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Any comments on DUK info, Ally?

IanD

IanD

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,429
Location
Peterchurch, Hereford
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Carbohydrates
Ally, you had a lot to say on another thread until I posted this. I would appreciate your comments - in my experience, diabetics are being fed rubbish information & advised to eat food that will CAUSE COMPLICATIONS.

Please note my questions. I've added one.

IanD said:
I've just got the latest Type 2 leaflet from DUK from my chemist. I have asked for it repeatedly for many months.
(C) 2009 Egton Medical Info Systems.

It has much useful info BUT it includes these gems:

various foods are broken down in your gut into sugars.
No mention of what foods

the main aims of treatment are:
to keep your blood glucose as near normal as possible.
target HbA1c 6.5 - 7.5%
Obviously that is intended to imply the normal range - but I had complications at 6.7.
Actually the non-diabetic range is 3.5-5.0.

some people check their actual BS each day. If you are advised to do this your Dr or nurse will give you instructions
Obviously not necessary, except on professional advice.

healthy diet as recommended for everyone - low fat, high fibre, plenty of starchy foods, fruit & veg.
This is dangerous disinfo in my experience. There is no mention of cutting back on sugar!
Click to expand...
Ally - will you endorse or criticise this?

1. What is your recommendation for HBA?

2. Patient testing?

3. Quantity of starchy foods?

4. Can you refer us to an simple leaflet you endorse, or even post the info you give your patients?
Click to expand...
 
Steady on, mate - don't hold your breath for direct answers to any of this. Ally5555's style is more just rubbishing the answers lo-carb posters give, not answering any that are directed at her...

Edited ..Sugarless Sue.
 
First of all - I have asked the mods tospeak to people about making personal attacks and snide remarks - no reply so far! Patch you like to do this about me - now stop it please there is no need for it.

ian - sorry there were so many posts forgot yours!

I have said before that I do not agree with DUK dietary info - I posted a while ago somewhere! that i had spoken to them and they do not seem to be in tune! They claim they are reviewing their dietary advice this year.

I think that one has to remember that leaflets give very general advice and are not specific to the individual!

To answer your questions:-

1) I am not sure what leaflet you have but the comment about foods being broken down is useless!
2)The HBA is out of date - maybe it is an old leaflet?
3)I agree portion sizes re carbs and if it is not mentioning sugar specifically then I give up!
4) what do they mean by low fat ?

What is the title of the leaflet? Is it a DUK produced

If that is all it is saying then it is useless.

DUK has a real place for diabetics but I tell my own pts not to look at the dietary advice - altho I do like some of the recipes.

so no I dont endorse their leaflets - does that ans your questiions.
 
It is regrettable that NICE guidelines for an HbA1c are the range between 6.5% and 7.5%. DUK repeating NICE guidelines is hardly Ally's responsibility.

What about personalisation of care Ally? Should we be placed into a compliant bucket where all our HbA1cs are in this range or should we strive for a level we as individuals are comfortable with?

Regards, Tubs.
 
Some more posts have been added since I wrote this but I'll still add it.
Before anyone ploughs, as I expect they will given previous, bullying, hectoring postings. (and I note they have already started, one mistake with Allys name, Patch could be a mistyping, but its obviously deliberate and I find it both childish and offensive)
I refer you to 2 linkshttp://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/27000151/
http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/23068721/
The leaflet that Ian quotes from is I suggest a combination of the 2 available on the net (certainly the quotations come from them. Their source is patient UK not DUK. Egton Medical Info Systems is the producer (they seem to provide the IT support for the NHS.
If you really want to find a simple leaflet endorsed by dietitians read the one from the BDA suggested by Tubs yesterday,
http://www.bda.uk.com/foodfacts/071114Diabetes.pdf
If you go to the DUK website you will find far more detail about their suggestions for diet and lifestyle than that given in the leaflet. You should take in its entirety, this includes protion control for weight loss, use of the gi index, monitoring and not forgetting exercise. I recall that Ally has said before that she disagrees with some of their dietary advice. The diabetes UK site also has an introductory video describing in simple terms the processes of glucose control in the normal system and with type 1 and 2 diabetes.

However every single one of these leaflets/sources say that you should seek advice so that diet is adapted to your own circumstances.
' A practice nurse and/or dietician will give details on how to eat a healthy diet.' patient uk leaflet
'Diabetes UK recommends that everyone with diabetes should see a registered dietitian at diagnosis, and then have regular reviews for specific advice on their eating habits.'

'All people with diabetes should have access to a dietitian at diagnosis, either through structured patient education in groups or as an individual consultation. You may ask your GP to refer you
to a dietitian at any time but this is often useful at timeswhen changes are being made to your diabetes treatment' (BDA leaflet)
Obviously how well this is done will vary.
 
Thanks Ally. How do we get through to DUK? That leaflet was specially printed for this week.

Please, Ally, understand that we are being given rubbish info - & only people who come to websites such as this, or who are under your personal care, will get helpful info. Please don't defend your profession as it gives out disinfo. Attacks are on the info, not you personAlly.
 
Remember the forum policies ,folks.

