Are we really wrong about fat?

Guzzler

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Thank you Guzzler - I will direct my attempts to understand 'fats' in that direction. Cheese, however, is man-made but hardly processed I would have thought (at least not as much as other products) would appreciate
your thoughts in this respect please.

You are right, of course. I have always disliked 'processed' cheese i.e the orange stuff that usually comes pre sliced and tastes like soft plastic. One could argue that cooking foods is processing it but I am speaking of chemical processing as in the case of vegetable oils. I eat a lot of cheese, especially cheddar, without it I would struggle to get enough fat into my diet.
 

zand

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I was recently sorting out a box of old papers and came across a lot of leaflets and articles that I saved years ago. They were about healthy eating and all suggested low fat, high carb. I threw them all out but looked through them first. I was moved to tears by what I found. I was shocked to find a leaflet from World Cancer Research Fund dated 1992 entitled 'A fat lot of good that will do you' - a leaflet showing how reducing fat intake would not only help protect you from cancer but also coronary problems too. I hadn't been aware that cancer charities were promoting low fat too.

Next I found a free leaflet from Woman's Realm - The Good Fat Diet guide. This was promoting So Good soya products which were said to lower cholesterol (in a similar way to Benecol I presume). The diet was high carb low fat. On the back was the following article about a TV presenter.

TV presenter **** tries to keep as fit as possible. As the mother of two small boys with a hectic working, life she's very careful about what she eats...
She knows well how devastating heart disease can be as her father died of a heart attack.
'It's made me realise that you can do something to help prevent problems', she says. 'One step is to lower high levels of cholesterol in your blood and to eat sensibly. In Japan and China, where soya beans are eaten regularly, the instance of heart disease is much lower than our own. By using delicious SO GOOD soy drink in cooking or on cereals you get all the health benefits of soya on a daily basis.
'This Good Fat Diet helps to keep cholesterol levels down. The Cholesterol-buster menu has been devised by the makers of SO GOOD to help you and your partner lower the levels of bad blood cholesterol and achieve a healthy weight. Make a fresh start and a positive decision for better health. I have and I feel much the better for it. SO can you!'


Now I know none of us know what's in store for us, and there's really no point saying 'If only' , but I can't help wondering if things would have turned out better for the celebrity mentioned if she had followed a LCHF diet and not tried to lower her cholesterol. We now know that it's glucose that causes inflammation, and all carbs turn to glucose. We also now know that inflammation can cause/aggravate cancer and that cholesterol is there to protect against inflammation.

The celebrity featured on the leaflet was Caron Keating.

Who knows what might have been, but just maybe fewer carbs and higher cholesterol might have been enough to heal the inflammation before the cancer started? Yes, I know we can't possibly make that connection for certain, but the title of this thread is 'Are we really wrong about fat?' and above is a tiny bit of 'evidence' that seems to suggest we could have been horrendously wrong in the past.

Several months back I remember Gloria Hunniford on TV talking about the con artists telling people that apricot kernels etc and all sorts of weird potions could cure cancer. She said it was heart-breaking to see her lovely daughter given hope and have it dashed away again. These people who preyed on those who desperately wanted to live were sick, callous human beings.

How much worse then are the scientists and charities that promoted the low fat high carb diets that have made so many of us sick?
 
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Guzzler

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In this 45 min presentation the good doctor puts forward his hypothesis on fats. It does get quite technical in the middle but is well worth a watch.

