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A question for the Keto brigade... I guess...

Sarbak

Well-Known Member
Messages
83
Location
Bristol
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
All of the other things
Apologies for the long winded intro/background before my question!

So, I've been on a healthy eating plan since May, when I was diagnosed with T2. Initially, I just cut out all starchy carbs and just ate sensibly with a focus on low GI. Out of interest about a month ago, I downloaded a calorie counter app to see what my calorie intake was and I logged every single thing into the app for one day - I was really surprised to see it was only just over 800 calories and I had thought I was consuming somewhere between 1200 and 1500 - some days I probably was, but not that day!

Ever since that day, I've been counting calories and macros, although not on the app, which I hated, but on a nerdy spreadsheet that I created myself. I found I had to increase my portion sizes pretty significantly to ensure I was eating a sensible amount of calories - most days around 1400 (at just over 18 stone). However, with those increased portion sizes has come an increase of carbs, albeit low GI food. For example, so far today I've eaten 250g low fat cottage cheese and 110g of strawberries and my carbs are already at 12.9g (not a problem for me, given my goal is to be under 100g per day). The fat free cottage cheese has around 2.5 times the amount of carbs, so I steer clear of that!

Soooo, finally, I get to my question. How on God's green earth does anyone manage to consume less than 20g of carbs in a day but still eat a reasonable amount of calories? I genuinely don't understand what foods you guys are eating that will keep your total daily intake so low. If I have an egg salad for lunch (9.2g carbs) and a chicken breast and a head of broccoli for my dinner tonight (11.2g carbs), that brings my total for the day to 33.3 without even considering snacks or tea/coffee - and that would be an incredibly low carb day for me... which, to the layperson, contained zero carbs at all! People are always so shocked when I explain that almost every food they eat contains carbs, even salad and veg and 'proteins' lol

To be clear, I'm not looking for advice on how to get into Ketosis and I don't plan to follow a Keto diet - I guess I'm just genuinely intrigued about what kind of meals you guys are putting together that result in a <20g carb total in a day.

Thanks
 
Sarbak said:
How on God's green earth does anyone manage to consume less than 20g of carbs in a day but still eat a reasonable amount of calories
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Meat in fairly reasonable quantities. With the fat that comes with it. I also eat once or twice a day.

Fat is what provides satiety and "calories" although building an eating plan around calories might not be a great idea.

Why don't you fancy keto?
 
Ummmm
200 ml cream (coffee and pud) 3-4 g
Half a punnet of raspberries or some strawberries - maybe 3-4g
Chicken breast or other meat 0g
Load of assorted veg or salad - courgette, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, cucumber, peppers, chillis, onions, tomatoes, spicy salad greens - l dunno, maybe 6g? (Not all at once, but I do try to eat a variety every day)
If having lunch - lots of salami 0g, 6-7 baby tomatoes 3g, lots of cheese (lancs, Wensleydale etc) 0g
May have keto scones at the weekend - they probably bump it up but that’s not every day and there is generally some carby wiggle room in my diet.

sooo - that’s around 17g carbs in a day? I don’t personally count carbs, I just try to avoid any foods which have more than 5g/100g. I reckon I am in ketosis most of the time, but not always. I don’t stress about it, my body seems to be able to switch in and out pretty easily now, after 9 months.
 
I put butter on my vegetables ,full fat yoghurt and double cream for dessert ,cream in my soup and nuts for a snack ,besides lots of cheese .
Carol
 
Riiiight - ok, so I understood that Keto is higher fat, which of course would increase calories, but looking at @JenniferM55 random day breakdown, it's way higher than I realised. My fat intake is under a third of that lol. I am aiming to be within the recommended 20% to 35% of calorie intake as fats, so somewhere roughly between 30 and 60g per day. The idea of eating so much fat doesn't sit well with me....

@bulkbiker I don't fancy Keto primarily because I'm looking for a sustainable lifelong healthy eating plan, which (for me, at least), does not include the long term counting of calories or macros or peeing on a stick. I want to be able to freely eat a balanced diet of 'normal' food but in better controlled portions that hopefully mean my weight stays under control and my T2D doesn't come back once I get into remission. I'm sure there are people who feel that Keto IS a sustainable way of eating and know their macros so well that they don't have to monitor or calculate their intake every day, so I acknowledge that my opinion may not be aligned with theirs

I understand that I'll almost certainly need to eat a lower carb diet for the rest of my life (both for weight control and T2D control) and I've made peace with that. But otherwise, I hope to keep things as simple as possible. I'm only planning to keep counting my calories and macros for the rest of this week and then I'll go back to just intuitive healthy eating, using the knowledge of what I've learned during this tracking period.

Perhaps time will prove that I'm naive... but we'll see. I'm open to changing my plans if necessary - we'll see what the numbers are when I get my first bloods review next week
 
Personally, I don’t count carbs that are in the green leafy veggies, I wouldn’t count broccoli, I could never ever eat enough broccoli to raise my blood glucose levels or make me gain weight. So, the green leafy stuff is free.
 
Sarbak said:
I don't fancy Keto primarily because I'm looking for a sustainable lifelong healthy eating plan, which (for me, at least), does not include the long term counting of calories or macros or peeing on a stick.
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I've never peed on a stick and only monitor calories etc out of interest. Once you realise what foods are "keto friendly"there's no need to count anything.
Sarbak said:
I want to be able to freely eat a balanced diet of 'normal' food
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Which is exactly what I do. Just reduce carbs to a minimum. Carbs are not "normal food" especially when highly processed. This is where many people have a problem. We think that processed foods are "normal".
Sarbak said:
I'm sure there are people who feel that Keto IS a sustainable way of eating
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Thousands of us yes indeed. Usually with low HbA1c and sustained weight loss so I'd really heartily recommend you try it.
You have nothing to fear and your health to regain?
 
