20:4 fasting

[speaker01]

Hi, been type2 for 30 years. I have just completed 5 days on the 20:4 fast. although I have stuck to the guidelines and done fairly well, but been disappointed with my readings. Nothing below 7.8 and sometimes these figures went up if I got up to walk about. I didnt need to inject a couple days and when I did it was just get the figures down a bit. The numbers get to a level and seem to stick there. I am not one for exercise unless somebody gives me a kick hahaha
Any ideas, suggestions. Drinking hydrogenated water.
Please be kind.

 

[Pipp]

Hi @speaker01 .

I really don’t know the answer. Hoping someone else will. I can’t be of any use as I am not on insulin and it is a long time since I did any long term fasting.

I am being kind as possible by saying ‘welcome ‘ , and wishing you well.

 

[KennyA]

Hi, been type2 for 30 years. I have just completed 5 days on the 20:4 fast. although I have stuck to the guidelines and done fairly well, but been disappointed with my readings. Nothing below 7.8 and sometimes these figures went up if I got up to walk about. I didnt need to inject a couple days and when I did it was just get the figures down a bit. The numbers get to a level and seem to stick there. I am not one for exercise unless somebody gives me a kick hahaha
Any ideas, suggestions. Drinking hydrogenated water.
Please be kind.

Hi - I think that what you're seeing is your liver in action. One of the many jobs done by livers is balancing and maintaining blood glucose levels. Unfortunately livers get very used to having high levels and in the short term will do their best to keep BG high.

So for the past week I would guess that your liver has been busy creating glucose (from its stores and possibly from bodyfat) and keeping your levels up where they've been - which would be a bit higher than you'd want. This may be why levels go up when you move about - it's the liver reacting to the exercise by dumping a bit more glucose in case you need it.

It took my liver a good few months to accept that I didn't need those higher levels it had got used to. Livers are slow learners but they get there eventually. It sounds though that you've stuck well to a fasting routine for a week, and could go longer.

Are you reducing carbs at the same time as fasting?

 

[Antje77]

I didnt need to inject a couple days and when I did it was just get the figures down a bit.

What type(s) of insulin are you on, and how do you decide on your doses?

 

[Chris24Main]

Hi @speaker01 - yes - any more details on what you were eating and when, and how that related to your insulin doses would help to reply without too much assumption. Could you also confirm whether you are getting readings from CGM or blood testing? Obviously you need to be super careful about making any sudden changes if you are also injecting insulin.

5 days on 20:4 - would that mean only eating during 4 hours in a 24 hour period for a consecutive 5 day period?

Simply put, I think your liver is just going to fill in the gaps for 5 days - as @KennyA suggests, it is much more capable of generating glucose than we typically give it credit for - it takes a while to teach it new tricks, so to speak. That isn't to say it won't have had an effect - from what you say, your insulin requirement must have dropped, and that's a good thing, you just may not see it in the glucose numbers immediately.

 

[speaker01]

Because I was managing to stick to the water fast great ( my opinion) I decided to do the full fortnight. As I type this I am on day 4 of my second week. I mainly ate boiled eggs, bacon, the odd slice of sourdough bread, cauliflower, mushrooms. I did have one of these small cartons of dried mash. As regards my insulin, I have to confess that I have stopped altogether. My levels hav been around 7.8 to 14. The 14 was because I did eat some herb crackers the night before and my levels was at 11.8 at waking. Thank you for the encouraging words. I was beginning to feel that all my efforts were in vain. Any thought on whether or not I should carry on this water fast for another week?

 

[Chris24Main]

Can't really say, as I've no experience in fasting like that, but I'm a big fan of fasting myself, and I think it passes the "have people done this for a long time" test.

I think you are probably your own best judge - do you feel well? do you feel intolerably hungry? do you feel tired and listless? Are your BG levels safe? If all those answer the right way, do what feels good. Just be careful to end your fast gently.

Can I also ask - you say you stopped your insulin. I cannot comment on that directly, but I was curious how you have communicated that with your GP? -

 

[speaker01]

Frightened that they will not be supportive but rather shoot it down in flames.

 

[Chris24Main]

OK - got it.
And I totally understand.
With the solid proviso that I'm only talking about myself here -

I was in a particular position, I was wearing a CGM, and had been instructed to stop insulin and start metformin and statins. I had just had a C-Peptide test, and was re-diagnosed from Type 1 to Type 2. None of that is particularly important or relevant to your situation, just giving context to my thinking.

From some initial reading up, I figured that I would benefit much more from quite aggressive fasting and immediately cutting out all carbs. This was actually prior to joining this forum.
I also needed to convince my wife that I wasn't doing anything to harm myself, and my daughter had just "recovered" from an eating disorder where she was not eating.

So - I basically came up with a plan. I agreed with my wife, that I would set an appointment to see my GP for about a month in the future. During that time, I would build up a set of data that would earn permission from my GP rather than ask for a blessing.
Independently, I had an honest talk with my daughter - this was about health, not weight. She was more worried that not eating for a whole day was the slippery slope of something dark - I needed to be sure I was not triggering anything for her.

I also bought some "daily green" supplement so that I could be sure I wasn't going to be nutritionally deficient (totally unnecessary in hindsight, but it was new territory).

Armed with all that - I was measuring blood glucose constantly, and I was weighing myself daily with a scales that showed body composition - the other thing I was concerned about was losing muscle mass (again, not a problem, but I didn't know that).

And - after a month, I went in to my GP - and had a totally positive appointment. I had written down (pro tip) all the things I wanted to cover, and she agreed that as things stood; there was simply no need for the meds, so it was OK to continue not taking them. She literally had to take my elbow and move me toward the door to end the appointment.

I feel that it's hugely important to do what you can to get your GP on side, but be clear in your own head what works for you... and be honest with everyone about what you are doing and why - and do it.

Every doctor I've ever met only wants good things - but they have precious little time, and huge pressure to follow guidelines - you almost have to make it as easy for them to support you as possible, but you need to be clear in your own mind that this is about you and your health. You are not a statistic to yourself- you can know for sure that you are being honest with yourself, and the more you think that it's about helping the next diagnosed patient (maybe the doctor will be more likely to support the next patient from their experience with you...) the less you need to be worried.

Hope that helps - but again, this needs to be something that you make your own mind up on - and after all, that's the only way that you can persuade anyone else that it's the right thing.