Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemic

[Elc1112]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Now there's a night you won't forget in a hurry, Cailesmark!

Sorry you found yourself in this situation. I haven't been arrested before, but I have been in a situation where I felt that my diabetes was not well handled by others. About a year ago I had my bag snatched from me while waiting for a taxi after a night out. Initially I was upset at losing y brand new bag but then remembered that all my stuff - insulin, BM, stuff for treating hypos etc - was in that bag. 

My friend was with me and we both walked to the police station to make a statement. My friend's purse had been in my bag so we were both without any money. I explained to the police officers that I was diabetic and had nothing on me and was worried my sugars were dropping. I asked for a lift home as I had no cash and lived five miles away. I was refused as they did not believe I was in need. It was an awful situation to be in and I did get very stressed about it at the time, which did not help my sugar levels at all! I had to walk to a friends house about three miles away in the end. By the time I got there my sugars were quite low and I felt awful. Looking back I could have done a number of things differently but you don't always think rationally when a) you have had a couple of drinks and b) when you're stressed. 

Having said all this, I have found the police to be incredibly helpful at other times. I think, like any profession, you can receive good or bad treatment so I certainly won't judge the entire police force based on one incident. 

As for your situation, I do think your diabetes should have been taken more seriously. If your sugars were that high then they should have been acted on more quickly. However, you did forget to take your meter etc when you went out so the police are not the only ones at fault here. 

While I understand you being frustrated an angry even at the treatment you received, it's not going to change the fact that you were drink in charge of a vehicle. You know that you shouldn't have put the keys in the ignition etc, but that's really not the issue here. 

The important thing is that you are ok now. Going forwards, don't leave your meter in the car! if this happens again, I would inject if you feel your sugars are high and you are vomitting. as for your treatment while on custody, you could try complaining but, in fairness, they did seek medical help for your sugars, although they did take their time about it. Might be worth a go though, not that it will change what happened to you. 

As for drinking, I am type 1 and I do enjoy a glass of wine or three every now and again. Drinking can play havoc with my sugar levels and does sometimes mean that I am less able to spot a hypo or a hyper. I can't say it stops me though! I just know I have to be careful when I am out and make sure my friends know what to look out for etc. 

Anyway, I am going to stop waffling now. I hope you get things sorted and good luck with the license etc. 

Take care,
Em

Ps excuse the typos. Small keys, big thumbs and moving train = bad combination!

 

[Ambersilva]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I know about the keys in the ignition regulation regarding being in charge of a car. My car does not have an ignition key! It recognises a the keyless fob in my pocket. If I am in the driver's seat I can only start the car by stamping on the footbrake and pressing a button. If I am sitting in any other seat I cannot possibly reach the brake to enable me to start the car even though the key fob is in close proximity to me. So, how do the Police treat that in the event of a dispute about me being in charge of the car?

 

[borofergie]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I know about the keys in the ignition regulation regarding being in charge of a car. My car does not have an ignition key! It recognises a the keyless fob in my pocket. If I am in the driver's seat I can only start the car by stamping on the footbrake and pressing a button. If I am sitting in any other seat I cannot possibly reach the brake to enable me to start the car even though the key fob is in close proximity to me. So, how do the Police treat that in the event of a dispute about me being in charge of the car?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought you only had to be inside the car, with the keys on your person to be regarded as "being in charge of the vehicle". Does it matter? If you drink alcohol and get into your car you're more or less asking to get your collar felt (as the OP demonstrated). Just don't take the risk. As the OP found out, they're likely to nick you and ask questions later.

There is no need for the prosecution to prove that a person was likely to drive whilst unfit or over the limit. It is for the Defendant to prove that there is no prospect of using the vehicle.

It depends on the circumstances leading up to it. If somebody else had driven the vehicle, and has merely got out and left you in it, and you were not aware of this, you are not in charge. If, however, you had, by your own means got into the car you would have been in charge and remain in charge.

http://www.drinkdrivinglaw.co.uk/offenc ... lcohol.htm


The OP did a very silly thing (and will likely pay the penalty), however, it doesn't excuse the way that the police handled the situation. Do deny a diabetic access to medication is very, very foolhardy. If I was the OP then I'd be getting in touch with these guys: http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/

 

[jopar]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Mirf Well it's a hard story to believe I must admit..

