8 Weeks or 15% ?

bulkbiker

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However how do you calculate that threshold ? I am some 25 KG lighter now than I was when I was diagnosed but I still have diabetes. There must be more to this than just an 8 week time frame or 15% weight loss.
As I said above it will vary with everyone who undertakes the regime. 15% is just Prof Taylor's guess and has (so far as I now) no scientific proof. The whole body of science here is cutting edge which is why the next study is currently underway. Until this is published (and probably even after that) there won't be any certainty that it will work the same way for everyone or even that it will work for everyone. The main thing seems to be loosing visceral fat. The only sure way to see if that is happening is to have a dexa scan (best before you start) good luck with getting that on the NHS!
 

DCUKMod

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I reversed my Type 2
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I guess I should have wrote a longer opening post to include that I have read all of the NC diet studies and know about the fat threshold claim. However how do you calculate that threshold ? I am some 25 KG lighter now than I was when I was diagnosed but I still have diabetes. There must be more to this than just an 8 week time frame or 15% weight loss.

I read the link above some time ago and I believe it has a classification all of its own.

As I understand it, nobody can calculate the personal fat threshold, and of course that is Professor Taylor's working theory. By the end of this current 5-year study he may have a clearer or even different idea about it.

Unfortunately, the ND doesn't work for everyone, in terms of reversing (or whatever) their diabetes. This has been known since the very first of his studies, with less than a dozen subjects. Not all of those reversed.

One constant in the management of T2 diabetes seems to be the desire that T2s stay trim. In a discussion a few months ago with an Endo, about something other than diabetes, I explained that I had been experimenting with my food intake; experimenting with swapping my main meal from evening to lunchtime, and a few other things. His only comment was, "Don't put weight on."

On a more general note, I call T2 a portfolio condition; meaning that it covers a wide range of symptoms, and is pretty much a catch-all for anything that isn't in the T1 portfolio (T1, T1.5, LADA and) or Gestational, so it feels reasonable to consider that one size won't fit all for improvements when the true cause of the individual's T2 may differ from the next man.

I have said many times that I was lucky that my T2 was diagnosed when it was, because my body was still healthy enough to recover itself, very quickly, into the great place I'm in today. Sadly, not everybody achieves that and/or for some people it takes a lot longer to achieve. It's such a frustratingly individual thing.

I do hope you achieve what you hope for with your diabetes.
 

ringi

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3,365
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Its a diet losing fat is the aim, I am not having liposuction I am dieting !!! How do I target the correct sort of fat ?

You can't target the correct type of fat, but resistance training will help to build up your muscle mass so that all the lost weight is in fat.
 

Chook

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I don't think you can calculate the threshold - I think you have to personally experience it.

I once found my personal fat threshold - it meant that for a luxurious few weeks/months I was able to eat pretty much what I wanted - which, of course, lead to weight gain and, because I was going through a bad work/health time in my life I slid in to a period of diabetes denial. I didn't act to lose the new lard immediately and went back above my PFT plus some extra. Yes, I am aware I was really stupid!!

Nowadays I've left the denial phase behind but I am now almost 2st over my PFT and am doing my best to get back down there (assuming it hasn't changed) but I'm finding it harder than any time in my life to lose weight - my body somehow keeps adjusting to any fasting, calorie or carb restriction. :banghead:
 
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ringi

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One constant in the management of T2 diabetes seems to be the desire that T2s stay trim.

Professor Taylor's found that some of the people who reversed their Type2 were still clinically abused after doing his diet.
 

Mbaker

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Available fast foods in Supermarkets
Understood but 33% would take me down into the high 50s in KGs that would in my opinion be too much.

Dammit I just bought some digital scales, had no idea you could buy scales that measure internal fat.
If you can also get the scales recommended by @Bluetit1802 the additional readings the Tanita units provide are really good, I can vouch for the cheaper version http://www.argos.co.uk/product/3595653 as I got similar numbers for https://tanita.eu/products/segmental-body-composition-monitors/bc-545n
 
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DCUKMod

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Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
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Professor Taylor's found that some of the people who reversed their Type2 were still clinically abused after doing his diet.

Yes, I'm quite aware of those who remained obese (assuming the finger trouble wrote abused?). Looking back though, none of us know when we crossed the line to whatever you want to call that state (remission/cure/reversal). I know that what I had my first non-diabetic range HbA1c of 37 I hadn't finished trimming up. I'm not actually sure what I weighed then, because I didn't weigh myself for the first 4 months, post diagnosis, for a number of reasons. My weight was certainly in an OK place by then, but I'm quite skinny now, having had a bit of a challenge balancing my weight.

Not gaining weight, personally, would be expensive, having moved into smaller clothes, and to be fair, I feel absolutely fine as I am. However, I'm sure we'd all agree that we see statements surrounding all manner of health conditions, from BP to orthopaedic health to cardiac health to cancer suggesting that staying trim sets us up well for the future.

Bottom line is, all of this science and learning is still pretty new, and will develop and devolve as the years pass, no doubt; especially as more and more longer term studies are being carried out into reversal and prevention.

Simply, each one of us has to decide where we set our rick dials and hope our minds and bodies can match up to our desire, over the long term.
 

ringi

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3,365
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A lot of people with Type2 can get into non-diabetic range HbA1c by eating low carb with enough fat that they don't lose any weight. The real test is can you eat a blueberry muffin and your BG remain in a normal range.....
 

Chook

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A lot of people with Type2 can get into non-diabetic range HbA1c by eating low carb with enough fat that they don't lose any weight. The real test is can you eat a blueberry muffin and your BG remain in a normal range.....

That will be me then - my last HbA1c was 29 / 4.9 - and the one before that was similar - but I consider my diabetes to be well controlled rather than like it was before when I was below my Personal Fat Threshold. I know that (as I am now) if I ate a blueberry muffin my BG would go soaring whereas when I was under my PFT it have barely moved.
 
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AlexMagd

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184
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I find the idea of a Personal Fat Threshold v interesting. My weight has bounced around the 16-18 stone mark for years, clearly unhealthy but not diabetic. I had a full medical in 2011 which showed fatty liver but no diabetes (after which I lost a bunch of weight). Now my weight has crept up and passed the point at which I had issues but no diabetes -it makes me wonder whether for me then the PFT would sit somewhere just above 18 stone.

However to lose 15% I'd have to drop 4 stone in total - which would put me way under the point previously where I was diabetes free but still obese.
 

ringi

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Messages
3,365
Type of diabetes
Type 2
A little "fatty liver" is the first step of becomming diabatic, but often it does not show up on the blood tests until it gets very bad.

If we remove the fat from our liver (easy with LowCarbHighFat) then we can get good control of Type2 provided we advoid most carbs, but to reverse Type2 we need to also remove the fat from the panicus that is a lot harder to do.

Therefore we may have two "Personal Fat Threshold" a high one that if we never go over we will not get Type2, and a lower one we need to get below to reverse Type2. But noone knows how to work out someone's Personal Fat Threshold. What is claer is that BMI does not tell us much on a personal level, but our waist measurement seems to be good predictor of outcomes.