1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Type 2 Asking for a friend... phnarr phnarr

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Sarbak, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    If someone has put their T2D into remission (or is well controlled... whatever we want to call it - back in the normal range), would I be right in assuming that the occasional naughty day - like once every few months on special occasions - which caused big fat spikes, wouldn't do any lasting damage?

    :angelic:
     
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    18,401
    Likes Received:
    12,250
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Probably not lasting damage unless.....

    The beasts of food addictions are easily re-awakened and can lead to more and more frequent "naughty days".

    If you have perfect self control then you may be ok otherwise be very very careful indeed.

    We have seen many people have the "odd" cheat day which have led to complete disaster once the slippery slope has begun.

    You'll hopefully find that sneaky keto habits will creep up on you and you won;t want the "naughty stuff" any more and it won;t taste as good as it used to.

    I went to a swanky Michelin star restaurant last week for a birthday lunch (not mine but hubs). The bread there used to taste amazing so I had my first proper bread in 5 years.. certainly won't be doing that again.. it was decidedly meh!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,801
    Likes Received:
    7,015
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I think that's right.
    But don't come complaining with me if you friend manages to keep their hba1c well below prediabetic numbers with the occasional blow out and finds out they still have developed some health issue associated with diabetes 25 years from now.

    The thing is, I don't think there are numbers on this. We're talking decades of data of daily monitored blood sugars in people with non diabetic numbers almost all of the time. I don't think those people exist, let alone a decent study of a large group of them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,319
    Likes Received:
    11,505
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Tell yer friend. I don't claim to ever be the "good diabetic." I've survived some "Darwin preprortional awards.."
    The choice is your friend's regarding the "one night stand.."
    Take care of this friend of yours & don't let it become too much of a frequent occasion.

    In other words. If the "blowout" becomes (metaphorically.) a minute taken off a clock linked to a person's life in "Valhalla?" (Or where evah.)
    Don't let that "minute hand" be moving at a rate, it's a fan in the kitchen..;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    14,302
    Likes Received:
    8,226
    Trophy Points:
    298
    @Sarbak - Well we have no idea how your friend would react to a day of indulgence. Some find it easy to say "enough already", and others find it just redirects them onto a path that's difficult to divert from.

    There are many threads about it; often relating to the festive season, when many decide "it's one day". For some it is, and indeed, some find the experience disappointing, in that their memory of x, y or z food was more enjoyable than the real thing, and for others the one day becomes a week, month or several months.

    The only real answer to you or question would be "maybe, or maybe not", or "........ depends".
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I mean, at my heaviest I was nearly 24 stone... I definitely don't have perfect self control lol. Oh wait, we're talking about my friend... ahem...

    But, in all seriousness, yes this is a good and sensible warning and something I need to be very conscious off as I transition off of a weight loss diet into a rest of life way of eating. I can't (yet at least) imagine a life long WOE that doesn't involve the occasional 'treat'.

    I think things will become a lot clearer for me when I start testing my own body's reactions to foods and work out what's too worrying a trigger and what I can reasonably 'get away with'.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    lol ok, I won't.... to be honest, with how I've lived my life up until this point, I'll be incredibly grateful to even be alive in 25 years time :oops:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Did a happy sigh reading that. I love a good analogy :joyful:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Christmas Day will be the first test since May then - I WILL be having at least two roasters. But that's it - that's generally as exciting as my Christmas Day gets in terms of food. I don't drink and don't really do chocolate or any other pigging out. Just my mum's awesome goose fat roasters with turkey, sprouts and carrots.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. hh1

    hh1 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,218
    Likes Received:
    2,121
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I sympathise with your friend @Sarbak. Must admit though that I never did like a lot of the things others see as treats, most stuff like cakes and desserts are way too sweet but I do like those I make myself :smug::smug: But they're low-carb (even if too high in calories) and I don't go (too) mad. I can't think that a couple of roast potatoes is going to see you cooking and eating them every day, whereas an addiction to chocolate is easily rekindled in my experience. Only 90% for me now and that's just too rich to pig out on.
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    18,401
    Likes Received:
    12,250
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I was 23 stone so understand where you are coming from.. have finally overcome the bread addiction but it took years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    21,795
    Likes Received:
    35,046
    Trophy Points:
    298
    @Sarbak