Mod Edit (Pneu)

I've actually had DKA 21 years ago, I spent my pregnancy in and out of hospital, I probably spent more time in hospital being treated for DKA than I did at home... A very scary time because my BG's only had to hit 8mmol/l and this started off DKA and at the point it got to the stage of inducing vomiting I would be too weak to hold a conversation, let alone to verbally protest or kick/hit out at anything... And the swiftness of going from the start of DKA where I felt off, to landing in hospital was hours...

My husband is also a T1, and I've seen his levels rocket with an infection well into their 20's, yet not even a trace of ketones, so yes high blood glucose levels, but not life threatening or requiring emergency medical treatment, just monitoring and implication of sick days rules, to return them to their normal ranges.. When he's been like this, he's been fully functioning, been able to carry on working... Yes he didn't feel fully fettle, but nor was he moody or verbally aggressive ect! The only time he shows any verbal or physical aggression or as the paramedics say, combative behaviour is during a hypo, and yes it's been at the level where police back have had to be requested, to arrest and restrain him to enable paramedics to safely treat him! We've come very close but as yet, it's been avoided at the last minute... But the procedure has been explained, they will restrain him, if necessary by taking him to the ground, they will use the minimum force necessary, but level of force will be determined by resistance met, to cuff him and if necessary leg restraints...

Like your husband he will then be placed in a safe position, which is on the floor face down purely because instinct or should I say comfort, will ensure that you turn your head to the side, which keeps your airway open, prevents choking on vomit, and if you continue to struggle you can't fall off anything to injure yourself, After treatment, you will be left in position, restraints will be left on, until it's deemed that there's no threats of harm to anybody! At this point the police de-arrest him and remove restraints.

You said that your partner works in the security business, dealing with various police forces, I'm surprised that they haven't explained some of the protocols involved either at the time of arrest or during police custody...

If he found being put on 'suicide watch' humiliating due to having a police officer looking through the open toilet door while he relieved himself, wonder what he would have felt like being accompanied to A&E by a police officer who's cuffed to him! As while he's in custody, he will be treated with the same protocols as any other prisoner in police custody...

As to how he's going to be losing his licence, unfortunate if he really didn't have the intention to drive, but he won't be the first individual, ask Kris Marshall the actor, he was banned for 6 months last year, when he decided not to drive home from the train station after arriving back in Wells, so slept in his car! So perhaps under the circumstances you partner might be treated similar!

But it does seem that not only was he unaware of the full drink/drive law you just need to be in the car to be considered 'in charge' of it! But it also seems that he's not aware that every time he gets behind the wheel to drive, he needs to be taking a blood glucose reading to ensure his levels are safe to do so, they do advice not starting a journey if your blood glucose levels are below 5mmol/l and if they are to eat some carbs to ensure that you don't drop below the 4mmol/l legal requirement!

If he asks, his police officers friends/business contacts about police restraints protocol/methods, don't ask for a demo, as it can cause injuries as I found out! Yep my friend was in the Met for 25 years, and one day everybody thought it to be a good idea for him to do a demo, when he was explaining how restraining practices had evolved and why over the years! I almost sustained a broken wrist! As he demoed the twisting of the arm, and pulling the hand back onto the wrist! Apparently females are supposed to have very flexible wrists, apparently mine are worst than a man's! As we were all in work at the time, we did have a lot of explaining to do to our manager!

 

[Pneu]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

So to summarise..

OP forgot his meter (we have all done that).. and injected without testing (we have also probably all done that)... OP had an infection and was feeling generally unwell and still decided to consume a reasonable amount of alcohol without access to a test meter or any idea what his blood glucose was doing... (frankly not only bloody stupid but also put his own life at risk)...

OP arrested by police.. who I would have to agree seem to have not treated him the best in the world.. and further endanger his condition...

Yes the police are probably in the wrong and should have shown a greater duty of care.. however that does not excuse your partner from a duty of care to himself.. he has clearly put himself in that situation and made wrong decisions.. forget your meter fine... test without injecting.. fair enough.. then to go on drinking.. very very silly.. there are examples of type 1's on this forum who have DIED from exactly that.. just be glad he wasn't one of them. If the police hadn't of turned up he could be dead in his car now...

 

[mish1953]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

There is some ACPO guidence ( note guidence ) on Diabetes and custody , released this year . ACPO is the Association of Chief Police Officers .

Have a look at .. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...policing/safer-detention-guidance?view=Binary if you re interested . Section 3.3.4 DEALING WITH DIABETES

This is recent and it applies to Police Custody Suites ( nicks ) as opposed to Police 'stations' or offices which have no cells .

Most if not all custody doctors are provided by private agencies , ie contracted out , some custody suites are run by private agencies , or civilian staff , only the custody sgt is required to be a copper .

