Type 2 2

[Loobielooz_]

Hi. I am regularly testing mmol and trying to low carb, but each time I eat a meal with no carbs (I.e. carbs breakfast and tea, non at lunch) I have a huge drop and hypo. Should I be eating a small amount at each meal rather than cutting out.

 

[bulkbiker]

Are you taking any medication for your Type 2?
What level is your blood when you get the hypo symptoms?

 

[Loobielooz_]

Hi there,
I'm not on any meds just trying to alter my diet. My blood level is generally 3.8 - 4.2 when I get hypo symptoms but the shakes, hunger type pains and sweating can start at a level of 5.0 if I'm moving around a lot I.e. housework

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

My guess is that your body is adapting to having lower blood glucose levels and what you're experiencing is called a false hypo. Over time you'll adapt to having normal blood glucose levels.

 

[britishpub]

You're probably just hungry.

 

[Loobielooz_]

I must admit feeling faint etc doesn't feel like a false hypo, but thanks for the info. I'm only 8 weeks into T2.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi there,
I'm not on any meds just trying to alter my diet. My blood level is generally 3.8 - 4.2 when I get hypo symptoms but the shakes, hunger type pains and sweating can start at a level of 5.0 if I'm moving around a lot I.e. housework

My guess would also be that your body is adjusting to lower levels than you have been used to. Those are great numbers especially after only 8 weeks well done. Maybe try some salt as we can excrete more than usual when low carbing and maybe a creamy coffee to get some good fats into your system without causing an insulin reaction.

 

[Loobielooz_]

Having a creamy coffee as I type. I'm following the Type 2 programme and my highs are in the 13's and lows 3's all in the space of a couple of hours. Maybe I do just need to get used to low carbing and do it slowly. My hypos for last 7 days are 2 and my hypers 12!!!! I'm at gp Thursday about something else but hopefully my appointment will give me time to discuss this. Have read up on reactive hypoglycemia and think I'm confusing myself, there is a lot to take in. Thanks everyone

 

[bulkbiker]

Having a creamy coffee as I type. I'm following the Type 2 programme and my highs are in the 13's and lows 3's all in the space of a couple of hours. Maybe I do just need to get used to low carbing and do it slowly. My hypos for last 7 days are 2 and my hypers 12!!!! I'm at gp Thursday about something else but hopefully my appointment will give me time to discuss this. Have read up on reactive hypoglycemia and think I'm confusing myself, there is a lot to take in. Thanks everyone

Oh.. 13-3 in a couple of hours sounds pretty dramatic.. that should not really be happening if you are "just" a Type 2 low carbing.. not sure how you get checked out for RH but maybe @Brunneria or @Lamont D could be of assistance here..

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome
(and thanks @bulkbiker for tagging me )

13-3 does sound dramatic - and perfectly possible for someone with RH. But we (RHers) would have to be eating carbs in order to get the 13s, which would then lead to the 3s as the body over-produces insulin to drive blood glucose down after the 13... If we avoid the carbs, we also avoid the spike-and-drop cycle, which means we then don't get the lows.

So, I have to ask:
what are your blood glucose numbers before food?
and what foods/portion sizes have you eaten to get the highs of 13?
and what are the timings of your highs and lows (in relation to the food intake)?

None of us here can diagnose you, or give medical advice so you will need to discuss this with your doc, but we may be able to give you some suggestions on food, portions and testing, etc. which could help a lot.

It is also worth bearing in mind that glucose intolerance comes in different forms, and shows itself differently for different people. Hopefully your doc will listen and take your concerns seriously.

 

[Loobielooz_]

Thanks for the very quick responses. My mmol before meals average's at around a 6 ( 5.5-7.7mmol)? The highs between 10 and 13 are always after breakfast (which is always 2 Slices of gluten free toast and butter or oatflakes/porridge and fruit with sweetener) and occasional after evening meal 11 being the average 2 hours after breakfast. I've always eaten carbs at every meal and have put weight on over last 3 years (3 stone)never being able to stick to weight wTchers or slimming world due to the hypos when eating reduced carbs. This explains the continual tummy pain and feeling faint, plus shakes with weight watchers 3 months ago. RH sounds like what's happening and will definitely discuss this with my doc. Thanks so much guys. This site is invaluable

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, it does sound classic hypoglycaemia, but as has been said we can't diagnose you.

