Confused as to my status - any thoughts?

[Mungobean]

I find the Libre readings to be consistently different to a finger prick, so could you not buy a glucose monitor (old fashioned finger prick) instead of Libre sensors? Cheaper and more accurate? It might give you more accurate data? Just a thought, but I’m new to all this too.

 

[finzi1966]

On reading your post (which did make me smile, I just love the enthusiasm which which you’ve embraced everything!) I would say that you’re probably not actually diabetic but seem to have a slightly reduced ability to process carbs. The thirst is a red herring I think. People hear “thirst” and go straight to “diabetes” but thirst in diabetes is a result of high urine output caused by chronically severely elevated blood glucose - the renal threshold for blood glucose is around 10mmol so if it is consistently this or higher you will start peeing more and therefore being thirsty. This definitely doesn’t seem to be the case with you, your figures don’t in any way suggest that your average blood glucose is 10 or more.

Your Libre will give you an estimated HbA1C soon (I think it takes a week or so).

It sounds like your old diet wasn’t very healthy really so the change is 100% guaranteed to be a good thing (but I wouldn’t have thought you needed to be too fixated on it).

Enlarged prostate doesn’t make you pee more, it just makes you pee less efficiently. So thirst wouldn’t be an outcome. What older men with enlarged prostates find is more that they have to get up once or more in the night, have trouble “starting” (slow to flow) and don’t fully empty (so they end up having to get up again).

 

[NameNotFound]

Thanks Finzi. I didn't realise that it gave an estimate of Hb1A1C. I've checked and it says 38mmol/mol (5.6%) and that's in the normal range. However, I'd guess this is a bit on the low side as I was trying to eat low carb for the first week of wearing it. The second Boots test kit came yesterday and I can see it has been received at the lab today. So hopefully the real number will come soon.

You are right though that my diet has been very poor and that what I'm doing now is a huge improvement. Thanks for the comments about the thirst. The plan now is to get off the diet pepsi on Boxing Day by going cold turkey.

I've also entered a marathon to encourage me to get a bit fitter. I have just over 10 months now to find my trainers!

Thanks also Mungobean. I quite like the idea of looking at trends over the longer term rather than at a particular time. I have found out that I'm pretty poor at remembering numbers (did that say 6.8 or 8.6 or was that the time before?) and so having the numbers downloadable makes it a lot easier for me.

 

[Mbaker]

There are some wide varied views to your question. My views are closer to those of Dr Richard Bernstein who would advocate numbers alot lower than in some of the posts.

I would say you respond well to low carb and should consider this for your lifestyle choice indefinitely. @bulkbiker is right in that diet is the primary driver; it can be either 100% or in the region of 85-90% of the health solution. Exercise is an optimisation for either a goal, general fitness or underpinning the health aspect.

We tend to advocate what is our preference, so here is mine:

1. Currently 20,000 steps per day (up from 15,000 as part of my Covid recovery protocol)
2. 2 x Hard resistance training per day (dead lifts, squats, bench pressing mostly)
3. 2 meals a day. Keto / Carnivore / P.E. Diet mashup - Meat, Fish, Unsweetened Yogurt, Egg Protein Bread, a few nuts, berries. I also have beetroot, butternut squash, half lemons / limes, salads, dark chocolate and low carb veg. Some of these are medium carb but they don't spike my limits (or produce a next day surprise).
4. Focus on sleep

This produces no hunger. Large satisfying meals from pancakes, curries, to roasts, sandwiches and desserts (coconut, almond, etc), strength for my exercise and generally physical and mental well being. I invest so much in resistance exercise to build muscle, this I believe is instrumental in bringing down my stratospheric HbA1c, and providing a low fasting blood glucose and post postprandial rise; so this is my main takeway for you is to consider investing some of your running time into muscle building - its a free (once you earned it) way of reducing blood glucose.

 

[boggle]

If going cold turkey re the pepsi max doesn't work, try switching some of them out gradually to black coffee or teas and then you can just gradually reduce these. I think a lot of sweeteners might be bad for the gut bacteria. I used to consume a lot of caffeine, I can now stick to mostly just having one coffee a day.

 

[Mungobean]

Thanks Finzi. I didn't realise that it gave an estimate of Hb1A1C. I've checked and it says 38mmol/mol (5.6%) and that's in the normal range. However, I'd guess this is a bit on the low side as I was trying to eat low carb for the first week of wearing it. The second Boots test kit came yesterday and I can see it has been received at the lab today. So hopefully the real number will come soon.

