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Are we reurning to 'normal' too quickly.

JohnEGreen said:
Leicester lockdown tightened as coronavirus cases rise.
It's official.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53229371
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thanks.
This is a direct quote from @JohnEGreen ’s link.
He said the decision to close non-essential retail was based on clinical advice, and added that "children had been particularly impacted" by the local outbreak.
Five Leicester schools have closed since the beginning of June because of a number of coronavirus cases.

Which speaks to a discussion yesterday, on this very thread, about whether children are unlikely to pass the virus on.
 
Does it matter what age and race they are @ringi? Surely it matters more that they may pass it on to others, to their own and other people’s families and friends.
I know that like @Brunneria, our younger daughter and her family are concerned that people will travel to local towns when the pubs open on the 4th; they live just up the road from Leicester. Even if those travelling to go to the pub don’t spread the virus, the pub openings, and associated car journeys, could be a recipe for key worker overtime.
 
Leicester's demographic is somewhat skewed, versus the UK population.

There is a higher south Asian community, plus their fair share of Afro Caribbean and Vietnamese people. One of Leicester's great strengths is it inclusivity and cosmopolitan approach to people. It's a wonderful city, populated by some amazing people.

There is talk of poverty and many multi-generational households. Both are very true, but the multi-generational stuff is not solely financially driven, as some cultures see multi-generational households as simply the way to be.

I have an interesting meeting this morning, where I hope I might learn a little more about what's actually going on.

Interesting times, but I'm pleased not to live in the City at the moment.
 
Fairygodmother said:
I’ve just read an NYT article on Covid in the US and looking at what’s happened in Florida, I think we have to take very gentle baby steps when lifting lockdown.
Interestingly, the journalist equated the higher incidence of cases in the US and the lax attitude of the government, specifically Trump, with the contrast between the U.K. and Europe.
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Too late for baby steps I think, just wait until 4 July! x
 
If there’s anything you feel you can pass on to us about what’s going on @DCUKMod, please let us know? The papers today seem to be concentrating on the reluctance of some to try to lock down, the vagueness of the advice and the difficulty imposing travel restrictions.
 
JohnEGreen said:
A pity there is no emoticon for I think you are talking nonsense.
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Just questionning, as many are doing, the logic of mask wearing e.g. a risk/benefit analysis in a discussion which is very biased towards to mainstream view that masks work and that children are vectors of infection.
 
Fairygodmother said:
I suggest you look at the local hotspots that are emerging. It’s possible that Leicester, where some schools have also had to be closed because of positive tests, is probably facing another lockdown.
Surely, for the sake of everyone else, we should do our best to reduce transmission, and this includes wearing the best masks we can get our hands on.
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Leicester has an actual infection rate of 135 per 100,000. Does this mean that lockdown part 2 is justified? It assumes that lockdown works versus other options that don't involve putting the healthy under house arrest e.g. protecting the very vulnerable old/ill people and social distancing, hand washing.
 
Lockdown in the UK is one of those, words where they don't mean what people generally think they mean.

Lockdown UK means "vague encouragement to stay in an ill defined area, if you want to"

But it sounds priministerial to say lockdown, and then the residents can be blamed if the cases surge.
 
NicoleC1971 said:
Just questionning, as many are doing, the logic of mask wearing e.g. a risk/benefit analysis in a discussion which is very biased towards to mainstream view that masks work and that children are vectors of infection.
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NicoleC1971 said:
Leicester has an actual infection rate of 135 per 100,000. Does this mean that lockdown part 2 is justified? It assumes that lockdown works versus other options that don't involve putting the healthy under house arrest e.g. protecting the very vulnerable old/ill people and social distancing, hand washing.
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I doubt herd immunity would work. It’d take too long to achieve. Moreover, it’s a question of trying to save lives before a vaccine’s developed, if a vaccine’s developed.
You seem more concerned with civil liberties than you are with the tricky process of doing the best we can to reduce deaths.
This country is one of the few where masks are not mandatory and it has the worst death rates of the G7 countries.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Coronavirus: Young, fit and recovering https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53169736

@ NicoleC1971, the young and healthy can catch Covid too. Read the article. Yes, she’s recovering, but she’s been ill with it for a very long time, and she’s not recovered yet.
 
NicoleC1971 said:
Just questionning, as many are doing, the logic of mask wearing e.g. a risk/benefit analysis in a discussion which is very biased towards to mainstream view that masks work and that children are vectors of infection.
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Fair point and we should all be asking questions and listening to all sides.

I’m just not convinced that waiting til after I’ve exposed myself is the best time to say “oops should have been more cautious”. I’ll potentially be dead or suffering long term already by then and it’ll be a bit late to change tack at that point.

Better to be wary and then hopefully say it was unnecessary. An optimistic pessimist - hoping to be proved wrong but still doubtful I will be.
 
My personal point of view is that there are loads of questions about Covid that we and researchers don't know the definitive answers to so, until we do, it's best to be cautious to protect our own health.

I've lost four friends and a several acquaintances to it and I really don't want to be the next one. So if wearing a mask protects others around me then it would be selfish of me not to wear one and hope they feel the same.
 
HSSS said:
Nearly a 1000 new cases a day, people still dying in 100+ level on many days and a government level 3 of in general circulation doesn’t suggest the risk is gone. In fact the fall in cases appears to have stalled this week, not so coincidentally in the prime week for symptoms appearing after shops reopened!

Considering kids haven’t been at school since March in any significant numbers and probably those that have returned are less likely to include children with vulnerable family members what evidence would you expect to have seen? To prove what?

The lack of evidence argument works both ways. Risky or safe. And in both directions it has some truth.

The last article is only looking for evidence to support their cases so likely to only quote those studies. Others in favour of masks are citing opposing studies as is the way of these things when there is little consensus.
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I've included both studies for the sake of balance. Covid is still there of course
Fairygodmother said:
Coronavirus: Young, fit and recovering https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53169736

@ NicoleC1971, the young and healthy can catch Covid too. Read the article. Yes, she’s recovering, but she’s been ill with it for a very long time, and she’s not recovered yet.
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Ditto flu. I am well aware that being 49 and type 1 I may be at risk of suffering from it myself. It is just that I still would not shut down the country and advocate for mandatory masking.
However I am not into upsetting those who feel they need to wear a mask and will defer to their fear by keeping my distance!
 
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