The Police are not medical, they are not the social work dept , they are not taxis, they are there to prevent and detect crime .

Take it to the IPCC, Independant Police Complaints Commission , they are not the police and they will investigate .

Please let us know the result , it would be interesting .

Slainte
Hamish

 

[jopar]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Mish

That's an interesting indeed..

I had wondered what they would do about my insulin pump if arrested...

Because in one way, it could be used as a weapon and in various ways you can easily self-harm with it! due to the insulin content and tubing!

So in theory, should be classed as an item that should be removed, but on the other hand it's a medical item!

But must admit, I've no wish to find out whether my local nick, is using the latest updated Custody procedures or not! I hope to keep my law breaking activities to that of getting fined for speeding many years ago!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Going back to my previous post, where I mention what has been explained to me by my local officers, when they've been requested as backup for the paramedics, when hubby been hypo..

They always ask "Has he been Drinking"!

And they always look surprised when I explain that he rarely drinks nowadays. and haven't had a drink in months!

I know why the paramedics ask, as if he had a Glucogen Jab isn't going to work! But never fathomed out why the police always ask!

 

[AMBrennan]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I had wondered what they would do about my insulin pump if arrested...

Presumably what it says in the document:

Where the detainee has an insulin infusion pump in situ, this should be left as it is and advice from a healthcare professional sought urgently.

 

[sinbad]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Why didn't you carry lucazade or glucose Tabs with you every sensible person who takes insulin does ,I would not go anywere without my hipflask ( Lucazade) and my glocose Tabs

 

[AMBrennan]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Hyperglycaemia = high BG

 

[elainechi]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

just a couple of points i would like to make.............
i didn.t know you could be arrested drunk in charge of a car if your in the car...!!!!! i.ve often gone back to my car to get an overnight bag or coat if staying at friends and walking home

its useful to carry glcutabs in a carrier as a key fob...cheap enough and have medialert and diabetes written clearly on them......

lastly 2 women made remarks that my daughter was drunk when in fact having a hypo and in the queue buying a coke to stop it....she is 12 but looks older....it was 4pm after school and she was in school uniform...i have to say her friends stood up to them and told them what was happening but apparently you don.t get diabetes when your young!!!!!! xx

 

[tigger]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

That sounds a horrible situation. Yes it doesn't sound like the OP handled the initial situation wonderfully but alcohol and high blood sugar do not help rational thinking. The police response sounds disproportionate in the extreme although it is hard to comment without seeing both sides.

I imagine 28 would make you feel horrible. I've had 22 and felt like I didn't have the energy to move and that was without alcohol or infections. I don't imagine the alcohol helped any either. I do find that everyone tends to generalise on the basis of their own experience but that's the nature of on-line forums. Everyone does have different physical reactions to hypers and hypos which is why it is so hard for other people to spot them on symptoms alone (and don't even start me on faulty meters....). For example I had a very bad hypo in which my dh who at that time was too scared to use a glucagon called 999 and when I came round I was in tears and had been that way for a while. Partly it was due to embarrasment but it was also one of my hypo reactions. The ambulance ladies found this very odd and rather better than the more common response which is apparently violence and aggression. The point is everyone is different.

A piece of advice I was given by a consultant in terms of driving and hypos although applicable here was to draw up to the side of the road and move into the passenger seat so it is obvious that you are not intending to drive, take the key out etc.

I hope the OP gets this resolved.

 

[Stew the red]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I can't get my head around some of these replys, firstly it is perfectly acceptable for a type 1 diabetic to drink. I cannot believe the way in which the police acted however I can understand it to a certain degree, had they allowed you to inject and the dose been to high by mistake you could have become another stat. Just out of interest how long have you been diabetic? I've been type 1 for nearly 30 years and when I am high or lowi can guess at just how much by, my advice in that situation would be small doses until you feel a lttle better

 

[bibbyjane]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I was horrified at the experience you had received but not surprised. It has always worried/cornered me what the police would do if found Hypo in the street never thought of a Hyperglycaemic.

I have been a diabetic type 1 for over 40 years, Insulin has been around for just under 100 years not long really. It is concerning that Police are not aware of the signs of either a Hypo or Hyper,how many diabetics do we have in this country?

It all so concerns me that fellow diabetic's have been so harsh, they must leave very restricted lives. Being so judgemental neither helps any diabetics who are in trouble in a public place.