Do not be rude or offensive
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please try and go by the rule of only speaking to people here as you would on a face to face basis. Do not try and shock, upset or offend. Debate and discussion are fine, as are controversial opinions, but each individual should be treated with respect and tolerance. Remember, everyone is different in age, experience and the nature of their diabetes. Finding common ground and sharing help is the purpose of this forum.
Click to expand...

Flaming is never tolerated on the forum.Individual members have already been warned about this.

Sugarless Sue ...Senior Moderator.
 
Hi - thanks Sue for that - I don't like the silly stuff!!!

thanks for puting the BDA foodfacts link on there phoenix. I will have a look later at that other leaflet. We give pts our own dos and donts list before they see me.

I must say they cannot be seen as individual advice but some general info - before they see a dietitian. Problem is often people wait months - we are very lucky as some people are seen the same week and a max wait is 2-3 weeks.

Ian - as far as DUK don't know what anyone can do - I put my own details into the menu planner and it told me that if I was a type 2 I could have ice cream, cereal bar , cake and biscuits all in one day- I dont eat that anyway! I pointed that out to the dietitian I spoke to and that all the portion sizes were different - not just for carbs but protein and were in different measurements!
 
Yay, it looks like I've found what I was looking for!
I just joined the other day and was hoping to track down some helpful advice from a qualified medic about the foods I should be eating. Am I right in thinking you are a nutritionist ally555?
I hope you don't mind me asking you, but I've been eating according to the advice I've had from a dietitian at my local clinic. She says I need to eat things like breakfast cereals, bread and pasta. I need to be careful not to eat fat because of the risk of heart disease. My blood sugars are pretty rubbish and either I'm not doing it right, or who knows what. No matter what I do, I can't get good blood sugars on a regular basis. Maybe once in a blue moon if I'm lucky.
Can you tell me if my dietitian is right and I'm just doing it wrong?
Thank you in advance
(Don't want to hijack the thread, sorry!)
Spike
 
Spike can i ask you a question ??

Why do you want to know whether the advice you have already been give is right or wrong ?

Dave P
 
Spike,

you have been given the standard NHS/DUK advice we all get. The aim is to get good control of blood sugars. If your readings average more than say 7, bearing in mind that non-diabetics will average below 5, then you need tailored advice. In particular be aware that carbs in your diet metabolise to blood glucose.

The experience of many on this forum is that drastic reduction of carbs is beneficial, & that eating alternatives like meat, cheese, nuts, & a rainbow of vegetables, will reduce blood sugars & improve general health. In my case it also reduced my weight & bad cholesterol & triglycerides.
 
Thanks again guys.

Dave P, the reason I ask is that, having followed the advice pretty closely, my health is no better. It fact it is worsening. If the first part of the Hipocratic oath is to do no harm with medical intervention, then has the dietary advice failed this test?
If the advice is correct and my health is still deteriorating, then the cause lies elsewhere.
If the advice is incorrect, then this is the likely reason my health is deteriorating.
Quite an important question then?
I warned you I was a sceptic.

Spike
 
Spike ... I asked a question , i got an answer. But more importantly did you get your answer ?? ( from Ally i mean )

Best wishes Dave P
 
Hi Dave, no answer yet I'm afraid. As a nutritionist, he/she probably has a lot of people looking for answers? Maybe there's another thread where I could ask the question so it would get noticed?
Thanks mate,
Spike
 
Spike you are very astute ....... she does indeed have lots of people waiting for answers to questions asked previously on this site, too many for me to list.

Black humour... you will probably get your plot number before the answer :lol:
Dave P
 
Ally did not design or contribute to the leaflets mentioned. She is not a one man band when it comes to dietary advice given to diabetics and she has explained on previous topics that she advocates a low g.i. diet for her patients and that diabetics need to restrict starchy carbohydrates to a level that suits them. It is common sense, (that rare commodity nowday's) that if this diet is not working for you then on your next visit to her then you would be advised on modifications.
Surely it is our responsibilty as to what goes in our digestive system? If we find a food sends our blood sugars into orbit then shouldn't we cut the portion we are eating or subtract it from our diet? If we go on eating some foods that are not suitable for us and we know it, this is not the dietitian's fault. I know that this is difficult for some Type 2's as they are being denied test strips. This is why it is essential to complain about being unable to manage their diabetes. (There are many suggestions as to how to go about this throughout the forum).
Ally is not personally responsible for the advice that was given to you, your great aunt, your mother, father, sister, brother, the local butcher or your neighbour and directing your anger at her does this forum no favours.
I noticed that when she analysed some diets for foum members it showed that some were deficient in certain areas. Not all contributers thanked her or asked advice as to how to rectify the deficiency
and are still complaining about her. This to me says that they do not want her advice anyway and she seems to be the scapegoat for all dietitians.
She is entitled to her views as is every other forum member. Sniping at her and being rude and provocative goes against the forum ethos. There are many forum members who read through but never contribute to any threads. They form their own opinions about what they read.
Moderators have extra work to do on a thread like this and may miss some posts that need censoring. If we all previewed our posts and reflected on what we have written then these situations would not arise.
 
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