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After the Newcastle Diet Real World

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by DaveSyl, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. DaveSyl

    DaveSyl Type 2 · Member

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    Hi I have been reading this website since diagnosis in March 2015 but have never joined until today, what I am really interested in are what are the real world results of completing the Newcsatle diet as in are you able to tolerate what I would call a normal healthy diet and lifestyle?

    The reason I ask is I am sat here with 8 weeks worth of Exante shakes with the intention of starting the diet tomorrow morning, however I am now beginning to have cold feet if it is really worth it for me, to give a bit of a background I was diagnosed Type 2 in March 2015 with a Hba1c of 118, I am male my height is 6 foot exactly and weighed 15st 4lbs at diagnosis and was 34 years of age,(currently36) I was put on 80mg of Gliclazide and 1500mg of Metformin, in the past two and a half years I have gradually come of all medication stoping my last Metformin in May of this year with the support of my GP and today I weigh 11st 5lbs, ideally i could still do with losing another stone to reach my ideal weight of 10st 5lbs. As far as my diet is concerned I have achieved this with what is best described as a sort of hybrid NHS eatwell/low carbish which I wouldn’t exactly put into either category to put it frankly as well as cycling 3 - 4 times a week.

    Last week I had my first hba1c since being of all my medication and it came back as 46, my GP said he doesn’t think I am currently diabetic but I am not normal either and to have another test in January and go from there as he believes my hba1c then will be better than the 46 as my body adjust back to no medication, when I mentioned and showed him the Newcastle research an diet he was completely against it for me and wanted me to carry on doing exactly what I am currently doing, however my monitor disagrees I am still diabetic controlling it with diet and exercise, now my main problem is I work in the tourism industry and travel a lot which is currently proving to be a problem with no medication, while at home I am fine as I can low carb however travelling and just any kind of social gatherings are turning into nightmares that I am constantly dreading and feel I am turning into the king of anti social, as low carbing in these situations is a pain and not really practical.

    So what I would really like to ask here is really will the diet be worth it for me? For anyone who has been successful how are you able to eat, are you just on LCHF diet with no medication or are you what I would call truly a non diabetic, as if 8 weeks of this diet is just going to result in what I have essentially almost achieved this is why I am questioning if it will be of benefit to me, my ideal scenario out of of this would be to be non diabetic put it into remission call it whatever you personal preference is and be able to eat a healthy balanced diet which is low carbish but being able to enjoy social/family occasion holidays with out pure dread or borderline fear while continuing my cycling regime and excessive regime.

    If I have not bored anyone so far I would greatly appreciate any advice and responses very much as I feel totally lost and confused right now as to wether to begin in the morning or not.

    Thank you
     
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  2. therower

    therower Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @DaveSyl . First off as a T1 I don't do or know a great deal about the Newcastle diet.
    Your post suggests you have and are doing wonderfully.
    If you're happy with where you're at and contented with life then the only advice I can offer is.......
    If it ain't broke don't fix it.
    P.S welcome to the forum.
     
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  3. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I don't quite understand why you are feeling so much angst about social gatherings - if there is nothing I can eat or drink I ask pointed questions about the lack.
     
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  4. DaveSyl

    DaveSyl Type 2 · Member

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    Hi therower and thanks but that’s kind of my problem I don’t really know if I am happy as I’m not sure my current situation is long term sustainable, I feel like I am running a marathon and can see the finishing line but am now stuck in mud going absolutely nowhere, if I’m being honest with myself I am probably better off going back on the Metformin unless what my GP thinks will happen occurs and my body begins to adjust but I am determined not too go back on unless absolutely necessary as I have got this far to get off everything, and that the Newcastle diet could be what I need to get me over the finishing line, however if the diet is just going to leave me essentially where I am now the question I have to ask is what is the point of enduring a 8 week 800 calorie a day liquid diet to achieve essentially nothing more I hope that kind of makes sense and am just hoping that someone who has been successful with the diet could just share what the real world is after the diet.
     
  5. DaveSyl

    DaveSyl Type 2 · Member

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    Hi basically it’s because I can only tolerate certain foods, in these situations my blood will end up spiking into a range of 12-15 mmol but will always come down to what is essentially normal in the 6-7 mmol range by itself but it takes 6-8 hours to do so and these spikes are leaving me worried about developing complications which is resulting in me not wanting to do anything out of the house that involves food or drink that’s out of my control.
     
