50g Carbs

[bulkbiker]

If you want to lose weight you will need to reduce the total kJ intake. Reducing carbs and then making up the difference with fats and proteins will keep weight about the same. You have two targets so you need two arrows.
Lower BG -> reduce carbs
Lower weight -> reduce kJ
You need to do both.
Have fun.

I'll respectfully disagree that it is that simple.. The type of food is probably more important than the simple measure of calories.
To access fat stores (and therefore burn them to lose weight) you need to adjust to fat burning. So its not just carb reduction to lower BG its also carb reduction to reduce insulin triggering thus allowing access to stored fat which can then be used for energy leading to weight loss. That's why fasting is such a strong tool for weight loss as well as BG reduction. Satiety triggers may possibly mean that less calories are consumed I will admit but the type of food is more important.

 

[Crocodile]

@bulkbiker
That's fine. I don't mind that you disagree as you are entitled to. As it happens I don't agree with you. The picture you paint only alters the time frame and not the end result. Simple fact is that the body's energy needs must come from somewhere. As far as I know, the laws of physics have not changed since the apple fell on Mr Newton's head.

 

[bulkbiker]

@bulkbiker
That's fine. I don't mind that you disagree as you are entitled to. As it happens I don't agree with you. The picture you paint only alters the time frame and not the end result. Simple fact is that the body's energy needs must come from somewhere. As far as I know, the laws of physics have not changed since the apple fell on Mr Newton's head.

If your body is a bomb calorimeter then fine.. mine has some more subtleties and hormones as well as a variable basal metabolic rate.

 

[Crocodile]

Variable basal metabolic rate. I have one of those too. Fortunately it never gets to zero.

 

[bulkbiker]

Variable basal metabolic rate. I have one of those too. Fortunately it never gets to zero.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2686146
You may find that enlightening.. or not..

 

[zand]

If you want to lose weight you will need to reduce the total kJ intake. Reducing carbs and then making up the difference with fats and proteins will keep weight about the same. You have two targets so you need two arrows.
Lower BG -> reduce carbs
Lower weight -> reduce kJ
You need to do both.
Have fun.

I disagree about having less kjs. I did an experiment to check this. Where the kjs come from is far more important for people with insulin resistance than the total kjs consumed.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

 

[Crocodile]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2686146
You may find that enlightening.. or not..

Not particularly. We're looking at weight loss, not obesity. The line from the article: "Intentionally increasing calorie consumption will result in weight gain, as dictated by the First Law of Thermodynamics." is rather pertinent. Naturally, by the same law of physics, reduction in energy input must result in weight loss. Metabolic factors may alter the rate of loss by substantial margins but holds true. The energy required to keep ones heart beating, think and maintain 37 deg body temperature must come from somewhere.

 

[Crocodile]

I disagree about having less kjs. I did an experiment to check this. Where the kjs come from is far more important for people with insulin resistance than the total kjs consumed.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

Nobody disagreed with that. It is still true though that reducing kJ intake below the body's requirements will result in weight loss. The rate of loss may change but energy cannot be manufactured from nothing.

 

[zand]

Nobody disagreed with that. It is still true though that reducing kJ intake below the body's requirements will result in weight loss. The rate of loss may change but energy cannot be manufactured from nothing.

but I increased mine by over 1000 cals a day and lost more weight....

 

[xfieldok]

No idea about any of this. I don't count calories only carbs. Weight Is dropping gradually, not sure what I will do when I reach my target because I am rarely hungry.

 

[Crocodile]

but I increased mine by over 1000 cals a day and lost more weight....

That doesn't mean weight won't come off with less kJ though. Not the same thing.

 

[Crocodile]

No idea about any of this. I don't count calories only carbs. Weight Is dropping gradually, not sure what I will do when I reach my target because I am rarely hungry.

That happened to me too. I cut my carb intake to 20g per meal instead if 110g and the weight dropped off. Naturally I wanted to know why. It wasn't until I added up all of the daily kJ I ate that I realised what was going on. I hadn't replaced the carbs one for one and was 3000 kJ under what I was consuming previously. Weight loss fully explained.