Obviously, your Hba1c confirmed your T2 diagnosis but you could have high insulin resistance, high insulin levels and high glucose levels.
Until your fasting levels return to normal levels constantly, your T2 diagnosis will always be noticed first.
When you see your doctor ask for a referral, if you have a food diary take that with you to show that something unusual is happening.
In the meantime, if you have enough test strips, check pre meal, and every half hour to track your levels after a medium carb meal. You should see something if you have Hypoglycaemia.
I use to go to double figures quickly, and hypo about three hours or later.

Having hypos on no meds is unusual and your GP should do something about it!

Best wishes

Keep us informed.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi again,

Just to clarify:
Your original question was about having low bg after not eating carbs.
But from your later posts, you seem to be eating quite a few carbs (porridge/toast etc. for breakfast) and then experiencing highs and then lows.
Sorry if I have misunderstood?
Are you getting lows after all your meals? whether they have carbs, or not?

Hopefully your doc will pursue this with you, and organise some proper tests.
By the way, if he suggests a 2 hr glucose tolerance test, done at the surgery, then it is very unlikely to pick up RH.
I understand that the proper way to identify RH is to do at least a 5 hr glucose tolerance test, and this is usually done at a hospital. There are also 72 hr fasting tests that may be done, to eliminate other conditions.

Just for info, if I (with RH) ate the amounts of carbs you are having for breakfast, I would be experiencing a hyper, followed by a hypo, followed by a day where I felt as though I had been run over by a truck. That is not to say that you have RH, but it does suggest (to me) that you need to get a proper investigation into what is happening.

Hope that helps!

 

[Loobielooz_]

Hi. Sorry for the confusion, I am VERY confused too . A good example of my days sounds exactly like your last paragraph . I understand that in no way can anyone tell me exactly what's going on its just affected me for over 3 years and im tired. I think the testing every half hour and food diary are a brilliant idea as my levels are all over the place.
I try to cut out carbs at lunchtime, this is when my problems start within 20mins of eating scrambled egg with mushrooms and bacon. consequently i hypo and gorge on carbs and lucozade until i feel better and so on....
will let you all know what my gp has advised, if any given!!!

 

[Resurgam]

Oddly enough I was just reading about what you are experiencing - when someone is addicted to carbs they just have to have them, they feel better for a while and then react to the consequences of the high blood sugars.
Low carb eating means having low carb foods, toast and porridge spike many people here - they simply do not feature on my menu.
I don't know what 'the type two program' is - but if it is a print out diet sheet from you dr or nurse I suggest tearing it up at once - blood glucose that high can do damage to your eyes and tiny blood vessels.

Try to work out a menu which spreads out the carbs you intend to eat throughout the day, with perhaps slightly fewer in the mornings as that seems to be when insulin resistance is highest. As you are starting off try to eat meals which do not spike your blood glucose levels above a particular number - you might have to try for ten at first, then gradually reduce it as you get more control.
I always used to get a sudden drop in energy levels when at school and college, mid afternoon I would feel myself fading - all I wanted was to go to sleep. That came back a few weeks ago as I am eating fewer carbs consistently now trying to reduce my weight rather than my blood glucose levels.
With high insulin levels, as your resistance to it goes down your glucose levels fall, and you can't get access to your stores of fat or glycogen, if you can reduce the output of insulin, in response to eating carbs then there should be more stable blood glucose levels.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi. Sorry for the confusion, I am VERY confused too . A good example of my days sounds exactly like your last paragraph . I understand that in no way can anyone tell me exactly what's going on its just affected me for over 3 years and im tired. I think the testing every half hour and food diary are a brilliant idea as my levels are all over the place.
I try to cut out carbs at lunchtime, this is when my problems start within 20mins of eating scrambled egg with mushrooms and bacon. consequently i hypo and gorge on carbs and lucozade until i feel better and so on....
will let you all know what my gp has advised, if any given!!!