  6. therower

    therower Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    @DaveSyl . I'm sure someone with experience of the Newcastle diet will post some useful information for you.
    One observation of mine is that this is a 8 week programme, you will still have to make another decision I assume when the programme ends.
    As a T1 there is one thing I am certain of. There is no finish line, I'll never win or finish the race. Not sure if T2's view things the same. Taking my outlook you probably won't be surprised to hear I embrace my condition, I don't fight it, I don't race it.
    It's a journey that my diabetes takes with me, I choose the route, pace and we overcome obstacles together.
    Diabetes likes to influence us and manipulate are lives. If it can sow seeds of doubt and take us to dark places it will.
    Stay positive and follow your heart not your diabetes.
     
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  7. AM1874

    AM1874 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @DaveSyl
    The Newcastle diet works for many .. but only in the short term. The point is that no diet that restricts you from eating as much as you need is sustainable. That's why I argue that diets never, never work.
    LCHF (Low carb, High Fat) on the other hand, works because it's core concepts are ..
    a) you only eat real food
    b) you only eat when you're hungry
    c) you only eat until you're full
    a) it is a lifestyle not a diet

    Hope this helps
     
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  8. badcat

    badcat · Guest

    I guess if youve already invested quite a chunk of £ in the shakes and you still want to lose some weight, Id be tempted to give them a go.
    The aim of the nd diet is to lose a considerable amount of weight to defat the liver and pancreas and it sounds like youve probably achieved that so I wouldnt think you need to go the full monty of 3 shakes a day etc but what is there to lose if you use your stock of shakes to replace 1 or 2meals a day to help with remaining weight loss and / or food choices?
    If it was me I would see how you and your blood sugars react to them
     
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  9. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Why would you eat or drink unsuitable things which you know are not good for you?
    I'm sorry if that seems naive, but I ask for what I need and if there is nothing available then I either don't partake or I leave and find something elsewhere. If I suspect that there will not be suitable food then I eat before I go out.
    As you have already got the sachets of shakes perhaps you could try out the Newcastle diet to see how you cope, or to see how quickly you can lose that final stone. If you do it quickly then perhaps an interval of using up the shakes and eating more normal meals each day - normal for you, that is, so as to transition back from the low calorie more gradually.
     
  10. andcol

    andcol I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    @AM1874 if you havent done it please do not put out your view of the truth without really understanding just because you want to push low carb.

    @DaveSyl I completed a low calorie diet which I did forlonger than 8 weeks some years back and now eat completely normally. This includes sweets, biscuits and cakes when I want to and my blood sugar level stays within normal at all times. My HbA1c since has been consistently 33 so it has worked for me. The only other thing I will add is what have you got to lose in trying it? If it doesnt work then you are no worse off and if it does (even if it lasts for a few years only) then thumbs up.
     
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  11. Alison Campbell

    Alison Campbell Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Tagging another moderator for you @Pipp, I've been trying to find Pipp's Five years after ND thread for you but it won't load.
     
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  12. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    Hello @DaveSyl

    You have achieved a great weight loss already, (well done) but if I understand you correctly, you still have spikes in blood glucose after eating some foods? This suggests you need to restrict carbs, and continue testing BG regularly.

    I am not sure that my experience of Newcastle diet can be of use, as our circumstances are so different. I am a woman, old enough to be your mother, and not able to undertake strenuous exercise. Also, I chose the ND method as a last resort after other weight loss / diabetic control had failed me.

    I did not lose all of the weight I needed to, but have managed 6 years under diabetic BG levels, though the last 18 months or so have seen me getting close to that HbA1c 42. For the first 2 years or so following ND I was able to eat high carb foods with no problem, other than by eating them I craved more. That is the difficulty for me with carbs. They are addictive and cause weight gain. If you have read the Newcastle literature you will be familiar with the term 'personal fat threshold'. It is likely I am approaching mine. I don't tend to have spikes in BG, with any foods, but I have seen an average increase overall so need to be cautious. I do prefer low carb foods now though.

