has not taken the opportunity to think outside of the dogma. The NHS has made it clear that doctors can advise patients about a dietary approach as an adjunct to the treatment of Type 2 Diabetes and Pre Diabetes and this includes a diet lower in carbs.
I agree with you that the calorie restriction 'eat less move more' approach is outdated and I hope that the GP changes his mind on this, perhaps you could leave him with information from Dr. David Unwin who has done a lot to educate doctors about the low carb approach for patients.

 

[Gail1947]

Frightened to in case we try thrown off the doctors panel? We are over 70 and don’t fancy trying to find another doctor. We left the last one because the women behind the desk would rather talk to one another than do their job!! Also the two doctors we saw were old and she was a dragon and he was pathetic! Staying here now.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I reckon it is inadvisable to offer information to doctors since it comes with the danger of him telling you to go sort it yourself. You might also end up having a row. Nod, smile take the pills offered and if they give you problems tell the doctor about it at your next visit.

 

[HSSS]

I reckon it is inadvisable to offer information to doctors since it comes with the danger of him telling you to go sort it yourself. You might also end up having a row. Nod, smile take the pills offered and if they give you problems tell the doctor about it at your next visit.

Personally I’d rather have a discussion (not a row) so I can make an informed decision than blindly take possibly outdated and incorrect information on blind faith.

I have personally been misdiagnosed several times, more than once suggested (or asked to be considered when I’m feeling tactful) what turned out to be the correct diagnosis/action so maybe that clouds my thinking.

And lying to your dr about what you take or do achieves nothing but to leave you at even greater risk of misdiagnosis and also helps perpetuate their outdated ideas. How will they know low carb works unless they know you’ve done it. They’ll just believe it was their eatwell nonsense and/or pills that you didn’t take and pat themselves on the back.

 

[ianf0ster]

Personally I’d rather have a discussion (not a row) so I can make an informed decision than blindly take possibly outdated and incorrect information on blind faith.

I have personally been misdiagnosed several times, more than once suggested (or asked to be considered when I’m feeling tactful) what turned out to be the correct diagnosis/action so maybe that clouds my thinking.

And lying to your dr about what you take or do achieves nothing but to leave you at even greater risk of misdiagnosis and also helps perpetuate their outdated ideas. How will they know low carb works unless they know you’ve done it. They’ll just believe it was their eatwell nonsense and/or pills that you didn’t take and pat themselves on the back.

That is the dilemma that (informed) patients face. In some cases we may be badly-informed from the internet, in some cases we may be better informed than our GP.

Personally I would initially tell partial truth to the doctor, so as to prevent possibility of argument and bad feelings. Then only when (if) my view seems to be working out so far as their own tests are concerned, talk to them about what I am doing and what sources I had which suggested it would work. But it is a very tricky area. Looking at it from the doctor's point of view, who would want a patient telling them how to do their job?

 

[HSSS]

That is the dilemma that (informed) patients face. In some cases we may be badly-informed from the internet, in some cases we may be better informed than our GP.

Personally I would initially tell partial truth to the doctor, so as to prevent possibility of argument and bad feelings. Then only when (if) my view seems to be working out so far as their own tests are concerned, talk to them about what I am doing and what sources I had which suggested it would work. But it is a very tricky area. Looking at it from the doctor's point of view, who would want a patient telling them how to do their job?

I agree to a point. Which is why I am careful about my research and the sources and getting it confirmed.

I try hard to use phrases like “could it be....” and “I’m concern xxx symptom might be a sign of yyyyy. What do you think? Can you explain why?” Occasionally leading to “but what about zzzzz?” If I’m yet to be convinced. I’ll ask how a medication would benefit me or what side effects might be and how quickly I should expect a noticeable effect and am honest about any reservations I have and allow them to reassure me or decline if they can’t/won’t.

Some respond better than others, happy to explain, have a discussion and even take on board what I’m saying. Some like to wave their closed minds and ancient medical degrees in my face and shut me down and refuse to have any discussion. This is when “l’d like to make an informed decision about my health and understand your recommendations “ type phrases start to fall out and I try to avoid that dr in future.

I would like to add I have been given perfectly reasonable explanations of why my thoughts are unlikely and off track and accepted those explanations happily once explained, sometimes quite simply and briefly. Sometimes I even go into an appointment with no ideas of my own

 

[Squire Fulwood]

And lying to your dr about what you take or do achieves nothing

I never lie to my doctor nor do I advocate it.

There have been a number of posters in the past who have visited their doctor and told him all about LCHF when the dogma that NICE put out and that the doctor must follow is calories and exercise. This causes friction. The poster then writes on here that they had a very uncomfortable visit to the doctors and it has left them upset.

All I advise is that if you are a knowall on the subject and you have a doctor that isn't then use a bit of tact. Nod and smile a little more.

 

[HSSS]

I never lie to my doctor nor do I advocate it.

There have been a number of posters in the past who have visited their doctor and told him all about LCHF when the dogma that NICE put out and that the doctor must follow is calories and exercise. This causes friction. The poster then writes on here that they had a very uncomfortable visit to the doctors and it has left them upset.

All I advise is that if you are a knowall on the subject and you have a doctor that isn't then use a bit of tact. Nod and smile a little more.