You are right though that my diet has been very poor and that what I'm doing now is a huge improvement. Thanks for the comments about the thirst. The plan now is to get off the diet pepsi on Boxing Day by going cold turkey.

I've also entered a marathon to encourage me to get a bit fitter. I have just over 10 months now to find my trainers!

Thanks also Mungobean. I quite like the idea of looking at trends over the longer term rather than at a particular time. I have found out that I'm pretty poor at remembering numbers (did that say 6.8 or 8.6 or was that the time before?) and so having the numbers downloadable makes it a lot easier for me.

I can understand that. I like looking at my trends. My trouble has been getting out of the habit of finger prick testing after every Libre reading, to see how far out it is! It kind of defeats the object! I am a managing to ‘sit on my hands’ and only double check if I get a particularly extreme reading. All the best of luck with it all!

 

[NameNotFound]

A quick update.

I got my Hb1A1C test result today - 40.9mmol/mol. This is just below the 42mmol/mol point for the start of the prediabetes range shown here: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/what-is-hba1c.html So that is good news.

But I've found some other sites that suggest that 39mmol/mol is the start of the prediabetic range, which is less good: https://labs.selfdecode.com/blog/hba1c-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-important/ It also talks about the range being between 20 and 38mmol/mol "in healthy people".

So the plan is to continue to eat low carb and see what happens by the time I use the Freestyle Libre 2 CGM mid-February.

 

[NameNotFound]

There are some wide varied views to your question. My views are closer to those of Dr Richard Bernstein who would advocate numbers alot lower than in some of the posts.

I would say you respond well to low carb and should consider this for your lifestyle choice indefinitely. @bulkbiker is right in that diet is the primary driver; it can be either 100% or in the region of 85-90% of the health solution. Exercise is an optimisation for either a goal, general fitness or underpinning the health aspect.

We tend to advocate what is our preference, so here is mine:

1. Currently 20,000 steps per day (up from 15,000 as part of my Covid recovery protocol)
2. 2 x Hard resistance training per day (dead lifts, squats, bench pressing mostly)
3. 2 meals a day. Keto / Carnivore / P.E. Diet mashup - Meat, Fish, Unsweetened Yogurt, Egg Protein Bread, a few nuts, berries. I also have beetroot, butternut squash, half lemons / limes, salads, dark chocolate and low carb veg. Some of these are medium carb but they don't spike my limits (or produce a next day surprise).
4. Focus on sleep

This produces no hunger. Large satisfying meals from pancakes, curries, to roasts, sandwiches and desserts (coconut, almond, etc), strength for my exercise and generally physical and mental well being. I invest so much in resistance exercise to build muscle, this I believe is instrumental in bringing down my stratospheric HbA1c, and providing a low fasting blood glucose and post postprandial rise; so this is my main takeway for you is to consider investing some of your running time into muscle building - its a free (once you earned it) way of reducing blood glucose.

Thanks MBaker. I don't know about Dr Richard Bernstein but I can see that there are some vidoes of interviews with him so I will watch a few over the next few days.

In terms of your preferences:

1. Without running, I'm averaging 17,000 or so a day at the moment.

2. 2x hard resistance training sessions a day!!!! I'd struggle with that. I'm aiming for three times a week.

3. I'm not sure about going as low on the carb as keto. I do want to increase the range of the stuff I eat. It feels like I just eat (i) eggs (some times with bacon), and (ii) chicken and mixed veg. Thanks for the suggestions, I have no idea what egg protein bread is and will find a recipe.

4. I'm very deficient on sleep at the moment.

 

[Mbaker]

Thanks MBaker. I don't know about Dr Richard Bernstein but I can see that there are some vidoes of interviews with him so I will watch a few over the next few days.

In terms of your preferences:

1. Without running, I'm averaging 17,000 or so a day at the moment.

2. 2x hard resistance training sessions a day!!!! I'd struggle with that. I'm aiming for three times a week.

3. I'm not sure about going as low on the carb as keto. I do want to increase the range of the stuff I eat. It feels like I just eat (i) eggs (some times with bacon), and (ii) chicken and mixed veg. Thanks for the suggestions, I have no idea what egg protein bread is and will find a recipe.

4. I'm very deficient on sleep at the moment.

Great.

I am in a hurry to get back to my pre covid stats.

The meter will assist you in what you can eat, I have been able to bring in beetroot and butternut squash (forgot the swede and onion as well).

Without the sleep, your results will be diminished. Proven facts are higher fasting glucose, more insulin required for the same food load, less fat metabolism, so try not to leave money on the table.

 

[MJC1]

Hello, I've spent a lot of time going through this forum and have found a lot of useful information on it. I've also been very impressed about how friendly and helpful everyone seems to be.