    Back to your question, ..... Will it work for you? Only one way to find out. You have the food replacement products. Only you can decide if it is worth 8 weeks of your life. I mentioned I am old enough to be your mum. If you were my son, I would tell you to go for it, but don't worry if you decide to call it a day before the 8 weeks are up. You already have a regime set up that is giving you some success at controlling your diabetes. That could be all you need.
    Over to you, but best of luck whatever you decide. Please keep posting to keep us update of your progress.
     
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  13. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    @DaveSyl - whilst others can tell you what they did or didn't do and how they subsequently live their lives, the only way you will know for yourself is to try it. It is my experience that 10 people can do the same thing and all achieve differing outcomes, albeit often with similarities.

    Off the top of my head, @Pipp did the ND several years ago, and @andcol did the ND-ish using real food, rather than shakes, but that was them.

    There have been numerous threads on tis in the past, so a forum search might help. Funnily enough, the in vogue diet then moved onto low cab, the 5:2, then fasting, then the Blood Sugar Diet and now coming back to ND. I think that illustrates there are many ways to skin this particular cat. Frustratingly, you have to find which is best for you.

    Why not crack on and see for yourself?

    Edit: I see Pipp and andcol are already here. :)
     
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  14. DaveSyl

    DaveSyl Type 2 · Member

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    Thank you that was exactly what I was hoping for, a full blown LCHF lifestyle really doesn’t suit me and I was worried that the end of the diet was just a getting off medication and transitioning to LCHF permanently, you have just made my mind up to go ahead with the diet as hopefully I can achieve what you have and if I don’t I can at least look myself in the mirror and say I tried my best and that’s all that anyone can do.
     
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  15. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    I really cannot agree with your opening statement, @AM1874
    The Newcastle diet calorie restriction phase is not meant to be long term. The follow on is as you describe in your 'core concepts'.

    Unfortunately, there is no single method to suit everyone. For example, although I chose to follow a mainly low carb lifestyle, I am not able to have much fat in my diet.
     
  16. DaveSyl

    DaveSyl Type 2 · Member

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    Hi

    That’s why social situations have left me in almost a state of fear since I came off my meds in May, I don’t want to eat or drink in a unsuitable things when I am at home and control what I eat my bloods are totally fine and are always in the normal range and I know what I can handle and am happy with my diet, but going out where food and drink is involved is a totally different matter and if I don’t get involved or restrict where we go or eat etc I feel for lack of a more appropriate word for this forum a bit of a prat, so it’s why I don’t want to socialise and out myself in these situations since I came off the medication.
     
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  17. chalup

    chalup Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you decide to do please continue to monitor your blood sugar even if things seem resolved. I found out the hard way that round 2 can sneak up on you if you are not paying attention.
     
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  18. Peerless67

    Peerless67 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Citations ?
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I thought that part of the ND was a permanent restriction of calorie intake for life of about 33%? I am sure I have heard Prof Taylor say this or have read it in one of the studies. This is one reason why I'm not convinced that it is a long term solution.

    However the main problem I find with the ND is that so far the actual studies Counterpoint 2011 and Counterbalance 2016 have involved about 41 people in total. Counterpoint was 11 to do proof of concept and Counterbalance was 30.
    Counterpoint only did it for 8 weeks and so far as I know the participants were never followed up. At least I have never found any reference to it.
    Counterbalance was followed up after 6 months and of the original 30 participants 13 were still "non diabetic" after this period. So a success rate of 43%.
    From the two studies a whole plethora of people have tried to replicate the success of these experiments. To make claims based on such small studies seems a bit dangerous to me. Of the people here who have also done it there are seemingly few who claim to have "reversed" their diabetes by following this route (@Pipp ,@andcol and douglas who no longer seems to be here.)
    Are any members of the original trial groups members here?
    The LCHF way of eating seems to me to me far more sustainable long term and to have achieved anecdotally a far greater rate of success. Just read the success stories on this forum, Dr Fungs website, the ketogenic forums and diet doctor to name but four.
    Even after the current Direct study which should be published in 2018 fewer than 400 people will have done the "official" Newcastle Diet so even then I would say this is far to few to draw any strong conclusions.
     
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  20. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
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    @bulkbiker
    The OP asked for specific advice and information from people who had tried the ND method.
    I have no intention of seeing this thread derailed by a debate on whether LCHF or ND is better.
    As @DCUKMod has already mentioned, there are many ways to achieve the same goal, and we each have to find a method that suits our own individual circumstances.
     
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