 

[zand]

That doesn't mean weight won't come off with less kJ though. Not the same thing.

but it doesn't! That's my point. If I have less kjs and they are mostly carb kjs then I put on weight. This is my personal experience. I don't care if 'science' doesn't agree with me. n=1 That's all the science I need. That's why I did the fat fast.

 

[Crocodile]

but it doesn't! That's my point. If I have less kjs and they are mostly carb kjs then I put on weight. This is my personal experience. I don't care if 'science' doesn't agree with me. n=1 That's all the science I need. That's why I did the fat fast.

You're missing the key point. It is kJ below the requirements of the body. If it is still above the body's requirements, weight loss is not guaranteed.

 

[zand]

You're missing the key point. It is kJ below the requirements of the body. If it is still above the body's requirements, weight loss is not guaranteed.

You are missing the point too. kj intake can be way below the body's requirements but can still cause weight gain and that's because my body doesn't process carbs well.

 

[Krystyna23040]

Very interesting discussion.

but it doesn't! That's my point. If I have less kjs and they are mostly carb kjs then I put on weight. This is my personal experience. I don't care if 'science' doesn't agree with me. n=1 That's all the science I need. That's why I did the fat fast.

Very interesting discussion - that is exactly what I have found. Also - not only do I put on weight if I eat more carbs - even if I eat less in total - but my blood sugars go haywire. I am determined to stay off the insulin (I originally had an HB1aC of 125 and was Immediately put on Lantus and Novarapid) and have found intermittent fasting (mostly doing 18/6) and keeping to max 20g carbs mostly from bucket loads of green vegetables and Greek yoghurt, moderate protein and healthy fats (avocado, coconut oil, organic butter and cheese, olive oil, oily fish and nuts) has really worked for me.

Gary Taubes explains why this happens in his book Why We Get Fat and so does Dr Jason Fung in The Diabetes Code.

 

[Crocodile]

You are missing the point too. kj intake can be way below the body's requirements but can still cause weight gain and that's because my body doesn't process carbs well.

Then the intake is not below the body's requirements. If you are keeping the heart beating, thinking and maintaining 37 deg body temperature you are using energy. If there is enough left to put on weight then you are not below the body's requirements.

 

[zand]

Then the intake is not below the body's requirements. If you are keeping the heart beating, thinking and maintaining 37 deg body temperature you are using energy. If there is enough left to put on weight then you are not below the body's requirements.

You are really not listening are you?! Are you an HCP? A dietician?

If I eat a mixed diet of 1200 cals I do not lose weight, I put it on. If I eat 2300 cals, mostly fat I lose weight. Therefore if 2300 cals is below my body's requirements (because I lose weight) then 1200 cals must also be below my body's requirements.

 

[Crocodile]

Very interesting discussion.

Very interesting discussion - that is exactly what I have found. Also - not only do I put on weight if I eat more carbs - even if I eat less in total - but my blood sugars go haywire. I am determined to stay off the insulin (I originally had an HB1aC of 125 and was Immediately put on Lantus and Novarapid) and have found intermittent fasting (mostly doing 18/6) and keeping to max 20g carbs mostly from bucket loads of green vegetables and Greek yoghurt, moderate protein and healthy fats (avocado, coconut oil, organic butter and cheese, olive oil, oily fish and nuts) has really worked for me.

Gary Taubes explains why this happens in his book Why We Get Fat and so does Dr Jason Fung in The Diabetes Code.

That too is not quite what I'm attempting to explain. Badly it seems. In a nutshell, if you want to lose weight then energy input needs to be less than energy required. There is a fixed amount of available energy in what you stick in your belly. Once it is used there is no more. You either eat more food or you tap into your bodily reserves. There are no other sources. I don't know why I'm having trouble explaining a fairly basic physical law. Maybe I need lessons.

 

[zand]

Maybe I need lessons.

Nope - you need empathy and understanding for others whose bodies don't work like yours.