 
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pdmjoker

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How much worse then are the scientists and charities that promoted the low fat high carb diets that have made so many of us sick?
I suppose, though, that most scientists and charities are well-meaning and acting in ignorance whereas some people deliberately prey on those with cancer etc. I realise that there are those in the medical profession (like Hegsted, Prof of Nutrition at Harvard who was in the pocket of the sugar industry) who have knowingly deceived, but I guess most health professionals are just as mislead as the rest of us...
Edit: Here's a link to the Hegsted story:
https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/12/sugar-industry-harvard-research/
 
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zand

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I suppose, though, that most scientists and charities are well-meaning and acting in ignorance whereas some people deliberately prey on those with cancer etc. I realise that there are those in the medical profession (like Hegsted, Prof of Nutrition at Harvard who was in the pocket of the sugar industry) who have knowingly deceived, but I guess most health professionals are just as mislead as the rest of us...
Edit: Here's a link to the Hegsted story:
https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/12/sugar-industry-harvard-research/
Yes, you're right. I was being too harsh in the way I expressed myself. I am just so angry at the amount of damage caused by one man's hypothesis. I just don't understand why they all believed Ancel Keys in the first place.
 

pdmjoker

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I am just so angry at the amount of damage caused by one man's hypothesis.
I get pretty angry over the injustice too. Who wouldn't? I'm not sure I always know how to process or constructively react to it, though...
I gather that for some people, what Ancel Keys was saying appealed to their vested interests so they were happy to adopt the "avoid animal/sat fat" advice for all...
 

Oldvatr

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I get pretty angry over the injustice too. Who wouldn't? I'm not sure I always know how to process or constructively react to it, though...
I gather that for some people, what Ancel Keys was saying appealed to their vested interests so they were happy to adopt the "avoid animal/sat fat" advice for all...
From what I remember of the timings, the Ancel Keys message seems to have concided with the launch of margerine. Sales were struggling since it tasted of nothing and was like axle grease. So I suspect a very successful advertising and sales pitch evolved extolling the' healthiness' of the new industrial artificicial wonder spreads. This was in the days of Crisco and Stork, and before the Flora days. Marge was a solution needing a problem to fix, and Ancel provided a convenient 'truth'.
 
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Guzzler

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Yes, you're right. I was being too harsh in the way I expressed myself. I am just so angry at the amount of damage caused by one man's hypothesis. I just don't understand why they all believed Ancel Keys in the first place.

Not everyone did, was it Yudkin whose carreer was virtually ended by Keys when he refuted the diet/heart hypothesis? Keys was a forceful character and he had clout in the field (why, when his thesis was fish physiology and he originally studied economics, is what I can't understand).
 
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pdmjoker

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pdmjoker

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I think Yudkin was right re Pure White and Deadly but its a shame that he did not yet have the mechanistic reason for this in the early '70s.. Even Keys latterly admitted that we should not have been so concerned about cholesterol.
According to Dr Malcolm Kendrick:
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/...t-cannot-raise-cholesterol-levels-ldl-levels/

"It is now accepted that cholesterol in the diet has no significant impact on blood cholesterol levels. Keys even knew this himself.

To quote him from a paper in 1956:

‘In the adult man the serum cholesterol level is essentially independent of the cholesterol intake over the whole range of human diets.’

In 1997 Keys wrote this:

“There’s no connection whatsoever between cholesterol in food and cholesterol in blood. And we’ve known that all along. Cholesterol in the diet doesn’t matter at all unless you happen to be a chicken or a rabbit.” Ancel Keys, Ph.D., professor emeritus at the University of Minnesota 1997."

Edit: ie a chicken or a rabbit who may or may not get eaten!
 

BaliRob

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Oldvatr - thank you for your input - I would never have thought that sugar would be added to cheese in any form - it is misleading and disgraceful (yes I know I can read the label) and should take pride of place in this thread (discussion) - thanks again.
 

BaliRob

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You are right, of course. I have always disliked 'processed' cheese i.e the orange stuff that usually comes pre sliced and tastes like soft plastic. One could argue that cooking foods is processing it but I am speaking of chemical processing as in the case of vegetable oils. I eat a lot of cheese, especially cheddar, without it I would struggle to get enough fat into my diet.
As I posted - I use mild cheddar to combat hunger pangs and, on occasions, will shred it for scrambled eggs. Thanks for your contribution - makes writing something worthwhile.