Now who can tell me there bg when ill? For those who are living prefect lives must be not problem. I ask are they human, cos' mine mind is like a sieve sometimes I can put a cup of tea in the fridge.

Now where is this all leading you may wonder?

To this we must remember we are human and understand others, while I mm writing this you see my side of a comment/story therefore remember that none thing is black or white for us, look at what the press has done lately.

Informed you I am a long standing diabetic until now not informed you I have other problems that are not related to my diabetes . Also mention that cough and cold normal silly little virus's can and DO affect our control whether you are good at controlling you bg levels or not, These virus can just appear in the car at work or at play, and how many of you have had a cloudy mind due to these little terror's. well my other problems leading to operations and this does make your control unstable for a while, my mind is not affected by this it called a situation of recovery and care if I had no one who loves me so much and notices things in my situated you could have been the same. Here is a scenario for you. So you have no one and need to go out shopping your on the way to a full recovery but a little unstable with your bg levels, some times you can be very high then very low since you operation. you meet up with friends who ask you for a drink no alcohol mention, you decided to have a drink not seen them for a while and things lead to one more then you feel unwell so look for you test kit and insulin can't find it you know this is serious. Make your excuse and go back to the car. Now remember that you have had an operation and just walking will use more energy especially as you can't do much just yet , you have one to many for you and none thing to eat. Open the car door and the police come over just the same situation.You have been silly but is it right that you are not listen to you need help but put into a cell and left. In your situation panicking makes it worse. Or you have had an operations on the way to a full recovery but a cold and having different bg thought the day, the rest is the same should this happen to you.

We need to educate non diabetes.
1.That we can have sweets but need to be careful and the same with drink
2. That when we say we need help we do need it the colleague needed to speak with the transport police get some help if they refused,even if it means taking you to hospital because of the smell of alcohol which can happen when you are high.
3. This is important thing let your colleagues know and friends more who know can help you.
4. Not to let your condition control you and its not a disease.
5.Educate the police and GP (FMC) and employers.
6.Our in take of food has to be control and a little and often so we have the best diet.
7.Instead of having FMC lets have doctors that have been in worked in the emergency area these doctors can have more experience than GP (FMC) not their fault but not every GP has a diabetic clinic or nurse this is a relative new idea/

I hope you will let us know the out come to your situation, this is a way you can educate the police and others involved in your situation.

By the way I don't drink much don't smoke or go out much. Does this mean when I do have a hypo or hyper in public the full force of the law should befall me if I have forgotten anything, have also forgotten to take my injection on 3 or 4 occasions in the 43 years this is less than 0.1 of a percentage.

Please think before you judge others and I' mm no do good either just hate unfairness of any kind. What we say and how we say this effects others and sets in the mind of our condition.

Hope you do read this sorry it is so long have just voice a lot of concerns.

Thank you for read, would love to hear what you think but remember we all have the right to have an opinion and have always been advised that if you are going to say some thing bad also think of yourself in the a similar situations and if writing or saying some thing of something good as well.

 

[BaliRob]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

You clearly have not read all of the posts especially as to Police awareness and Govt guidelines.

The fellow Diabetics were, for the most part, very objective and sensible in their opinions.

If you have joined today just to knock the Police I suggest you move to another site - you are
just scaremongering.

 

[s10vsb]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Has anybody experienced a similar event?
I had a lunch meeting some two weeks ago.
I consumed more alcohol than expected.
I also am not a big drinker, since being diagnosed type 1 in 19888.
This meeting was in central London, Covent garden to be precise.
I had also forgotten my test kit which I had left in my car at a tube car park in west London.
I had with me my fast acting insulin, but did not have my long acting insulin or blood pressure/cholesterol tablets which were at the hotel room I had booked into about twenty minutes, drive from the tube station car park.

On realising that I had drunk far to much to even consider driving, also feeling ill and wanting to get back to my hotel, my friend and me headed back on the tube to our separate destinations.

