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Am I Reactive Hypoglycemic?

Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by BBTempleN, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Hiya, I'm new to the site after searching the internet for an answer to my almost daily migraines starting around the same time each day. It's looking like I could be Reactive Hypoglycemic. I haven't been to have any medical test, but trying to manage myself by diet and its proving a bit hit and miss. I'm trying to do low carb but can't manage high fat as it upsets my stomach following some unknown illness 8 ago. Weird spaced out and weak feelings seem to get better as I go through the day where I can stretch longer between meals. I also feel that I need to eat there and then and if I dont I go straight to a migraine that cannot be reversed no matter what I chuck at it (sugar, coffee, chocolate - sometime help sometimes dont) and there I stay all unbalanced for days until my body finally settles back down. I have recently discovered the 15:15 that seems to help which makes me think it is blood sugar related. I think if I could get the first part of the day sorted, it would be a good start. I can only go about 1.5 hours from breakfast till a snack and then only another 1 hr till a lunch break and then it get a longer stretch - 2 to 3 hours etc.

    I think I eat healthy foods and no processed junk food. I try to eat fruit now with a few nuts so not on its own.

    I had a wellness check at the docs and I was not pre diabetic or diabetic. I have had migraine since I was 14 but worse recently, possibly due to menopause starting to kick in may be affecting my hormones more, as I was always worse with migraine around period time which |i hear is when blood sugar levels can be disturbed, and I cannot get on with alcohol either and sleep seems an issue if I sleep too long as maybe then get a later breakfast. It all a mare to manage. Feel like I'm constantly keeping the wolf from the door!

    I am also considering a continuous blood glucose monitor to find out if that may help. Any ideas where it is best to start or should I go to docs for a diagnosis and if so what tests would I be likely to need?
     
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  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi and welcome!

    I will tag in @Goonergal because of her long history of migraines.

    You could try getting a blood glucose meter to help you spot if the migraines are linked to blood glucose. Here in the UK, two of the cheapest brands are the Codefree and the Tee2.

    if you are trying to keep blood glucose low and steady, then fruit is very unlikely to be your friend.

    personally, the lower carb I went, the less RH I had. Then, since I eliminated gluten, I am virtually RH free.
     
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  3. JenniferM55

    JenniferM55 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this is a stupid response; my brother in law suffered for decades with migraine headaches, nearly always the first week of his vacations were spent in bed. Until he discovered his body needed more liquids (flights can cause dehydration), he didn't appear to have a 'thirst trigger'. For the past several years he's always got a bottle of water with him and I don't think he suffers migraines now.

    Low carb diets can also cause dehydration.

    Welcome to the forum :)
     
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  4. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hi @BBTempleN

    Sorry to hear about your migraines. I know from experience just how miserable they are.

    The biggest benefit for me of being diagnosed with type 2 and making radical changes to my diet has been the ending of my chronic migraines. By adopting a ketogenic diet they have completely vanished. Not instantly but fro a point where I was treating 6-8 a month (which in itself was an improvement on a few years earlier), it is now over 3 years since I had one.

    When I first went keto they got a bit worse - probably didn’t take in enough salt - but gradually they reduced in frequency. The last one I had was about 7 months after I began keto.

    When discharging me from the hospital I’d attended for well over 20 years, the consultant did acknowledge that there is ‘anecdotal’ evidence that keto works for migraines. It’s not that surprising when you think that it’s often used treat childhood epilepsy and that many of the prophylactic drugs used for migraine are primarily used for epilepsy.

    So it would be worth you getting blood tests and getting a diagnosis but in the meantime if it interests you there’s no harm in giving keto a shot.

    I’ll also tag @JoKalsbeek @Bex72 and @Robbity who all have experience of migraines.
     
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  5. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Trying to treat a migraine with coffee or chocolate is usually not the best plan, as caffeine is a migraine trigger for the bulk of us. I can't comment on RH, as it'd require you testing before a meal and in stages afterwards, and especially when you feel horrible. (you could do that via fingerprick instead of a CGM, but that's entirely up to you) Even then, we can't diagnose, but we can have a pretty good inkling. And an extended OGGT (Oral Glucose Tolerance Test) might be an idea to rule it in or out officially.

