are you ready to be .. heartbroken

[Anonymous]

Oh well, I had my much awaited consultant appointment this morning and I couldn't be more deflated.

When I was first diagnosed they sent me in to the hospital to meet the consultant but he was busy so I met a young lady who upset me almost instantly by suggesting I was type 2 because I was obese (I was about 13 stone and 5.6").

Today, 8 years later nearly, I went back and met the same lady - except she is a consultant now. I had quite a long meeting with her today and took in all my numbers, diet etc. The nurses took some blood (4.7 - which gave them a shock) and blood pressure, urine etc - all excellent.
I explained my weight loss, my meds, how I'd changed my diet and she seemed to be listening and then wham!

"you need to eat 50% carbs per day. You shouldn't eat this much fat. By eating this much protein you are damaging your liver"

then

"diabetes is a progressive disease and your cells are dying all the time, so you're unlikely to stay off insulin if you do stop using it."

I showed her my cholesterol results which my doctor said were amazing and she said "your LDL is a bit high (it's 2.2) though the ratio to HDL is good. I suspect that's going up because of all the fat you're consuming".

I didn't want an argument - I wanted a plan to come off insulin, an acknowledgement that my numbers were healthy. I tried to explain that eating more carbs would be very bad for me and she said that she couldn't recommend my diet and she couldn't force me to take insulin.

It was all very awkward - am I some sort of freak who doesn't listen to highly trained NHS advice and instead prefers to self-diagnose through an internet forum? Or am I, instead, the only person in the building that day who understands what improves my health?

She has training, gives talks to Diabetes groups and yet, when presented with my numbers, still suggests that I'd be better off eating 50% carbs and trying to control that with lots of insulin. I have a follow up appointment in 4 months but it was clear that I could follow this diet for 4 years and she'd still stick to her advice.

I feel abandoned by the whole experience. I did queue and book a repeat appointment but can't honestly think I'll attend. What's the point?

 

[Paul1976]

Oh Jeez!! That's bloody awful!! :evil: I'm bloody angry just reading this so you must be so deflated right now!! When are they going to drop this whole 50% carb ****? Words fail me! :thumbdown:

 

[borofergie]

The point is Swim, that you can rub her professionally inept nose in it. It won't help you much, but it might make her feel bad about her lack of expertise, and might help the low-carb warrior who happens to have the misfortune for wander into her clinic.

I'm getting tired of the NHS apologists who try to pretend that most of us are getting good advice when, in fact, most of us are actively discouraged from pursuing a diet that, with a high degree of certainty, will mitigate all of the possible complications of diabetes.

I've met you. I know how much soul-searching you've done before going down the LCHF(ish) path. The results have paid off, and you are an inspiration to all of us. Don't be discouraged by someone who obviously isn't fit to practice medecine.

 

[librarising]

diabetes is a progressive disease

Sadly, this appears to be a self-fulfilling mantra, that these people see everyday, and feel justified in telling you and every other diabetic they meet.

See, despite eating 50 % healthy carbs you couldn't 'beat' your diabetes. Now things are more serious. I told you. You're simply better off than if you'd been following all that dangerous low-carbing you were considering.

You couldn't make it up (fast becoming my favourite phrase.)

Geoff

 

[WhitbyJet]