My intention was to go back to my car, collect my blood test kit and my hotel room keys and get a taxi back to the hotel.
During the tube journey back I became more and more unwell, showing classic symptoms of Hyperglycaemia. At South Kensington station I had to leave the tube and had to vomit on the station. At this point my friend had to leave me to carry on my journey alone. I was experiencing more and more Hyperglycaemic symptoms however not having my test kit with me I did not want to administer any fast acting insulin, for obvious reasons. I eventually arrived at my tube station and headed for the car.
On getting into the car i placed the keys into the ignition as in order to phone a taxi i needed to charge my mobile, I did not as far as I am aware turn on the engine, although the radio was on. I must also add at this point that I also intended to purchase
a ticket for the car park as the one I had ran out at midnight.
The next thing I recollect is a police officer screaming through my partially open window that i should get out the car NOW!!
I got out of the car and he proceeded to give me a roadside breath test informing me that he suspected me of being in charge of a vehicle whilst being above the prescribed legal limit of alcohol. Whilst this was going on I tried, to no avail, to explain the circumstances and that their had been no intention by me to drive.
This fell on deaf ears, and subsequent to a positive breath test I was handcuffed and arrested for the above offence.
At this point I asked if the officer could bring with him my test kit out of the glove compartment as I was a diabetic and concerned that I was suffering from Hyperglycaemia. His response was that they would deal with that at the station, at this point I was bundled into a police car and taken to the station.
At the station I was searched, as I constantly mentioned my diabetes and my Hyperglycaemia, there response was that we will deal with that through the FME (DOCTOR) but first we need to test you on the machine for alcohol levels book you in and also test you for drugs. I continued to mention my diabetes to no avail. I was arrested at about 22:00 hours and this process lasted until about 23:00 hours. all the way through I was told that the doctor was on his way. The custody Sgt then informed me that as I was over the prescribed limit I would be placed in a cell for the night until they deemed me fit to interview, I again requested my test kit and fast acting insulin, the reply was that the officer had not brought my test kit and I could not have my insulin until a doctor arrived as they did not know what I could be injecting?
They then man handled me into a cell. I continued to protest by pressing the door bell, eventually after about 6 operations of the bell they told me the doctor would be delayed and if they thought it was a medical emergency they would call an ambulance. I said it was and I was now feeling very unwell and Hyperglycaemic, They disagreed and implied that it was because of the alcohol, wait for the doctor. They then switched off the alarm bell. I continued to protest and tried to get their attention by kicking the door, only to be ignored. With no other option to me as far as I could see and knowing there was CCTV covering the cell, I took of my shirt, wrapped it around my neck and screamed out of frustration that this was the only way to get a response to my concerns.
At this point 3 officers burst through the door, at this point I through the shirt into the corner of the cell, at this point the officers grappled me to the floor face down, handcuffed me behind my back and strapping my legs together from the thighs down to the ankles. During this restraint I suffered a blow to my right ear and side of my head also what I can only describe as a severe dead leg. After about half an our trussed up like a chicken I was released having had to promise that I would behave?
I was then moved to another cell as they were expecting allot more people in on a fri night. The new cell also had a toilet in it because they were sick of me asking to g to the toilet. The cell door was kept open with an officer posted at the door because I was now classed as a suicide risk?
The doctor eventually arrived at 0300 Hrs. He could not have been less interested. He tested my blood sugar level after asking some basic questions. IT WAS 28 MMOLs. He suggested that because he did not have access to any of my long acting insulin, that he would let me give myself 8 units of my fast acting and that would be sufficient until the next doctor would be in at around 09:00 later that morning. I administered, under his observation 8 units of fast acting insulin, he then let the police return me to the cell and left.
The doctor that turned up at 09:00 tested my blood and it was then at 12 MMOLs and he suggested that I have something to eat, and administer my insulin as I normally would. I said that considering what I had been through I was not interested in eating. His response was to say so you are refusing food, advised the police officers to return me to my cell and left. I eventually was interviewed re the offence at about 11:30. Charged and released at about 13:30 Hrs.
IS THERE ANY WONDER THAT DIABETICS DIE IN CUSTODY!!!!! Any comments or experiences of a similar vein.

I'm type 1, arrested 3 wks ago for DND, I told them I was diabetic, they had my pen and locked in a cell without dextrose or checking by BS....I've put a post on here too...read my story. xx

 

[BaliRob]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Give it a rest - you will find yourself in the minority of opinion and deservedly too.

 

[weeezer]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

Shocking. The treatment of these 2 people (the poster above balirob & the original OP) whilst in police custody. Also shocking, some of the attitudes on here. How would you feel if for whatever reason, out of your control, your tools for diabetes management were kept from you by the police, and you knew your bgl was dangerously high? The poor chap was only trying to get attention, the police need educating on the urgency that is required when dealing with insulin dependant diabetics. sounds like he was well on the way to DKA, serious stuff.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[BaliRob]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

The penultimate sentence is disgraceful and has been the basis of my comments throughout.

 

[GraceK]

Re: Arrested for drunk in charge when actually Hyperglycaemi

I thought we'd laid this thread to rest long ago? :think: