A sandwich made me go very high...

Swiggy said:

I have noticed that I feel very full so I think that cutting back on the dairy may make losing weight a bit easier. I reduced my hba1c from 119 to 54 after diagnosis after following the ND and it hasn't gone back up again. I saw the practice nurse recently and she suggested I take metformin as it makes it easier to lose weight but I would rather try to do it without medication. Wish me luck @douglas99, today is a new day and I am full of enthusiasm.

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Good luck.

(Re the metformin, it's just another tool, it's well worth a try without, but there's nothing to stop you starting it, seeing how you get on with it, then agreeing with the nurse to come off it when you feel you no longer need to take it)

Its perfectly possible to put weight on whilst eating a low carb diet ( I do it on and off lots ! ) , it also possible to do it whilst still being in ketosis ( I do that too ! )

If your metabolism is shot after years of low fat dieting , then the chances are that going LCHF alone will not create weight loss. What creates weight loss is that LCHF should cause you to stop binging on foods when not hungry and thus overall eating a much reduced calorie intake whilst at the same time keeping your metabolism working to burn off the fat.

One thing that one needs to appreciate is that overeating as a result of years of a deprivation cycle of low fat, causes the neural network in your brain linking you to eating to be quite strong.

( strong neural pathways for behaviour is why you can drive a car to a familiar destination without noticing, or why a woman subject to domestic abuse may choose a second partner who is also violent to her friends utter mystification)

I have found that its perfectly possible to still want to overeat -for example going into the kitchen and leaving it without eating something is very very hard for me to do, hungry or not, or deciding to eat something then eating more of it than necessary.

Because frankly that's what I've been doing for years and simply knowing I'm not hungry does not change the neural pathway in my brain that says " overeat" because that is what I do. The result of this is that I've been yo-yoing round the same 2 kilos for three months now. That probably won't change until I do manage to find a way to divert that neural pathway somewhere else.

The difference between the low fat way of life and this one, for me seems to be that I can actually react to the 2 kilos weight gain by cutting down again because the ketosis does mean that I am not feeling the actual hunger pangs, but the psychological behaviour remains. I am hoping that each time I win that particular battle I will gradually find it easier to do. I can see that that is the difference between my friend ( who lost all his excess weight easily ) and me. He can quite simply ignore food on the table if not hungry, I can't.

My guess would be that this " over eating " behaviour is still with you - and that is why you have started to eat slices of butter having been told butter is good, rather than simply eating normal portions enough to stop hunger.

good luck with the battle!

There are days when I have no option but to eat a sandwich for lunch - I have tested and now know which option is the best for me for when I have to have a sandwich - like others eating carbs of all kinds makes me want me and will take weeks for me to get over that craving for carbs - so if you can and I am not able to reduce it to low and stay there the numbers will fall, I do lose weight on low carb high fat but it is a very slow process often staying the same for weeks on end and then suddenly losing a very small amount. I am taking it one day at a time and doing the best I can and trying to up my exercise with the hope it will help me to keep the weight loss going.
I wish you success and don't feel it is not working just keep trying and tweak things until they work, my latest try is the fasting side of this, I eat in order to take the medication but I am starting to stretch out my fasting time to see if this all helps in the long run.

For me a sandwich is just not an option if made with ordinary bread. I can eat a lidl protein roll but not every day.
Anything made with wheat, rice, oats - any grain at all, is going to give me high readings, potatoes - sky high readings, and for a long time.
I want to have my pancreas 'sleeping' - I want it to be able to do a little work in the future, but calmly, and be recognised for it, but there is a lot going on, as I am not yet 6 months from diagnosis.
For the time being I do not eat starchy or very sweet things, because I cannot make use of them as foods so they could do damage to me

I have a sandwich for lunch about twice a week made from Tesco's protein bread which is 10 carbs per slice.

No2D said:

Milk, especially skim and low fat, contain high levels of sugar.

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No it doesn't

There's way too much drivel like this posted on these forums. No help to anyone.

I wouldn't waste time worrying about the difference between Skimmed or Whole Milk.

There's far more important stuff to think about.

Swiggy said:

That's what I have been trying to do too @Resurgam I did the ND, lost over two stones and then had Brussels sprouts and salmon for dinner every night for about six months. I cut out all bread, rice etc in January when I joined the forum. I suppose I thought I would get speedy results but it hasn't happened yet. Patience is a virtue I need to develop.

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There are some strange results in this thread so perhaps my recent change to HFLC eating might give another slant to things. 1st March I started the change with my meds of 100mg sitagliptin and 40 mg gliclazide on a morning and another gliclazide at tea time. Weight was 20 stone 5 lb and bg in the 10 -14 range with hba1c of 60. I cut out all potato, bread, pasta, rice, cakes and biscuits. After almost 9 weeks my bg average is 6..6 and I have lost 16 pounds in this time. I have been T2 since 2009. I eat all types of meat, fish and have eggs every morning for breakfast. I have stir fries and a little salad with meat and cheese. I love baby bell cheeses but eat all types of cheese. Not a big fan of fruit but eat strawberries and oranges, pears and apples. Sugar free jelly and single cream. I drink tea and coffee made with milk and have mixed nuts, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans and Brazil's. I also drink lite cranberry juice. I have my blood test coming up next week and results the week after. I have oat cakes at 4g carbs per cake with cheese and butter. Love medi style veggies and boiled leek with a good dash of curry powder and butter with a good quality sausage. Lots of energy and now never feel hungry at all. I used to live to eat and now eat to live!

