I find it fascinating that if someone is told they have an allergy to a foodstuff (eg nuts, coeliac) which if they continue to eat it will make them very ill or even kill them they are most unlikely to continue. However with Diabetes which could be alleviated by eating low carb the same is just not true. Not judging just observing.
It does seem to be the case that a lot of HCPs are of that mind. However we do all have to take responsibility for our own health too as grown ups. My parents followed every word the doctor uttered but we are not that generation. Apart from the doctor’s surgery there is a lot out there about LC approach (newspapers, tv, on line) but for some reason some people dont want to know.But the majority of the medical establishment won’t acknowledge there is a problem with carbs. In fact quite the opposite. My DN can’t understand that I just can’t eat carbs without consequences. I only have this knowledge as I (mostly) self fund testing. They are adamant that carbs are vital yet amazed at my success of “remission” (their words) in three months. I give up with them and just smile sweetly.
because they don't see a practical way out.
In the same way, there will be plenty of people who are over weight or obese who are controlling their blood sugars well with diet and/or medication. They are reducing the increased risks of diabetic complications but are still at risk of complications that are known to be associated with carrying too much weight.
It not always an easy thing to fix or get hold of, even though you know its not good for you.
Some never will. Some would if their drs were the ones telling them! And some will go seek it out.but for some reason some people dont want to know.
My friend has been attending the new weekly 2 hours sessions (forget what’s it’s called - Carbs R Us springs to mind) for newly diagnosed pre and T2 diabetics and they are still pushing the eatwell plate. Despite me suggesting that she reduce her carbs she still eats the ‘healthy’ whole meal bread, rice and pasta, jacket potatoes and low fat fruit yoghurts etc as directed by her course tutor. She did say though that neither she or her fellow students have lost any weight despite being on the ‘diet’ for 6 weeks! I wonder why!!
I refused a Desmond course as I was also told it was aimed at the ‘dumbest’ person in the room on the day. I also was at in front of a diabetic nurse who was at least a size 22 (UK) and a dietitian who looked like she hadn’t eaten a square meal in her life. I have always been a carb and protein watcher due to the gym work and I halved my initial HBA1C in the first three months. I just watch my intake and don’t go silly with the sugar. By all means rant it shows others that your not being taken for a fool. My last nurse appointment ended with the advice of your bloods are great stop taking a reading so often and don’t take your testing gear on holiday with you. I nearly swore at the nurse and her ‘advice’ and she put me on statins as my cholesterol went up up by 0.01. I haven’t used them and I ignored her advice completely. My next blood test next week will be very interesting as far as discussion is concernedYour experience is only too common. I asked in here about DESMOND before I decided whether to book it.
After the comments I received I decided that:-
At best it would be a waste of my time (though I would be labelled as non-compliant at my GP Surgery).
At worst I would be biting my tongue all day, or involved in arguments with the 'educator'.
As a newly diagnosed person and just to add a balance to the scales a tiny bit. I also have a family member who is a dietitian who works for the NHS.
I attended a desmond course within a few weeks, i found it very informative. Mainly from the position of validating much of what I had read (understand your enemy and all that). Most people in the room were frankly entirely ignorant of what Diabetes was and how food affected you. They left with a better understanding and some ideas on small changes they can make, for some people the idea of a total life style change just leads to burying heads in the sand, especially as if the mix of people in the room was anything to go by, this was just another pin in a long line of ailments.
The activities on food I agree were not great, but they were based on the current, scientifically accepted facts. For an average person with a high blood sugar, cutting down on refined carbs helps allot. I know there are people who are not helped by this, however for the average “drifting into diabetes” it helps.
Fundamentally I don’t agree with the idea that they are giving people bad information on purpose, the whole point of funding education courses is to limit the cost to the NHS in the future for complications and drugs that may otherwise have been avoided.
The reason I mention my family connection, is that I spoke with her about the subject and she did mention both “Newcastle diet” studies (the 500 cal pancreas kick treatment), LCHF, LCMF and some other things. She stressed in some detail the basis for each, but also stressed the unknown risks from her professional standpoint.