Sarbak said:
ok, but that's twice as many calories as I'm eating lol
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Caloric restriction will lose you weight for a while until you experience metabolic slowdown due to underfeeding your body. Then you have to always eat less and less to continue to lose. This is why people find sustained weight loss so hard. By being always hungry they self sabotage.
Fattier foods are both more calorific and satiating you can eat less often spiking blood sugar less often and producing insulin less often a win-win for weight loss.
 
I have never complicated things by counting calories or macros. Just kept carbs to an absolute minimum.
 
My answer is out of scope but hopefully useful, as I am more 35 - 55 grams of carbs per day on my mixed days, but must be close to 10 - 20 on meat / fish heavier days. I still have Ketones present when I measure.

 
I lost 60 pounds 4 years ago and have kept it of by not eating most fruit, grains, legumes and root vegetables
So I ate above ground Vegetables, cream, cheese, lots of meat and berries.
Not once have I calculated my micros.
Also it is impossible to keep to a way of eating if you’re hungry. Keto or LCHF keeps you full and stops the vicious cycle of spiking insulin and hunger.
Edited to add my A1C has been 40 or below
 
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I would say that my journey and path has been quite similar to what your looking for - perhaps with more stick testing as im an engineer so data is of interest. I did the same with both an app and a spreadsheet.

The app i used was myfitnesspal (partly because it linked with my Garmin watch) but mostly because i found it pretty easy to use. Once you make a recipe or a meal its easy to just click it on over and over so i made one for example side salad properly weighed out and then just add it to a meal with what ever im having it with.

I was averaging anywhere from 1000 - 1500 calories a day early on and because i based it around foods that filled me up and extra protein i found it wasn't too bad. As an alternative method, i dint count carbs - i tested meals. So i ate a meal, tested two hours 1 and 2 maybe 3 hours after - if my bloods were fine i could repeat the meal with minimal or no testing.

I did end up eating and repeating allot of meals early on, but as the weight dropped off i expanded out more.

I had three square meals a day, very little snacks my goal was always to try and stick to three meals and getting into the habbit of snacking is a slippery slope for me.

tracked it this way for a while until i was happy with various meals.




 
Yesterday I had broth, cheese, pulled pork, crackling and every g of carb came from 2 squares of Lindt 70% choc and the herbs/spices in the pork.
My guts don't accept veg any more, but I seem to thriving!
 
Thanks for the continued responses everyone. It's useful seeing examples of other people's eating habits.

Ok, so there are two challenges for me right now. Initially and most pressing is to get my T2D into remission and secondly (concurrently) to lose weight - at least 10 stone. To lose weight, I have to be in a calorific deficit - albeit perhaps not as low as I've chosen to go, but I think I've picked a relatively sensible goal of around 1400-1500 a day... I could easily have gone lower lol. I haven't been hungry for even one day in the 4 months I've been doing this and I haven't gone 'off plan' or binged once. So I have no concerns about hunger or self sabotage - I'm enjoying what I'm eating and don't feel deprived.... although I am looking forward to a couple of roast potatoes on Christmas Day!

You're absolutely right regarding the metabolic slowdown, but my understanding is the maximum amount that your metabolism will slow by is 15% (which still leaves me in a calorie deficit, based on my changing BMR as weight drops and exercise increases), so I'm not concerned about that.

I can't envision a lifelong eating plan that doesn't include eating a small amount of wholegrain bread or basmati rice some days. In my 'diet', I can have those in moderation, but I couldn't have them on a Keto diet. So, unless the numbers from my blood test next week do not show a significant positive improvement, I don't intend to change from what I'm currently doing. However, if there has been little to no change, I will absolutely be buying my own testing kit and monitoring my BS before and after every meal to find out what's causing the problem. If and ONLY if the results of that testing shows me that my body can't safely tolerate moderate amounts of these carbs, then I will reluctantly have to start coming to terms with the fact that Keto is probably the only reasonable option for me going forward.

If anyone's interested, here's what I ate yesterday, which I think is pretty decent (unless you are looking at it through Keto glasses ). By the way, someone asked me if I was calculating net carbs - I'm not and I have no idea how to work that out... I'm assuming I can easily find the answer by googling, so I'll look into that.

 
Also, kind of unrelated to the reason I started this thread, but relevant to the Keto discussion generally I - I have a acquaintance who is at least 20 stone and who has "been on the Keto diet for almost 3 years". She tried to convince me that Keto was the only way to lose weight and yet in those 3 years she's lost nothing and in fact probably gained. Well, that's not strictly true, she's lost a few pounds and then gained and then lost and then gained. She fiercely believes that it doesn't really matter how many carbs you consume - the most important thing is to ensure your fat intake is more than your carbs. So instead of avoiding meals that contain rice, pasta, bread or potatoes etc, she eats those and then makes herself add loads of fat to the meal, with olive oil or mayo or by eating a load of peanuts etc. I mean, COME ON!!!!!! V frustrating.
 
bulkbiker said:
If you are in the UK then all carb counts are net carbs so don't worry about that.
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Oh, well that's perfect... another reason to be glad I'm in the UK! Thanks
 
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