I hear where your coming from. Everyone must decide for themselves how best to handle their appointments.

I started with the word “personally “ for a reason. I’m a little old fashioned in the respect I want my dr to know more than me and if they don’t to find out/do tests/ send me to someone who does. I’m sorry but I won’t sit there and condone their lack of current knowledge by being silent. Low carb is now supported by the nhs and some drs do support it. I did say I try and use as much tact as possible. Apart from anything else it’s polite and more constructive. I also feel well informed is very different to being a “knowall”

 

[enb54]

My doctor didn't ask and I didn't tell, he wrote me a prescription for 3 months of metformin and I'll go for the A1C test June 07 then back to him for results. Perhaps I'll let him know what's been helping at that time...

 

[Squire Fulwood]

I hear where your coming from. Everyone must decide for themselves how best to handle their appointments.

I started with the word “personally “ for a reason. I’m a little old fashioned in the respect I want my dr to know more than me and if they don’t to find out/do tests/ send me to someone who does. I’m sorry but I won’t sit there and condone their lack of current knowledge by being silent. Low carb is now supported by the nhs and some drs do support it. I did say I try and use as much tact as possible. Apart from anything else it’s polite and more constructive. I also feel well informed is very different to being a “knowall”

I can change the word "knowall" to "If you feel you know more than your doctor on the subject".

I have been very fortunate since I have a DN who is very knowledgeable and has been supportive ever since I met her but I find it distressing to hear that other people come away from a meeting with their HCP upset. They often say this is when they mention low carb to their doctor. This is not how it is supposed to work. Low carb if you wish, get a result which speaks for itself. The pills may get the credit but not in every case.

 

[HSSS]

I find it distressing to hear that other people come away from a meeting with their HCP upset. They often say this is when they mention low carb to their doctor. This is not how it is supposed to work.

Me too and I accept lchf is often the reason. It’s sad some feel they have to hide their health and positive actions from the very person who is supposed to be helping. I guess maybe I feel for everyone like me that is comfortable having more robust discussions it might help another, who’d really rather not, in the end. Horses for courses.

 

[HSSS]

I can change the word "knowall" to "If you feel you know more than your doctor on the subject".

If it’s all the same to you I’ll stick with “well informed”. It’s less.....insulting and judgemental of me and makes no assumptions of what the dr may or may not know.

 

[Listlad]

I never lie to my doctor nor do I advocate it.

There have been a number of posters in the past who have visited their doctor and told him all about LCHF when the dogma that NICE put out and that the doctor must follow is calories and exercise. This causes friction. The poster then writes on here that they had a very uncomfortable visit to the doctors and it has left them upset.

All I advise is that if you are a knowall on the subject and you have a doctor that isn't then use a bit of tact. Nod and smile a little more.

Nod and smile....


https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/visit-to-my-gp.161584/#post-1993017

 

[HSSS]

Nod and smile....


https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/visit-to-my-gp.161584/#post-1993017

Actually the responses I can see on your thread were mostly “ b- educate on low carb” only a couple of ‘c - nod and smile’ either when getting to know the lie of the land or when ‘b’ had plainly failed. To be fair I only saw 4 or 5 direct answers so not a huge sample.

 

[Listlad]

Actually the responses I can see on your thread were mostly “ b- educate on low carb” only a couple of ‘c - nod and smile’ either when getting to know the lie of the land or when ‘b’ had plainly failed. To be fair I only saw 4 or 5 direct answers so not a huge sample.

I was merely drawing the Squires attention to the nod and smile option within my thread as a follow on to his posting.

Only 4 or 5 direct answers. Do you mean there was some derailment?

As you know, I didn’t nod and smile but had a jam packed dialogue with the chap who was a bit of a revelation, to say the least.

 

[Gail1947]

Well done on your progress.

It is a great shame that this young GP has not taken the opportunity to think outside of the dogma. The NHS has made it clear that doctors can advise patients about a dietary approach as an adjunct to the treatment of Type 2 Diabetes and Pre Diabetes and this includes a diet lower in carbs.
I agree with you that the calorie restriction 'eat less move more' approach is outdated and I hope that the GP changes his mind on this, perhaps you could leave him with information from Dr. David Unwin who has done a lot to educate doctors about the low carb approach for patients.

The NHS suggestion is yet again lower the calories!!!

 

[Guzzler]

The NHS suggestion is yet again lower the calories!!!

I saw a great take on this topic on Twitter this morning. The tweet said "counting calories to lose weight is a bit like holding your breath, it may work for a while but in the end you're going to have to give in".

 

[Daibell]

I'm lucky to have young and very helpful nurse who also covers diabetes. On the last visit when my HBA1c was higher than it should have been she said to try reducing my carbs a bit further to help. I was pleasantly surprised. On a separate note I look forward to the day when everyone stops mentioning 'calories' when it relates to your diet. They are a useful measure of energy output in the gym but of little value in what you eat.

 

[Gail1947]

I'm lucky to have young and very helpful nurse who also covers diabetes. On the last visit when my HBA1c was higher than it should have been she said to try reducing my carbs a bit further to help. I was pleasantly surprised. On a separate note I look forward to the day when everyone stops mentioning 'calories' when it relates to your diet. They are a useful measure of energy output in the gym but of little value in what you eat.