The clear reason these cannot be taught is that there is not enough long-term scientific evidence for them to be taught, there is scientific evidence to state that controlling refined carbs reduces the chance of complications. There is clearly evidence that a LCHF controls diabetes very well, that goes without question. However there needs to be 30 or 40 years’ worth of end of life understanding to ensure its not significantly increasing the risk of cancer, or strokes or something else. Im not suggesting there is a chance, im not a medical researcher, but you can imagine what would happen if the NHS were teaching people to eat in a way that ultimately killed them quicker then the diabetes would have.
We must in our annoyance about this course understand the very difficult position the NHS and its staff are in when developing long term strategy’s for care.
*Edit - I think if you had a course that put blame on people is terrible, mine was not like that. However we did draw a clear line between loosing weight and reducing the risk of Type 2 - This is a fact for the vast majority of type 2. Not a blame game but there is a definitive link between the two things and to avoid it in the DESMOND course would be appalling. On mine it was channeled into motivation about making the small changes we all discussed.
I do understand the point that you make and it is one of the reasons I have gone with a moderately low carb diet. However there are some of us that need to go lower and it is those that have little choice but to go keto or even carnivore and where long term side effects of doing so are countered by nearer term deterioration to blood sugar related symptoms from not doing so.
I walked out of my DESMOND day after pronouncing in a very loud voice they were teaching bovine stuff and were a danger to the people attending. I guess most there sadly just got worse over the years.Apologies for posting a rant, but I just need to get it off my chest.
DESMOND - grrrrrrrrr
Went to a full day DESMOND course last week, which was all about getting us onto a traditional weight loss diet, with hardly any mention of lowering carbohydrate intake at all, apart from one exercise asking us to guess 'How many sugar lumps are in these foods?' There were numerous exercises using plastic food items aimed at us learning what was 'healthy'. We were repeatedly told 'We never say 'no' to anything, but all the usual advice to cut fats in order to cut calories was built into the course.
I left feeling very disheartened, and it was very hard to refocus on low carb eating, despite having had such a good result from my first couple of months. (HB1ac down by 5 and 3 kg weight loss).
I won't even attempt to describe the 1:1 session I had with a health adviser the very next day (by complete coincidence) as part of the 'Healthy Living' course. Same message - 'You have made yourself ill' and 'You must lose weight by eating what we tell you'.
The emotional effects of a diabetes diagnosis were mentioned both times, but apart from a few sessions of counselling through IAPTS, there is no emotional support on offer.
I've got nearly 40 years of traditional dieting behind me, the overall result being that I've almost doubled my starting weight. I feel so discouraged that this is all that's on offer, and completely insulted by being given plastic food to play with as if I was at primary school!
Then, there are those like me, have no choice whatsoever!Don’t forget also that some choose keto or full-carnivore because they prefer it. Grain-free eating can bring about benefits reaching far beyond just better glucose stability. Plant-free is also beneficial to some (I know it is for me). Not everyone eating such diets is necessarily doing so out of an absolute requirement to keep their blood glucose within range. There are lots of people choosing the zero-carb lifestyle who have never even been diabetic.
keto or even carnivore and where long term side effects of doing so....
I should have added the word “potential”. But I was referring to the grey area or the unknown that was being alluded to in the posting of Snoopy’s.I’d be interested to know what you think these are, and based on which evidence.
It does seem to be the case that a lot of HCPs are of that mind. However we do all have to take responsibility for our own health too as grown ups. My parents followed every word the doctor uttered but we are not that generation. Apart from the doctor’s surgery there is a lot out there about LC approach (newspapers, tv, on line) but for some reason some people dont want to know.
I have recently become weary of hearing reports such as yours. DESMOND advocates need to tell their 'teachers' that, actually, they are not seeing any stalls in the progression of complications and drug prescriptions are still rising.
Someone needs to ask these advocates just how many patients they have put into remission, how many have lowered their dosages of drugs/insulin and how many of their patients develope complications within, let's say, five years after doing the course.
And I would dearly like to know how many DESMOND courses are run by the private sector on behalf of the NHS.
and a truely professional educator would be able to do this on a course. These courses are run by amateur/ incompetent educators which is part of the problemand this is what a course should be doing. Giving them a practical way out.
of course there are exceptions but a lot of t2 people who get blood sugar under control with diet will often get weight under improved control too as a by product.
Agreed. Definitely not easy all the time or for everyone, despite knowing what should be done
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?