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Are we reurning to 'normal' too quickly.

JohnEGreen said:
I think the whole of England has started whistling in the dark.
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Yep.
I also find it strange how press and media are no longer reporting on situation in Spain and Italy as they come out of lockdown too.
For a while our gaze was outward now we are back to being insular and inward looking
 
MrsA2 said:
Yep.
I also find it strange how press and media are no longer reporting on situation in Spain and Italy as they come out of lockdown too.
For a while our gaze was outward now we are back to being insular and inward looking
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Presumably because new cases there aren't growing so it doesn't support the "second wave" narrative?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Daily deaths in Spain appear to be single digit

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

Similar (not quite single digit but getting there) story in Italy.

Edit to add what I found amazing was that Prof Ferguson was being interviewed on the BBC this morning.. how can a completely discredited scientist still be spouting his opinion on the national media?
 
bulkbiker said:
Presumably because new cases there aren't growing so it doesn't support the "second wave" narrative?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Daily deaths in Spain appear to be single digit

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

Similar (not quite single digit but getting there) story in Italy.

Edit to add what I found amazing was that Prof Ferguson was being interviewed on the BBC this morning.. how can a completely discredited scientist still be spouting his opinion on the national media?
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Well Dominic Mckenzie Cummings is still running the country at least Prof Ferguson had the decency to resign.

And as to whether or not the second wave is just an unsupported theory we will not have too long to wait to find out.

Edit to add As far as I know Prof Ferguson's credentials as a scientist have in no way been called into question.
 
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DCUKMod said:
@Fairygodmother - still lots of,unanswered questions, but I'd wager this page, plusmadditions and revisions, could be helpful, moving forward.

https://news.leicester.gov.uk/news-...cester-to-be-extended-for-at-least-two-weeks/
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Thank you, it makes it a little more clear.
I’m finding it just a tad disturbing to see that the results of pillar 2 have been withheld, even from local authorities, until it’s absolutely necessary that the information’s released.
I also see on today’s news that there are a few other areas where the figures are worrying and could lead to more local lockdowns.
 
JohnEGreen said:
Well Dominic Mckenzie Cummings is still running the country at least Prof Ferguson had the decency to resign.

And as to whether or not the second wave is just an unsupported theory we will not have too long to wait to find out.

Edit to add As far as I know Prof Ferguson's credentials as a scientist have in no way been called into question.
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It really helps that we have the UKs very own 'Rasputin' pulling all the strings of government like some multi-armed Indian deity! :)
D.
 
This is a recent video by Dr John Campbell discussing the Swedish Covid 'experiment'
His disgust at the number of deaths, and the treatment of the elderly is plain.
In fact, he comes very close to saying that the denial of oxygen, and the dispensing of a cocktail of 'end of life' drugs (which suppress the breathing, to allow a comfortable exit) is tantamount to euthanasia, on a large scale.

 
JohnEGreen said:
I think the whole of England has started whistling in the dark.
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Hi John,
Hope you all stay well.
All we can do is our best to protect ourselves, families and friends.
I just hope people on here see the big picture and are not induced to take risks due to naysayers.
Best wishes
Derek
 
Brunneria said:
This is a recent video by Dr John Campbell discussing the Swedish Covid 'experiment'
His disgust at the number of deaths, and the treatment of the elderly is plain.
In fact, he comes very close to saying that the denial of oxygen, and the dispensing of a cocktail of 'end of life' drugs (which suppress the breathing, to allow a comfortable exit) is tantamount to euthanasia, on a large scale.

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I agree that both Sweden and the UK have got it wrong when it came to their elderly. We 'saved' the NHS by shipping them out into the care sector, then rolled out DNR notices without proper consent being given and failed to allow doctors to visit homes. Then there are the deaths that have occurred not from Covid but from under treatment of other conditions.
Although he presents calmly and confidently he is a academic nursing lecturer hence his knowledge on the appropriateness or not of administering palliative cocktails or not administering oxygen in a care home setting. Surely it is a leap to say this was deliberate rather than simple incompetency?
I don't think the jury can be out on Sweden just yet despite his attempted take down which I found unbalanced compared to other more qualified commentators who don't cherry pick their data to prove the point that he wants to prove - that if we don't all close down we are sacrificing elderly lives.
Also why show the picture of US crowds partying? You could equally show BLM marches or beach goers but perhaps that would not support his argument .
 
NicoleC1971 said:
I agree that both Sweden and the UK have got it wrong when it came to their elderly. We 'saved' the NHS by shipping them out into the care sector, then rolled out DNR notices without proper consent being given and failed to allow doctors to visit homes. Then there are the deaths that have occurred not from Covid but from under treatment of other conditions.
Although he presents calmly and confidently he is a academic nursing lecturer hence his knowledge on the appropriateness or not of administering palliative cocktails or not administering oxygen in a care home setting. Surely it is a leap to say this was deliberate rather than simple incompetency?
I don't think the jury can be out on Sweden just yet despite his attempted take down which I found unbalanced compared to other more qualified commentators who don't cherry pick their data to prove the point that he wants to prove - that if we don't all close down we are sacrificing elderly lives.
Also why show the picture of US crowds partying? You could equally show BLM marches or beach goers but perhaps that would not support his argument .
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I prefer actual information (and there is plenty of it in the video) rather than getting bogged down with criticising a 30 sec photo segment at the beginning of the video, or attempting undermine the presenter with accusations of bias. Fortunately, John Campbell's reputation is solid enough that your comments will make little impact.

One of the things I like about him is that he never forgets that each death is a suffering human being, leaving loved ones behind. I suppose that comes from a career spent treating people and training people in the situations that he speaks about with such experience.

So many people, even here, seem to think 1000s of deaths have no more significance than a number on a screen.
 
NicoleC1971 said:
I agree that both Sweden and the UK have got it wrong when it came to their elderly. We 'saved' the NHS by shipping them out into the care sector, then rolled out DNR notices without proper consent being given and failed to allow doctors to visit homes. Then there are the deaths that have occurred not from Covid but from under treatment of other conditions.
Although he presents calmly and confidently he is a academic nursing lecturer hence his knowledge on the appropriateness or not of administering palliative cocktails or not administering oxygen in a care home setting. Surely it is a leap to say this was deliberate rather than simple incompetency?
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Can't speak for other care homes but the one my mother is in with dementia was very thorough in the way it dealt with the lockdown. We were informed very early on that GP's would no longer be visiting unless a matter of urgency because the GP's themselves knew that they would be potential carriers. We were also asked to complete an Advanced Care Plan with our wishes for mum if Covid got into the home. Fortunately mum years ago had done a Power of Attorney and her wishes with regard to illness and health are clear to see.

As for Dr John I think Brunneria just about covers it!! ;)
 
lucylocket61 said:
The r rate has been the same for weeks. I can only conclude that decisions being made by the government now are based on the economy, not health.
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If R is less than 1 the virus will eventually go away, R doesn't have to keep decreasing, although if it does the virus will go away more quickly. Even if you are braking very gently, as long as you are not accelerating your car will eventually stop. Also the R number becomes pretty meaningless when there are only a few cases.
 
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