It is all very confusing, isn't it?
It has all the symptoms of hypoglycaemia but more.
Eating low carb, then gorging in your words would throw my body all over the place!
If you suffer from high insulin in any way or form, then constant blood glucose levels are essential, the symptoms, shaking etc, are the signs your body is telling you that it needs something, like more glucose and your metabolism is imbalanced.

If I was you, I would refrain from lucozade or any sugary drink, if you feel shaky, I would eat something small with some carbs and eat again about twenty minutes later. the rebound effect will give you horrible symptoms and your blood levels will bounce all over the place!

You definitely need that referral, I would insist on it!

 

[Loobielooz_]

The type 2 programme is something I signed up to here. You learn about hypoglycemia and how to spot it/ control it. I get my meter, strips and lancets every quarter. It's much less expensive than buying weekly yourself. As I've said previously it's all very new and I've had next to no help from my surgery. Apart from the usual eat more veg etc. and I have IBS and wheat intolerance!!!! Ah well i will get there, you guys have.

 

[Brunneria]

I try to cut out carbs at lunchtime, this is when my problems start within 20mins of eating scrambled egg with mushrooms and bacon. consequently i hypo and gorge on carbs and lucozade until i feel better and so on....

This is interesting.

It may be worth pointing out that there is no way you would be expecting to get blood glucose rising within 20 mins of a meal of scrambled egg, mushrooms and bacon. They are all foods that release much more slowly than 20 mins.

If I ate that meal, I wouldn't expect to see a bg rise for... um... approx an hour. Maybe 2-3 hours. And then the rise would be from protein, not from carbs, since it is basically a carb free meal.

Which leads me to speculate that maybe the drop you are experiencing 20 mins after lunch, is a result of the high you got after your toast/porridge breakfast. Which would mean that you were already plummeting towards a hypo before you ate your eggs and bacon.

What do you think, @Lamont D ?
Do you see what I mean?

You can test it, if you like. Don't have the carbs for breakfast. Have the bacon, egg and mushroom instead. Then test like a hawk all morning. If that protein meal doesn't give you a hypo at 20 mins after eating, then my suggestion above many have merit.

(Of course, I may be completely wrong. But running these little self experiments allows you to map out what is happening, and will, in time, give you an excellent understanding of how YOUR body reacts, in its own unique way, to the food you eat)

 

[Loobielooz_]

This is interesting.

It may be worth pointing out that there is no way you would be expecting to get blood glucose rising within 20 mins of a meal of scrambled egg, mushrooms and bacon. They are all foods that release much more slowly than 20 mins.

If I ate that meal, I wouldn't expect to see a bg rise for... um... approx an hour. Maybe 2-3 hours. And then the rise would be from protein, not from carbs, since it is basically a carb free meal.

Which leads me to speculate that maybe the drop you are experiencing 20 mins after lunch, is a result of the high you got after your toast/porridge breakfast. Which would mean that you were already plummeting towards a hypo before you ate your eggs and bacon.

What do you think, @Lamont D ?
Do you see what I mean?

You can test it, if you like. Don't have the carbs for breakfast. Have the bacon, egg and mushroom instead. Then test like a hawk all morning. If that protein meal doesn't give you a hypo at 20 mins after eating, then my suggestion above many have merit.

(Of course, I may be completely wrong. But running these little self experiments allows you to map out what is happening, and will, in time, give you an excellent understanding of how YOUR body reacts, in its own unique way, to the food you eat)

I think thats a good idea. I've made up a table to show gp and am testing every half hour for two days. My main spike is always the morning then I struggle to keep stable for the rest of the day. Thanks guys

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I think thats a good idea. I've made up a table to show gp and am testing every half hour for two days. My main spike is always the morning then I struggle to keep stable for the rest of the day. Thanks guys

With @Brunneria all the way.
If you start the day with carbohydrates then you are on the roller coaster for the rest of the day.
Coffee with butter and cream is always a good start to the day if you are dairy tolerant.
Eggs scrambled in butter are a good breakfast.

If you can start the day stable then hopefully the rest of the day will be easier.