    Now, back to the migraines. My worst ones were connected to my periods and ovulations, but I got that sort of under control with birth control shots once every 10 weeks. Still was in a lot of pain though, and needed medication every 6-8 hours, including nights, for 4 days every 2 weeks. That's often. At the moment I am following a carnivore diet though, which is close to zero carbs. And it gave me migraines for 2 solid weeks, because I just dove in without reading enough about it and didn't realise I really, really needed electrolyte supplements, (Didn't need it when going keto, just had some salt and called it good) so I wouldn't get dehydrated in the process. In the meantime I also found that my excessive tea drinking ,including herbal ones with licorice root in, triggered a migraine within 2 hours of consumption. At this moment I still get hormonal migraines. But I can fix them with half a dose a day rather than a half or whole dose every 6-8 hours. That's an improvement I can't even... That's.... Huge. And a reason for me to stick with this way of eating. Carbs are inflammatory and there is some indication that the blood vessels get inflamed when carbs are involved. Fluctuations in blood pressure, hormones, and hydration really do matter. So drink enough, try getting some electrolytes in, maybe cut the carbs, (Keto could well be enough to help you, it just wasn't quite enough for me) and see what it gets you. Just be ready to get one heck of a riot on your hands when your body discovers it's not getting what it craves anymore. I'm not kidding about the electrolytes. I don't leave home without them now.

    By the way, there's a bunch of possible migraine triggers you might not suspect. Fruit (especially citrus fruits), coffee, tea, chocolate, hazelnuts, peanuts, vitamin D supplements, soft cheeses, yoghurt, vinegar, but also non-foods like bright lights and smells. Perfume, incense, that sort of thing.

    Hope some of this'll help!
    Jo
     
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  6. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    I concur with the others, unless you have the tests, the reason for your symptoms can never be explained, and getting a glucometer would be worth trying.
    I am on a Keto diet as there are certain foods that I cannot tolerate , for example I am lactose intolerant, and because of having these intolerant foods, I was having symptoms in my early years including migraines, since I gave up dairy when I discovered I was lactose intolerant, the migraines have completely disappeared and a lot of other symptoms went away as soon I went Keto and lost weight and my health improved.

    One of the most important things you can do to help your doctors understand what is going on is keep a food diary and using a glucometer to monitor your blood glucose levels can help so much.

    Keep safe
     
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  7. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Thank you for the responses. I will check out a BG monitor as it might be that I'm Ok with some things and not others, so I can carry on and not exclude those with no reaction, though I guess different combo's may caused different reactions.

    As mentioned in my post I can't do keto even though I would like to as I can't cope with the fat levels. I am trying a low glycemic diet (Patrick Holford) not for weight loss but for maintenance. That doesn't seem to call for high fat and meat that much, so thought I would start there. I don't eat red meat, only a bit of fish as suspect that can be a migraine trigger, but I do have chicken and prawns, but try to keep dairy to a minimum as I'm dairy intolerant (tested). I might try veggies for snacks rather than fruit with peanut butter. Its a mine field out there. So many people say not to snack, keep meals to a minimum so don't have so many insulin reactions, but I don't think that s for me - not at this stage anyway. Its also difficult to fit in with family meals and society. Seem to be going from one meal to planning another at the moment.

    I think I'm OK hydration wise as I have some scales that measure moisture in the body as well as weight and fat and muscle etc and it seems normal, as I have also suspected that in the past. Tried allsorts!. Thanks for the prompt though as I may need to increase if a low carb diet affects this.

    I also checked out a really good Youtube video Elena Gross (PhD study on migraine. She also had really bad migraines and has calmed with keto/low carb) who discusses migraine being a metabolic condition, and similar connections with epilepsy and the benefit of a keto/low carb diet and probably best not to fast if you have migraine. In a way its what got me started in this area, I'm just scratching the surface at the moment so thanks for help :)
     
  8. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    To someone like me who like you is dairy intolerant (lactose, a sugar) and of course my RH I'm am susceptible to so called healthy foods, for instance, low GI,wheat or grains that the dieticians insist we need, are really bad for me!
    It has to be healthy for you. You have to find out what the right balance of protein, fats and carbs you can tolerate, for me, the carbs are very, very low! Due to your other conditions, fats may be too much, so protein should be higher. A good reduction of carbs will help anyway and I wouldn't worry too much about what is called healthy foods. Some vegetables are bad for me. The highest spike I get is from potatoes, really! It's the amount of starch that is a carb! So even some fruit and vegetables have to be careful with.