swimmer2 - I feel for you.
It is coming up to 6 years since I changed to a low carb diet. I did so out of sheer desperation, I was very ill from complications and side effects from medication and uncontrolled diabetes. I really had nothing to lose, I am very lucky, my husband is Swedish, his family urged me to eat low carb/Paleo.
My consultant at the time said he would wash his hands of me, said 'Judith, forget this cranky diet, if you insist, there are quicker and gentler ways of committing suicide you know'.
I had enough, everything my doctors recommended made me ill, eg CKD plus hyperkalaemia yet they prescribed Irbesartan which increases potassium levels, 1 week after faihfully swallowing that trash I was in the ICU, irregular heartbeat and various other symptoms of excess potassium. Then another consultant, knowing I had CKD stage 3 told me to increase Metformin to 2500mg (yes, you read correctly, 2500mg) a day, plus max Gliclazide, I was close to death and its no exaggeration, with lactic acidosis. I should not have been prescribed Metformin, a safe drug alright with many benefits, but not for someone with reduced kidney function.
So, yes it was high time to take the "risk" and take matters in my own hands and do something different - my low carb journey began, and today I am medication free, my blood pressure, cholesterol, trigs, Hb1ac, all perfect, my electrolytes all perfect, my CKD gone from stage 3 to stage 2 and it has kept stable for the past 3 years now. Neuropathy almost gone, same with retinopathy, stopped in its tracks.

I have a new consultant, he is using me as example, new doctors and nurses are amazed, they cannot understand how I have managed to turn my life around, they smile and say I am like a new woman, and I am, they are right.

I was met with fierce resistance, just like you swimmer, but won in the end, we have the results to show the doubters. Now nobody would dream of talking me out of what I am doing, my consultant is full of admiration, says I dont need him any more, from a care level of 4 I have gone to a care level of 1.

Keep up the good work, I am sure you will not regret it.

All the best

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all - you are a very supportive bunch and I do appreciate it. I am planning to write to my doctor and ask that I deal with the GP Surgery only from now on. They don't claim to be knowledgeable but they do at least listen.

 

[Defren]

Thanks all - you are a very supportive bunch and I do appreciate it. I am planning to write to my doctor and ask that I deal with the GP Surgery only from now on. They don't claim to be knowledgeable but they do at least listen.

Simon, I am so bl**dy angry I could smack that woman myself. I can't believe she would lower herself to give the "advice" she has. It only proves to me that toeing the party line is more important that a human beings well being, so much for the Hippocratic oath!!

Chin up, you know what works for you, keep doing that and leave that stupid woman to keep passing along her medicine of death!

 

[IanD]

I don't think I have met anyone that pig-headed, but the hospital consultants I take a blind friend to run close. The people I deal with listen.

But I haven't heard [ yet ??? ] from the dietitians who spoke at the Hounslow meeting.

 

[Unbeliever]

Its all about finding someone who will listen isn't it? It doesn't really matter whether they are a consulant or a nurse we all need a "diabetes buddy". Someone we can rust who recognises that we want to take responsibility for our own diabetes and have a perfect right to do so. Someone wo recognises that we are all different and that he NHS certainly does not have all the answers.

It takes hard work and persistence bu if successful makes all the diffference. Such a pity that it has to be such a hard slog.

 

[Grazer]

That's such a ****** meeting Swimmer. The trouble is that few people nowadays learn by original research it seems. So your young lady doctor you originally met simply believed what she had been taught. Now she's a consultant, she simy tells you that as something that must be true and now undoubtedly tells the same to young doctors who then become consultants and so it goes on. They can't believe that simple patients just may, by empirical testing, have found a better way. They are, largely, too arrogant as a group to believe otherwise. I prefer the few, like my old doctor, who accept and admit there knowledge as a GP in specialist areas is limited and just suport and help us to find our own way if it seems to work.

 

[xyzzy]

Swimmer you have done bloody marvellous and you are an inspiration to many of us. A meeting like that can really get to you but I'd concentrate on building a good relationship with your GP especially if he's willing to listen. Use today's experience to show these people how **** wrong they are. Don't let them get to you.

 

[Dillinger]

Swimmer; this is the world we live in. Don't be disheartened when people behave the way we expect them to behave.

Always go to the appointments so that you get your bloods done so that you can monitor your successes. You just have to develop the ability to nod and say 'ok' when they say stupid things. The mighty Fergus was told by his consultant that he no longer had diabetes when he got his HbA1c below 5.0 (as I remember).

Take a stand where necessary; testing, refusing statins (should you wish to) and so on, but pick your fights otherwise you'll get worn down. Politely decline dietician appointments but always make sure you know what the full array of blood tests are.

