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Are we really wrong about fat?

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by ghost_whistler, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. SheilaSalop

    SheilaSalop · Member

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    Thank you for introducing me to Malcolm Kendrick - very interesting!
     
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  2. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    I'm aware of people that have ended up with huge triglyceride numbers in relation to LC diets, so it's not a case of one size fits all, and I think that's the biggest issue with nutrition.

    It's not really a science and it is open to a dogmatic approach, because certain things work for certain people in certain cases and so far evidence can and has been presented, whether manipulated or not, about all of them. People jump on something that works for them and promote it, whether it is applicable to all or not.

    I tend to agree with @Brunneria's point of view on this.
     
  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Its normally LDL that rises (sometimes by a lot) did you mean that rather than trigs?
     
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  4. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    No. I meant trigs. That's the point. He was a long term user of a low carb diet, and had a trigs count of 25 mmol/l. They tested him multiple times because they didn't believe it.
     
  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Interesting.. do you know what the outcome was?
     
  6. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
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    From what I understood they went straight for Statins and recommended diet changes. But I don't know the full details. It was a passing conversation in clinic about different approaches to lower Hba1C in people with Type 1.
     
  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Doubly interesting as statins are usually claimed to lower LDL ... but I guess we'll never know.
     
  8. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    To add to this ldl can rise on LCHF in what are called hyper responders (see the work of Dave Feldman). Then the question is does it matter in the context of a low carb diet? People do not know yet. But we do know there are plenty of people with low ldl having heart attacks and we do know that having high insulin and/or poor blood sugar control is associated with those heart attacks.
    Nutrition is a very young science and seems insufficiently vigorous when it is used to make public health decisions. At least the tendency to partisanship and dogmatism is universal across the extremities of the dietary tribes.
     
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  9. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    So while we're all trying to get our heads around published data, the terminology, the manipulated figures, the abrevs and jargon etc we then have to decide whether to beleive the data that has been published, wonder about the unpublished data and whether the studies have been ghost written or not.
    I need to move next door to John 'Des' Ionnides.
     
  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I think he'd say ignore most of it and do what feels right. I reckon a food type mankind has been thriving on for the past 2 1/2 million years is probably ok for us to eat now.
     
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  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I couldn't agree more. We've been eating the stuff since before we came down from the trees yet since the demonisation of sat fat and the advent of ultra highly refined foodstuffs our longevity has actually begun (recently) to decline. It just makes no sense.
     
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  12. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    My trigs have gone down since being on LCHF - when on the 'cholesterol lowering' diet I don't know - somehow the results were not recorded. Hmmm.
     
  13. Aly67

    Aly67 Type 2 · Newbie

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  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I believe that some people have a genetic disposition to high cholesterol
    https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000392.htm

    This is a recognised medical condition established before LCHF took the nations attention or grabbef the headlines.

    A level of 25 mmol/l is excessive by any dietary standards, and would suggest something else is responsible, but possibly aided and abetted by diet.

    Some people have had their gall bladders removed, and need to take care of fat ingestion, but again their cholestetol levels do not seem to rise to that level.
     
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  15. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    If he was v fit and did lots of exercise, that would cause trigs to rise simply because of his energy requirements... I gather HDL is inversely proportional to trigs yet less variable/susceptible to fluctuations...
     
  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Quod me nutrit me destruit. In fact every time we breathe in, we oxidize a bit more, which causes inflammation. Living ultimately results in death, We are indeed doomed.
     
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  17. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I gather breathing for a year causes damage from oxidation equivalent to 10,000 chest X-rays!
     
  18. BaliRob

    BaliRob Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have NEVER UNDERSTOOD which are good fats and which are bad. Everytime I get into readings posts
    on this subject I get contradictions of opinions EVERYTIME. Once told cheese was the only reliably safe
    food in this respect - now I see that cheese is under the magnifying glass - it's no wonder advance is slow
    towards getting a cure or definitive diets for us.
     
  19. pdmjoker

    pdmjoker Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is VERY confusing! I gather dairy, animal fats, coconut oil and olive oil are the good ones, but cooking with olive oil isn't recommended.
     
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Simple rule of thumb.. if it comes out of a factory its probably not good... so avoid (and personally I include olive oil in that to).
     
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