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Artificial sweeteners, for and against

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by ButtterflyLady, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. graj0

    graj0 · Guest

    I haven't made any claims, I asked a question. I referred to my memory of the time and I gave a perfectly good reference, better than a URL that could change or disappear. If one was writing a dissertation for a UK university, it is a preferred method of referring to references.
     
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  2. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Master
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    Realy?? (Quote from the first link in the closing line on the first point in "favour" of aspartame.) "animal insulins are no longer even available."
    What else did they get wrong on this site...? ;)

    Here's a the link you require to back up what I already knew... http://www.diabetes.co.uk/insulin/insulin-types.html
     
    #42 Jaylee, Oct 19, 2015 at 6:45 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2015
  3. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You asked a loaded/rhetorical question, which obviously reflected your belief that aspartame was wrongly approved by the FDA for political reasons. I disagree that you supported your statement with an appropriate form of reference but, whatever. My point is that if you want to discuss the efficacy/safety of drugs/products with me, then URLs to scientific literature (or articles that include them) is what I accept as adequate evidence. Personal memories, anecdotes and conspiracy theories aren't enough, when there is scientific info available. If you don't want to discuss these things with me, that's fine too. I don't mind either way.
     
  4. Celeriac

    Celeriac Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I quit sweeteners in 2012, my husband was convinced that Diet Pepsi and Diet Coke gave me mood swings.

    When animals are tested with substances they are always given megadoses. I'm not sure that's really helpful, it might be better to have the typical dose guzzled by a teenager. If the rat develops tumours on that, then it doesn't augur well.

    The problem with any kind of food additive, is that they only have to prove they won't kill you immediately. No-one does long term studies on safety or interaction, we are all the lab rats.

    I try to limit my exposure to any additives but some could be harmful, others not. I just don't know. I won't use them but if other people want to, why not ?
     
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  5. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If people find that they feel better without them then that's great. It's possible that one day I could decide to try cutting them out to see if I feel better, and if my experiment showed that I felt better, then it would be reasonable to keep avoiding them. But what I don't like is claims like the ones I quoted in my OP that aren't supported by scientific evidence. I think it's reasonable for a person to say that stopping using something made them feel better, or to cite a study that made a finding, but to say something like "splenda causes depression" without citing any studies isn't. If people can look at the studies and assess how reliable they are likely to be, then they can decide if they find the study convincing. There are a lot of websites and books that make claims about the dangers of artificial sweeteners without an honest discussion of the scientific evidence.

    Something like artificial sweeteners is a bit different to drugs and supplements, because it's an optional substance, ie a food product. When people are making claims about drugs or supplements then IMO it's very important to assess the scientific evidence. But a discussion about artificial sweeteners can be used as an example of the different methods we can use to see if evidence for a claim is strong or weak.
     
  6. Celeriac

    Celeriac Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think the Internet is to blame, by the time medical studies have been chewed over by bloggers and then more bloggers things end up being urban myth before they even get posted on forums. I attended schools in three countries and have to say that British education, historically, hasn't taught kids to challenge information outside of a lab and people don't reference.
     
  7. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think schools anywhere do well enough at teaching kids how and why to challenge what they hear. Some teachers "get it" but I think most don't. If people don't reference, then all we can do is keep asking them to, and letting them know that their claim won't be considered, let alone accepted, if they don't try to back it up somehow. Sadly, people make money selling unproven products to people who don't understand how to question things.
     
  8. andcol

    andcol I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member
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    You change the world one whisper at a time! That is often far better than all the scientific evidence when people aren't listening. Hearts and Minds and being holier than thou just puts peoples backs up. If people present an urban myth then be a myth buster.

    Oh by the way, the world is flat and you can't disprove it as you do not know what coordinate system I am using. How many scientific "proofs" have we over turned. Science proves models and not necessarily real life. I know as I am a mathematician and build mathematical models all the time to try and mimic real life. You have to understand the limit of the model and not claim too much from it.

    A simple example of this is a model of an atmosphere around a cylindrical world spinning along its long axis... Why ? Well it has limitations but the maths are as simple as anything and it presents the behaviour around the equator of a spherical world. How far you can move from the equator and still predict varies on the starting conditions and the length of time you are modelling.

    So all I am saying is do not demand scientific proof. Read it all, present counter arguments and persuade otherwise you will stifle the debate.
     
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  9. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If people don't want to listen, that's their problem, not mine. I will keep learning from the work of scientists and they can keep wasting money on products that don't work, lol.
     
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  10. Mike D

    Mike D Type 2 · Expert

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  11. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing how a thread about sweeteners can cause so much discord.

    I'm glad we don't discuss politics on this forum
     
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  12. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's not discord, really. Just discussion about methods of finding knowledge. *Shrug*
     
  13. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Master
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    I fancied we were talking about "artificial sweeteners"... Maybe this thread should be moved to another section???
     
  14. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Master
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    Love the brilliant quirky humour here, bearing in mind the thread subject ;) & staying on topic!

    How can any money be wasted by the non-subscribers to artificial sweeteners..
     
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  15. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If you read the OP, it was about asking for claims about artificial sweeteners to be backed up by something other than hearsay.
     
  16. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If you read a few of the posts above, the discussion was about the knowledge used to back up decisions to use or not use products.

    When people use a product that hasn't been shown to work, but they believe it works, this is the placebo effect.

    When people avoid a product that hasn't been shown to be harmful, but they believe it is harmful, this is the nocebo effect.
     
  17. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Master
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    What's it called if you simply just don't like the taste...?
     
  18. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If that's the person's reason for not using them then they're not likely to make claims about supposed dangers.
     
  19. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Master
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    Wouldn't the "supposed dangers" less likely occur in the percentage of people that find AS unpalatable...?

    Edit. Scrub my last question.. I can Google it & find out. ;)
     
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    #59 Jaylee, Oct 20, 2015 at 10:19 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2015
  20. ButtterflyLady

    ButtterflyLady Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Who knows?
     
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