    Keep safe
     
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  9. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Thank you so much for that. Yes I'm aware of the coffee chocolate thing, and some others on your list, I have tried most but strangely enough I don't have the caffeine as I don't tolerate it well, but when I do get a migraine its one of my first go to's and sometimes it does help to shift it if i get in early enough. Apparently it speeds up the metabolism and shifts on release of energy which may help get me some energy to my brain faster? Or it could be that is vasoconstricts and reduces inflammation as you mentioned. If not then I'm left with a migraine, caffeine weirdness and similar other unpleasant symptoms in that hypo list. I also cannot stand tea when having a migraine, and when trying that for the caffeine it makes me so nauseous. I was hoping once I got through the menopause, and the menstrual migraines and at ovulation like yourself, my migraines might go but a the moment, its not looking that way. I'm not fully menopausal. I hate taking pharmaceuticals so if I can cope by using diet as my medication, then that would be great. The painkillers dont help that much.
     
  10. MrsA2

    MrsA2 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My migraines are often triggered by light, and are definitely worse in stormy weather. Its not always food that is the cuplrit for me, but rather a combination or build up of things. For example a low winter morning sun reflecting off a pond or icy surface, or a week of orange juice for breakfast, or just because its Saturday after a busy week, something to do with the relaxing

    Try different lighting at home if they are very constant, or proximity to large electrical things such as pylons
     
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  11. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Thanks for your suggestions. I do think they are are build up of many things but for me I feel main triggers are the low blood sugar, followed by hormones (apparently when they fluctuate) and them possibly sleep and stress and possibly weather pressure changes. I avoid citrus to especially any concentrated juice as think its the oil and pulp rather than just the juice that maybe I can't tolerate well.

    How do people cope with exercise, as I see it mentioned on here and heard before that some cannot exercise with migraine. I never really thought how this affected me before until recently. If I go for an early dog walk with my mum, I generally get a migraine, even if I have breakfast before I go or take bits with me, usually and apple! I also do yoga and the Thursday class is always challenging and gets the heart racing and lasts an hour. I usually have dinner straight after, a chicken tray bake for example which replenishes me but sometimes I've felt like my energy reserves had hit rock bottom and had to sit on the sofa for the rest of the night being unable to move for fear I would flake out. I do love to do the yoga as we also do a meditation at the end which helps with stress but how would I load up before without using carbs? Do I just prepare earlier to give time for non carby options to provide me with energy? I also walk too later in the day for approx 30 mins as feel my energy tank is more stable by this time, and can fit in with life schedule, or may do a small HIT session (in winter if weather rubbish and I don't want to go out) which seems OK as a shorter more intense session. As mentioned it is my mornings that are the worse and my main area to work and build on for now. I feel that would have a big benefit. I have yoga at 10am today, but Sundays are a calmer more stretch class so not as exerting, though definitely feel it in the muscles afterwards. I have had a small hi lo bread (not tried before, bought yesterday as a lower carb bread option) with peanut butter and the a bowl of no sugar added soya yogurt with seeds, flaked almonds and coconut and a passion fruit and 2 small apricots. I'm still feeling a bit flaky so don't think it has done what I need to get energy levels replenished as yet so feel like I need to grab something else yet surely this would be enough food for a "normal" person and |I'm only small (5ft). I'm trying this newer approach of a slice of complex carb toast with my yogurt instead of with oats. I might try eggs tomorrow which would be a departure for me. Maybe get a few seeds in that as I feel I like those for the nutrients.
     
  12. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    I’d agree that for those with chronic, frequent migraines there are wider factors in play than the ‘simple’ triggers which may more easily be spotted for those with far less frequent episodic migraine. Unpicking the underlying issues - blood sugar, hormones - will likely unlock a path to reducing frequency and/or severity.

    For myself I know that a number of things I once held as unequivocal causes/triggers for migraines, or for making them worse no longer hold true. Most significant among these are fasting/missing a meal/eating later than usual. I mention this not to promote or encourage you to try them, or suggest that exactly what worked for me will work for you, but as an example of how a change in one area - in my case blood sugar control - might lead to change in another. It was an absolutely enormous leap for me to try skipping breakfast just once. Enormous. And it didn’t come until I was over 6 months into my journey and felt ready to give it a go.