My question is really around whether I'm diabetic, prediabetic or not. I've not been to the GP yet. When I woke up I got the following blood glucose levels from Freestyle Libre CGM:

- Saturday: 7.7 mmol/L - Diabetes - change my eating from incredibly high carbs to low carb after finding this site
- Sunday: 6.0 mmol/L - Ah, prediabetic - continue low carb
- This morning: 5.2 mmol/L - Normal - so I posted this!

Any thoughts?

About me

I'm a 53 year old male, 78kg, BMI 25.5. I used to exercise a lot between 2005 and 2015 but now exercise much less. I walk the dogs a lot (averaged around 20,000 steps a day between July and October but 15,000 a day now that there is less daylight).

Until Saturday morning, I had a very high carb diet. I love chocolate, cakes, pastries, bread, etc. I mostly drink cherry Pepsi Max as I'm addicted to it (headaches if I stop or drink less of it).

With the exception of the dry mouth bit below, I'm generally healthy but do have a sore back as some of my disks have deteriorated (which I've had MRI etc for) but this is pretty manageable most of the time.

Why I got a free CGM

I'm quite worried about always being thirsty / having a dry mouth. This keeps me awake a lot (and has done so for a couple of years) as I keep having to have a sip of water during the night. I also drink a lot (mostly cherry Pepsi Max as I'm addicted to it) and need to pee a lot. I also need to pee in a rush (e.g. no need now but in a few minutes time there will be a great urge to).

I saw the advert for a free Freestyle Libre CGM after listening to a podcast where someone talked about blood sugar and thought I'd give it a go. I got it at Friday lunch time and it said 5.8 mmol/L. Great. So I took the dogs out for a walk, ate a load of chocolate (2x giant chocolate button bags - over 200g) and saw my blood glucose go up to 7.6mmol/L. A bit later I had a big packet of mango and it went up from 5.6 to 12.8mmol/L and I got quite worried. Within two hours of eating, it had gone down to 6.2mmol/L though.

Saturday and Sunday

When I woke up on Saturday with 7.7 mmol/L (with no food for ten hours before) I was quite worried and spent a lot of time reading the posts on the forum. After quite a while I decided that:

1. I needed to be very serious about sorting myself out.

2. The best way of doing that would be to substantially reduce my carbs and exercise more (walking, weights and CV). I'd also ween myself of cherry Pepsi Max.

3. I was going to start immediately and be the one who says "no, I can't eat that" rather than let things slip.

So I went to Lidl, bought a load of proper food and ate it (eggs, chicken, mixed vegs, nuts, etc). I'd planned around 50g of carbs and 1,600 cals a day. Both days turned out to be around 43g and 1,500 cals (measured with scales and myfitnesspal). I also walked the dogs lots (but with no chocolate).

I was quite pleased when Sunday morning's waking blood glucose was 6.0 (prediabetes range) but completely confused when this morning's was 5.2 mmol/L (normal). I did have a go with a keto stick and it said that I had traces of keytones.

Being completely confused, I signed up here and wrote this rather long post.

Any thoughts please?

My plan is to assume that I have diabetes or

Hello, I've spent a lot of time going through this forum and have found a lot of useful information on it. I've also been very impressed about how friendly and helpful everyone seems to be.

My question is really around whether I'm diabetic, prediabetic or not. I've not been to the GP yet. When I woke up I got the following blood glucose levels from Freestyle Libre CGM:

- Saturday: 7.7 mmol/L - Diabetes - change my eating from incredibly high carbs to low carb after finding this site
- Sunday: 6.0 mmol/L - Ah, prediabetic - continue low carb
- This morning: 5.2 mmol/L - Normal - so I posted this!

Any thoughts?

About me

I'm a 53 year old male, 78kg, BMI 25.5. I used to exercise a lot between 2005 and 2015 but now exercise much less. I walk the dogs a lot (averaged around 20,000 steps a day between July and October but 15,000 a day now that there is less daylight).

Until Saturday morning, I had a very high carb diet. I love chocolate, cakes, pastries, bread, etc. I mostly drink cherry Pepsi Max as I'm addicted to it (headaches if I stop or drink less of it).

With the exception of the dry mouth bit below, I'm generally healthy but do have a sore back as some of my disks have deteriorated (which I've had MRI etc for) but this is pretty manageable most of the time.