If you always gave people the same directions to your house and people always got lost you'd have to be pretty thick to not eventually realise your directions were wrong. Not here though; all those diabetics develop complications even though we have told them how to manage things. Except for those non compliant ones who ignore our advice. But they're obviously not proper diabetics because they don't have complications...

Best

Dillinger

 

[louisewomble]

WHitbyjet - that's a wonderful inspirational story!

Swimmer - I'd trust the routhe WJ went down before your consultants!

Go with your instincts!

 

[hallii]

In gerneral my surgery and DSN are very supportive, I get good treatment and I am happy with them.

There are, however, two areas of contention, one is strips, I don't get any not even one box as per NICE.
The other is diet, I am supposed to eat the complex carbs diet we know doen't work.

I once mentioned my lowish carb diet and was told it was wrong, it wouldn't / couldn't work etc. This was desite my HbA1c being around 5.3%.

Now, I never mention it, I pretend I eat lots of complex carbs and that my BGs, despite not being able to test ( Ido really, I buy my own strips) is how they are because of the NHS diet. I wonder if some patient or another has been told "look, it works for this patient, it will work for you"?

just take it easy, smile, nod your head and go with the flow. Then do exactly what you have been doing, it works for you and me!

H

 

[desidiabulum]

I can entirely appreciate why all our low- or moderate-carb heroes feel it's not worth the frustration and aggro of confrontation and active disagreement with consultants, and that the best route is to smile, nod and ignore, or even not to meet the dietician at all. I would be the last person to criticise this. But this does mean that the thousands trooping through the clinics, reading the posters, talking to the dieticians, are left to their fate (as swimmer overheard in the waiting room). You are all an inspiration to us on the forum, but how can we get your message and examples to the poor sods in the waiting rooms?

 

[Anonymous]

I understand what you're saying , but I'm not a very confrontational person - at least not without a beer in me. Should I hire the village hall and hold a diabetes support group? would the local clinic take my advert? would anybody come?

 

[IanD]

Make friends with your pharmacist - they have time to chat, unlike nurses & GPs (& consultants.)

You may be able to put up a notice in the library. I emailed my dietitian & was invited on the X-PERT course as an example of good control - then to speak at the support group. I've had no further feed back, but I did not go to the latest meeting.

 

[xyzzy]

But this does mean that the thousands trooping through the clinics, reading the posters, talking to the dieticians, are left to their fate (as swimmer overheard in the waiting room). You are all an inspiration to us on the forum, but how can we get your message and examples to the poor sods in the waiting rooms?

I think the answer to this is to actively evangelise YOUR successful method of doing diabetes to your gp and dsn. Don't be afraid to tell them how you have achieved your great result however you achieved it. Being very cynical gp practices are run to make a profit nowadays and will become even more business like under the governments reforms. Anything that can be shown that works and save the practice cash will be taken very seriously in my opinion.

 

[Paul_c]

Now, I never mention it, I pretend I eat lots of complex carbs and that my BGs, despite not being able to test ( Ido really, I buy my own strips) is how they are because of the NHS diet. I wonder if some patient or another has been told "look, it works for this patient, it will work for you"?

just take it easy, smile, nod your head and go with the flow. Then do exactly what you have been doing, it works for you and me!

H

please don't do that... it merely leads them to believe what they're saying is correct... so they carry on giving that same bad advice to others.

 

[Defren]

Now, I never mention it, I pretend I eat lots of complex carbs and that my BGs, despite not being able to test ( Ido really, I buy my own strips) is how they are because of the NHS diet. I wonder if some patient or another has been told "look, it works for this patient, it will work for you"?

just take it easy, smile, nod your head and go with the flow. Then do exactly what you have been doing, it works for you and me!

H

please don't do that... it merely leads them to believe what they're saying is correct... so they carry on giving that same bad advice to others.

+1