    I’d suggest eating food as low in carb as you can - your suggestion of eggs is a great one. It is a myth that carbs are needed for energy. Giving your body something to work with that won’t exacerbate blood sugar fluctuations would be key, I think.

    These days I can exercise fasted, but that’s been a very long time coming and I wouldn’t recommend it as a starting strategy while you try to sort everything out.

    You might be interested in the work if Dr Angela Stanton if you haven’t already come across her in your search.

    I really hope you get to the bottom of this. I well remember the all consuming nature of intractable, chronic migraines. There are no easy solutions.
     
  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    As @Goonergal says, you don’t need to rely on carbs for energy - and it sounds like you do that a lot! - protein and fat are excellent energy sources.

    I know you said you can’t cope with high fat, but you don’t need to. Just try dropping the carbs and increasing the protein.
    Your chicken tray bake probably has some form of carbs in it. Pasta? Potato? Well just replace them with half as much chicken again, leeks, and/or courgettes. Then scatte a sprinkle of grated cheese on top. The traybake probably has cheese on top anyway, yes?

    Just think about what you usually eat, then shift the proportions around.
    There are many reasons why people don’t eat fat, from gall stones to fat phobia, with 50 other reasons in between. Some of them can be compensated for by a v slow ramping up of fat intake over several weeks. If you had an unknown illness 8 years ago, then sneaking in an extra g or 2 of fat per meal, increasing over time, may well be doable.

    When I went carnivore, the first few weeks were hard. I found that my stomach simply wasn’t releasing the digestive enzymes I needed to handle the meat. A truly wonderful person on another forum suggested that I try digestive enzymes to supplement my own, and - like magic - problem solved. I used Solgar digestive enzymes, but there are plenty of other brands. You might benefit from ones that digest fat.

    Hope that helps!
     
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  14. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Hiya,Thank you for your suggestions. I am logging the time between my last meal and breakfast to see if this has any impact on getting a migraine. I might be able to gradually push it longer and see what happens. The bedtime snack is also a question of whether i should have this or not, so again its all trial and error. This of course would shorten the gap between last meal and breakfast next day. I have to say I don't feel satisfied with my breakfast this morning, eaten plenty but doesn't seem enough.

    If anyone is in a hypo how do they get out of it? Do they have carbs then? As mentioned I have tried something called 15:15 when I have started to feel weird and shaky and what i call heady. It is to take 15 g of fast acting carbs wait 15 mins and if |Ok then follow with a carby/protein meal. If not repeat the 15 :15 again till stable. This has helped me which is why I think its a blood glucose issue.
     
  15. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    First question I would ask is whether you know for sure you’re having a hypo? Have you been able to test?

    If having a genuine hypo then yes, some fast acting carbs will help and there are plenty on here that could advise on that ( to me as being an unmedicated type2 that doesn’t affect me).

    However if what you’re experiencing is not a hypo, but blood sugar fluctuations, then fast acting carbs may well contribute to a vicious circle. I well remember feeling shaky etc. but given my HbA1c number on diagnosis, serious doubt whether I was ever hypo, rather my blood sugars had dropped a bit lower than the high levels they were used to running at.
     
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  16. siddaraj

    siddaraj · Newbie

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    Normal Monitoring Blood Sugar Level:
    Glucose ought to be tried consistently. Records ought to be kept up of the blood tests, medications and day by day occasions. Patient ought to request a hemoglobin AIC test in any event two times every year. Ought to do a customary circulatory strain check ups cholesterol tests and other blood related tests. In any event once a year have an enlarged eye test to check for eye malady, foot test to check flow and pee test to check kidney work. Surveys ought to be made with the medical care supplier.

    Cutoff Sugar Intake
    A great many people believe that sugar is just present in sweet nourishments, for example, chocolates, pasties or frozen yogurt however actually a lot of refined starches, for example, white flours, bread, and white rice are handily changed over into glucose too. Individual ought to stay away from liquor and smoking. Smoking harms wellbeing circulatory framework which can prompt coronary illness and helpless flow for individuals with diabetes.