Bigman49 said:

There are some strange results in this thread so perhaps my recent change to HFLC eating might give another slant to things. 1st March I started the change with my meds of 100mg sitagliptin and 40 mg gliclazide on a morning and another gliclazide at tea time. Weight was 20 stone 5 lb and bg in the 10 -14 range with hba1c of 60. I cut out all potato, bread, pasta, rice, cakes and biscuits. After almost 9 weeks my bg average is 6..6 and I have lost 16 pounds in this time. I have been T2 since 2009. I eat all types of meat, fish and have eggs every morning for breakfast. I have stir fries and a little salad with meat and cheese. I love baby bell cheeses but eat all types of cheese. Not a big fan of fruit but eat strawberries and oranges, pears and apples. Sugar free jelly and single cream. I drink tea and coffee made with milk and have mixed nuts, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans and Brazil's. I also drink lite cranberry juice. I have my blood test coming up next week and results the week after. I have oat cakes at 4g carbs per cake with cheese and butter. Love medi style veggies and boiled leek with a good dash of curry powder and butter with a good quality sausage. Lots of energy and now never feel hungry at all. I used to live to eat and now eat to live!

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That is excellent, you are doing really well.

The problem is though, many of us T2s can't cope with some of the foods you mention because we don't have the aid of drugs such as Gliclazide that stimulate the pancreas to produce additional insulin like you have. Many of us rely on diet alone, and through testing we discover certain foods give us unacceptable rises, and each of us has different reactions to the same foods. It is all a mystery!

Swiggy said:

I am sure that my levels will come down eventually but I am finding it difficult to feel enthusiastic about what I am eating because my fbg remains high. I didn't realise that you can boil leeks. I plan to do a lasagna with leeks instead of pasta sheets, it's something I haven't tried before.
Well done on your weight loss.

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It must be very frustrating for you, and I am wondering if it is time you spoke with your GP about some help from medication? Not all of us can manage without.

Swiggy said:

Hi guys, as some of you know I started lchf in January and I really like what I'm eating. I cut out all bread, rice, pasta and potatoes and it goes without saying that I have avoided cake, pastries and biscuits. I have been testing before and two hours after meals and I very rarely go higher than 1milimol after two hours.
I have not lost any weight which I think is because I have been very greedy with butter and cream. I have reduced my protein to avoid it turning to glucose.
My fbg has not come down, it is still in the 8s or 9s and the lowest reading I have had was 6.9.
Today I met up with a friend who brought us a sandwich each to eat in the park. It was brown bread and was an all day breakfast one. I ate it. I refused the cup cake and drank a bottle of water. I walked three miles at quite a fast pace. When I tested after two hours I was horrified to find that I was 15.9.
Sorry for the long post but I want to get this right. I enjoy lchf and see it very much as a long term thing but I would like to see some positive results. I am limiting the coffee and cream and cutting back on the butter (I had started to eat it sliced like cheese).
Could I have gone so high because I am usually so low carb?

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I felt my body reacted worse to carbs after extreme low carbing too. Although the next morning my fbg was the best I'd seen. I think my liver didn't dump as I had too much glucose in my blood already.
Also when I exercise my bgs increase by 2-3mmol/l on top of high bg. I too never lost weight on lchf.
As soon as I stopped nuts, cheese and butter I lost 7kgs.

So my liver stored the carbs which sustains my fatty liver and if I do this by less calories but 150g carbs by eating no fatty proteins I get weight off.
I cannot win, like you.

Soooo I do liver detoxes ( very very low carb) to prevent fatty liver turning into cirrosis. Randomly.
And I low calorie with 150g carb but just good GI carbs.
And I'm due to use supplement r-ala again to support my severe insulin resistance.
Restarting zenical on 10th may too.

ALL DUE TO NOT BEING ABLE TO WALK WITHOUT PAIN otherwise I'd exercise some off with good insulin control.
I'd start exercise on 4s or 5s with a low carb bite so not hungry when exercise finished or bgs so high they cause damage.
On a regular basis.

Swiggy said:

Thanks @Bluetit1802 I thought that I had done so well bringing my hba1c down from 119 to 54 without medication and I really thought that I would continue to go down until I was in the normal range but it's not happening for me. My fasting levels are in the 7 - 9 range no matter how early I finish eating the night before. It was the practice nurse who suggested that I try metformin but I am reluctant to use medication before trying all of the alternatives first. Maybe I need to give it a bit longer and maybe increase my activity levels.

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You did brilliantly to bring your HbA1c down by that much without medication.

Have you considered trying a Libre sensor? I know they are very expensive, but with the starter pack you get 2 sensors, so that is a month's worth. They are invaluable for discovering what is happening to your levels, not just overnight, but all day between times you test. You can see what exercise does, what simple things like housework do, when your liver starts dumping, and so much more. I can't justify the price to have one full time, but I do like to use them periodically. I've used 7 sensors so far and about to use another just before and during my next holiday.

Swiggy said:

Thanks @Bluetit1802 I thought that I had done so well bringing my hba1c down from 119 to 54 without medication and I really thought that I would continue to go down until I was in the normal range but it's not happening for me. My fasting levels are in the 7 - 9 range no matter how early I finish eating the night before. It was the practice nurse who suggested that I try metformin but I am reluctant to use medication before trying all of the alternatives first. Maybe I need to give it a bit longer and maybe increase my activity levels.

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If I could exercise I would be swimming (3times a week) and cycle/walk regularly.
If you can exercise just do what you can and build up slowly.
Wish I could.