Why I got a free CGM

I'm quite worried about always being thirsty / having a dry mouth. This keeps me awake a lot (and has done so for a couple of years) as I keep having to have a sip of water during the night. I also drink a lot (mostly cherry Pepsi Max as I'm addicted to it) and need to pee a lot. I also need to pee in a rush (e.g. no need now but in a few minutes time there will be a great urge to).

I saw the advert for a free Freestyle Libre CGM after listening to a podcast where someone talked about blood sugar and thought I'd give it a go. I got it at Friday lunch time and it said 5.8 mmol/L. Great. So I took the dogs out for a walk, ate a load of chocolate (2x giant chocolate button bags - over 200g) and saw my blood glucose go up to 7.6mmol/L. A bit later I had a big packet of mango and it went up from 5.6 to 12.8mmol/L and I got quite worried. Within two hours of eating, it had gone down to 6.2mmol/L though.

Saturday and Sunday

When I woke up on Saturday with 7.7 mmol/L (with no food for ten hours before) I was quite worried and spent a lot of time reading the posts on the forum. After quite a while I decided that:

1. I needed to be very serious about sorting myself out.

2. The best way of doing that would be to substantially reduce my carbs and exercise more (walking, weights and CV). I'd also ween myself of cherry Pepsi Max.

3. I was going to start immediately and be the one who says "no, I can't eat that" rather than let things slip.

So I went to Lidl, bought a load of proper food and ate it (eggs, chicken, mixed vegs, nuts, etc). I'd planned around 50g of carbs and 1,600 cals a day. Both days turned out to be around 43g and 1,500 cals (measured with scales and myfitnesspal). I also walked the dogs lots (but with no chocolate).

I was quite pleased when Sunday morning's waking blood glucose was 6.0 (prediabetes range) but completely confused when this morning's was 5.2 mmol/L (normal). I did have a go with a keto stick and it said that I had traces of keytones.

Being completely confused, I signed up here and wrote this rather long post.

Any thoughts please?

My plan is to assume that I have diabetes or am prediabetic (because of always being thirsty) and continue eating low carbs, continue walking a lot, start weights and CV exercise. I don't like GPs and so I've done a deal with my wife that means that I will go in three months' time if things don't look good then. I'm likely to buy some more CGM sensors when the free one runs out and wear them from time-to-time rather than for the whole of the three months.

I'd welcome any thoughts but I'm fully aware that no diagnosis can be given!

Thank you

You need to put your concern of the GP aside and urgently book a telephone appointment with them. Most likely you will get a blood test referral.
Boots the chemist told me not to waste my money on any glucose tests and to be guided by the GP/ diabetes nurse. The glucose tests are only necessary (apparently) if you are type 1 and sugar levels are uncontrollable.
It’s much easier to manage if you have a confirmed diagnosis from your GP.
Remember Covid19 is around and you will be vulnerable if you have diabetes. If undiagnosed you will be slipping through gaps in the system.
My diagnosis was a shock during lockdown but due to severe back problems following surgery which didn’t work and lack of exercise should have been expected. My back has now had corrective surgery and exercise is easier but …
remember it is possible to reverse type 2 with medical support

 

[bulkbiker]

remember it is possible to reverse type 2 with medical support

Although for some of us far easier to do so without it!

 

[EllieM]

Boots the chemist told me not to waste my money on any glucose tests and to be guided by the GP/ diabetes nurse. The glucose tests are only necessary (apparently) if you are type 1 and sugar levels are uncontrollable.
It’s much easier to manage if you have a confirmed diagnosis from your GP.

@NameNotFound has already had a result from Boots that puts him just below the prediabetes borderline. I'm assuming that an hba1c from the GP would be more accurate, though given that the prediabetic level is fairly arbitrary I'm not sure how much difference that really makes. There's been debate on these forums on whether it's best to get an official T2 diagnosis (so you get automatic NHS checks) or whether it's better to never progress past prediabetes.

Though the NHS discourages blood testing for T2s, a cynical person might assume that that is because they don't want to pay for the testing strips. If you are prepared to modify your diet to reduce your blood sugars then a meter is very useful, as it will tell you what foods your body can and can't tolerate (at least at the beginning while you are working this out). And while you are still prediabetic, the changes needed to normalise levels are likely to be far less than those needed once full blown T2.

My husband (with two T2 parents so genetically very T2 prone) has always been slim though he gained a bit of fat round his middle.. Recently he had an hba1c of 37 and went low carb with Type 1 me. I haven't lost any weight (maybe a kg but at least I haven't gained) but he's down to 32" jeans from 36" and has a bmi in the high teens. No idea about his hba1c yet but I'd be very surprised if it hadn't reduced. (I'm happy for him but yes, sometimes I feel jealous ).