    Get Fiber and Protein
    Diet plan ought to remember fiber for type of crude organic products, vegetables, entire grains and so on. Wheat grain ought to be added to wheat flour. This will build fiber in diet. Flaxseed and fenugreek seeds can be included into the wheat flour. Cholesterol-bringing down cereal can be taken in breakfast. White meat, for example, chicken, Fish and shellfish are useful for diabetics. Cinnamon, garlic, onion, unpleasant melon and guar gum are a great idea to lessen blood glucose level.

    Get Physical Activity
    Subsequent to counseling the concerned specialist the patient ought to enjoy a customary physical movement. First of all moderate strolling and swimming is exhorted. Yoga is likewise a decent choice. All the exercises ought to incorporate a calm life.

    Home Remedies to maintain blood sugar
    Scarcely any regular home cures also can be attempted at home to control sugar.

    1. Bubble 15 new mango leaves in 1 glass of water. Leave for the time being. Channel and drink before anything else.

    2. Drink a watery juice of a little severe gatekeeper (eliminate seeds) each morning.

    3. Eat delicate curry leaves two times per day to lessen sugar

    4. Take a juice of squashed fish berry absorbed water for a day before anything else.
     
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  17. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I think you need to start doing systematic blood glucose testing.
    Diabetics who hypo should use fast acting carbs to treat it.
    And people with RH are usually told to do the same.

    My experience of RH is that treatment plan is a disaster.
    All it did was trip me into a high-low blood glucose rollercoaster, that left me reeling for days.

    Again, my experience of RH is so simple, so basic, that people often seem to struggle to get their head around it.
    It is the carbs that cause the RH by causing an excess of insulin being produced to deal with them. This causes the bg to drop sharply, causing the hypo feelings. So if the carbs are avoided, then so is the rest of the aggro.

    So you really need to find out (using a blood glucose monitor and a detailed food diary, food, timings, portion sizes) whether you are experiencing significant blood glucose fluctuations. That can then inform your decisions about the best way to treat them, or whether you need to be looking at another root cause of your symptoms (e.g. food intolerances).
     
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  18. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    Hi All, so I got through yoga and migraine free so far today.:happy: Just had a snack 2hr 20min after breakfast to see me through till lunch (half piece rye bread and cottage cheese). Usually I love a salty caramel hot choc afterwards just on a Sunday morning as a treat but ditched it recently.

    It might be that I am not hypo and just react to drops in my blood sugar levels, I just dont know but it sure is awful and a lot on that hypo list I can tick off.

    I think I became more of a carb head since the stomach illness, but it is mainly complex carbs a I'm not a junk food, low fibre fan. Basically it was like having a stomach ulcer without having one. I had an ultrasound for gall stones and all ok and paid myself to have a camera to my stomach as at that age was a bit young to do on NHS without waiting ages, and I was getting desperate as couldn't eat hardly anything. Luckily came back with no issues and gradually I turned it around by eating what felt OK and that could get me some weight back. Non fatty carby things seemed to be choice such as a jacket spud.

    The chicken tray bake is mainly chicken with either a lentil or a chickpea addition and then some veggies. Not potatoes or rice or bread. This does vary depending. I will try a bit more chicken though my husband won't like it as he usually get a bit of mine :chicken:.

    I will try the lower carbs without loads more fat (think i'm ok with coconut oil for some reason but but not so much with butter and cream etc) and try to increase protein and see how I get on. I tried adding more recently but those stomach issues started coming back, so I backed off again, took my lovely stomach calming remedy and it seems to have settled again now. I did try the papaya enzymes for digestion, but not sure they helped. They tasted lovely though. So I just have to be really careful not to end up there again. One suspicion of mine was that I had been following a migraine diet that advised cutting out aged foods, pickles, etc and I think that could have messed up my microbiome, but again it was one of those things that was difficult to fathom, could it have been stress etc and all again in search of the golden chalice of a migraine cure.
     
  19. BBTempleN

    BBTempleN Don't have diabetes · Member

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    As mentioned previously I may check out a CGM to get to where I need to be a bit quicker? Not sure how I would cope with all the finger pricks. I think I saw that you can just buy the sensor to put in your arm and then it connects to an app on your mobile, so you don;t have to buy the monitor too. I think that was a Free Style Libre.
     
  20. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    If you can afford it a Libre sensor - you can use it on a mobile, just check yours I’d compatible - will give you a lot more insight than finger pricks alone. Finger pricks are not nearly so bad as they sound though!
     
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