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9.4 after fasting 24 hours?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Resurgam, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I am usually under 7 mmol/l these days even after meals, but I have put on another pound - 3 altogether, so I thought I'd try fasting, as it seems to work for some people.
    I checked after eating lunchtime yesterday, and then fasted 24 hours. First reading 6.8, after 24 hours, 9.4.
    What?!!
    Then I ate a salad, standard green salad with ham and coleslaw, and two hours later 6.8.
    I am down a pound in weight, but I don't want to go so high.

    Perhaps I need to eat the same amount but as three meals not two - which I might try - but I am really puzzled by the increased number.
     
  2. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's probably your liver helping out with a dump or series of dumps because there wasn't any food coming in.

    I just checked in my food/BG diary and I had a similar effect on my first ever fast with most of the rise being in the last two hours but not so high as yours. You might find you have good fasting BG tomorrow.

    You have my sympathy about gaining weight while sticking to low carb because it's happening to me too.
     
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  3. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Gaining weight probably means that I am becoming less resistant to insulin, so usually I see low numbers - but because carbs are being stored away.
    I will just keep on making small adjustments, I think - obviously there are things going on, which hopefully will all be to the good, in the long run, just a nuisance when I am so wanting to lose weight.
    So many times I seem to find that what actually happens is the opposite of accepted thinking.
     
  4. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I completely agree with you. I managed to gain 2 pounds in one week eating the Diet Doctor very low carb introduction menu. I understand now that without carbs in the diet the body will make glucose out of protein. I still have a VLC diet but have cut back a bit in protein. I

    I think accepted thinking isn't necessarily correct for everyone. I gain weight on VLC and have hypos while being just on metformin. Both things that we are told can't happen.
     
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  5. daisyduck

    daisyduck Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It happens to me when I fast too. I can start the day on a 7 slowly reduce to mid 5's and then in the evening it starts to climb again . back to the high 6's and sometimes 7's. That's just on water, bovril and coffee with cream.
    I seem to stuck at the same weight and would really like to shift a bit more. .. but still happy to be able to maintain which is something I never could do on low calorie diets
     
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  6. Jamesuk9

    Jamesuk9 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Jason Fung explains this well. Your liver is dumping glucose frantically in the absence of food. As you extend the fast or fast more often there will be less in storage to dump thus the impact becomes less significant.

    It is neither good or bad, it just means you have more work to do.

    Fasting used to scare me into eating as the same always happened to me. Over time it reduced significantly to the point that I can now go as low as 3.9 on a 24 hour fast.

    Stick with it, it will get better.
     
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  7. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Did the doctors find out why you were having hypos and how low did you record one, did you have the hypoglycaemic symptoms?
    Just being nosey!

    If after finding your blood glucose levels have risen because of the increased liver dump called Glucogenesis, during a fast, you should be able to lower your levels by doing some gentle exercise like walking or chores!

    Your body after a few fasts will adjust to fasting and unless there is a reason why you shouldn't fast!
    Fasting gives you a much needed break mentally from the humdrum of eating!
     
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  8. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    I don't do much serious fasting, but I did notice that my glucose levels would initially go up, and I've always assumed that this has been my liver dumping. But I consider it's a good sign as you're disposing of surplus carbs and once your reserves are depleted your levels should then come down.

    And - eating LCHF, on low enough carbs for long enough your body should re-learn how to burn fats in addition to carbs (which it doesn't do on a high carb diet), and since you can (a) store much more fat than you can carbs, and (b) your body can then run in "dual fuel" mode and switch fuels as required you're eventually likely to see less in the way of raised glucose levels from helpful livers, as you've got reserves of dietary and stored fats to keep you fueled instead.

    Robbity
     
  9. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    As others have said above, fasting numbers only rise like that when there are glycogen stores (in liver and large muscles) to raid. Once those are depleted, then the bg settles and stays much more steady.

    For me, I need to fast 20 hours before the skippy little liver dumps stop happening. So in a 24 hour fast, my glycogen reserves seem to last approx 20 hours. Although I imagine that would change a lot if I was more active (I usually do 24 hour fasts on work days, where I am pinned to the desk nearly all day, with a single dog walk about lunchtime).

    I have read of other people who have large enough glycogen stores to get liver dumps for days, while fasting, so I think it is a highly personal thing. Hopefully, as with many things, the body can re-learn its habits, and will over time reduce its habit of storing large quantities of glycogen.

    Interestingly, I have been recently eating the DietDoctor keto plan, with carbs well under 20 g a day. After 2 days on this, my glycogen reserves are gone, and my blood glucose stays as steady as a rock - no liver dumps at all. I am definitely preferring this, since I get to eat 2-3 times a day, rather than once a day on the fasting regime. DietDoctor also gives me a better outcome on the blood glucose levels, and a knock on effect on the insulin resistance.
     
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    #9 Brunneria, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:39 AM
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  10. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I was having hypos because I wasn't eating enough (less than 1000 cals a day) and exercising like a woman possessed.

    I was taking Metformin and eating what I thought was a healthy mainly vegetarian diet with a big fruit salad for breakfast and massive fruit smoothie for lunch and stir fried veg with pulses and wholemeal pasta or brown rice for dinner. I have only had two hypos since having my meter - lowest was 3.2 - and none at all since low carbing despite sometimes having very low BG.

    I think it was the extreme highs (caused by 8-10 portions of fruit in a smoothie) followed by two hours of gym work then an hour swimming and a very long dog walk that brought caused me to hypo.

    At the time I blamed the exercise - after all that diet was so healthy it couldn't be the cause, could it? - and my Dr said I was over doing it - so I stopped all the exercise except for the dog walking but carried on with the 'healthy' diet and gained a couple of stones and my BG just carried on going up and up.

    I was prescribed insulin when my meter wouldn't give a reading and just kept in saying Hi. The DN's meter (two hours after breakfast) have a reading of 32.7.
     
  11. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I'm glad you have got yourself sorted.
    The strenuous exercise and concentrated fructose would certainly cause my bloods to rocket!

    I'm only guessing that what happened was your high glucose levels, caused high insulin levels then insulin resistance and you had both to cause really high levels.
    That is what happened to me!

    I too thought I was on a healthy diet, apparently not healthy for me!

    Just shows how individualistic metabolic conditions are!
     
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  12. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I eventually managed to wean myself off of insulin (very long process) and now eat a very low carb diet. I always ate LOTS of fruit even before being diagnosed and I do wonder sometimes if it was the huge quantity of fruit (especially the tropical fruits) that really mucked up my metabolism. Nowadays I am very intolerant of fruit but I can occasionally cope with 50 of raspberries as a dessert to a protein/fat meal. I now eat completely the opposite to my old diet - protein, few carbs, plenty of fats. I do miss the smoothies for lunch though. :(
     
  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Yes, I miss my lovely green smoothies too. :(
     
  14. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Today I found that two of the three pounds which had crept back have vanished away, but forgot to do a BG test before I ate at 4 pm. I have only eaten some meat, so will see what tomorrow brings.
    Previously I have seen my lowest numbers ever in mid afternoons when not eating that day - but as time goes by things are changing, and I am trying different things to see how they affect me.
     
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