    I was reading this thread and thinking of mentioning Xmas, but you got there first. :D

    Every year on the forum we get a certain cycle of events leading up to Xmas and then following on from it.
    It starts with excited discussions about Xmas food - planning menus, discussions on whether to stay on, or temporarily hop off the wagon.
    Then people start talking about what they actually did (or didn't eat) and whether it was worth the hikes in blood glucose.
    Some people stop testing 'cos its only once a year'
    Then there is the few days of Xmas when everything goes quiet(ish) expect for the people who Stuck To The Plan and are happy to confirm that things went well.
    Then the confessions start.
    And the horrified tales of how high blood glucose went.
    Then the determined commitment to new diet and exercise plans...

    and eventually, around April, or even the summer, you get people coming back saying 'Hey, remember me? I haven't posted since Xmas. I thought it would just be a mince pie and a roastie, but here I am 3/6 months later, still buying cake and eating it in one sitting. Help!'

    All of it is perfectly understandable, and perfectly normal. Human nature in all its variety.

    My feeling is that the trick is to understand yourself well enough (based on bitter past experience, not on hopeful Born Again diet wishful thinking) to know what is likely to happen to you. We all have different histories with food. Is 'just one mince pie' on Xmas Eve going to be just that, or is there a risk of 6 months of weight regain, worsening blood glucose and feeling of failure?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Nicole T

    Nicole T Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    639
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Purely as maths, I'd be inclined to look at it as putting a hold on the countdown for a ticking time bomb. Every day you're good, and keep yourself mostly in pre-diabetic to non-diabetic ranges, that clock stays stopped, and you bought yourself another day of your life before complications set in. On the days when you're naughty, you're letting that timer count down. If you're naughty one day a month, it'll take 30 years to hit the complications that might otherwise have caught up with you in a year. if you're naughty one day a week, it'll take 7.

    I'm sure, in reality, it doesn't work like that. Things are rarely so black and white in real life. Most likely, the clock is always running, and you're merely slowing it down on days when you're good and speeding it up on ones when you're not. Also, if you can keep your levels low, certain things, such as neuropathy, might improve. It may be possible to run the clock backwards, in respect of some complications.

    I'm budgeting for being on this planet for another 25 years or so. My goal with respect to diabetes is to get there without any serious complications. But deterioration on various fronts is pretty much inevitable. I think that's a reality that sets in once you pass 40.

    Of course if you hit very high figures, you can be in immediate danger. Certainly, 30+ and you're looking at an immediate risk. Possibly quite a bit lower than that. Unregulated, I believe my body starts peeing it out in the high teens. My HbA1c result suggests my average blood sugar was 12mmol/L prior to diagnosis, and that was with an addiction to Kit-Kats, Aldi fake Mars and Snickers bars, and big tubs of Celebrations.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    11,520
    Likes Received:
    22,617
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I'd risk it for a biscuit. :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Well, this is depressing, if true. So, are you saying that despite going from my highest (65) back down to 37 in the normal range within 4 months of diagnosis... and if I continue to manage my bg levels well going forward, I am still going to see diabetic complications? I mean, I understand that being diagnosed with T2D is a serious thing, but was I (am I) being foolish for thinking that maybe my hard work had undone the damage so long as I stick to my new and improved diet and lifestyle? If complications/deterioration is inevitable, are we all just fighting to delay the inevitable?
     
  16. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Don't panic. I'm just past the 40 mark and I get what Nicole is saying... Vividly. I had to get glasses this year, my hormones are going nuts, my hair is turning grey... Once you're past 40, there is just some stuff that naturally goes downhill. Kinda how life works, for the diabetics and non-diabetics of the world. ;) So you're not doomed with complications or anything... Just keep doing what you're doing and you'll eventually just need glasses because your eyes are slightly aging, not because of diabetic retinopathy and such.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ok, thanks @JoKalsbeek - as you can see from my pic, I'm already completely grey and embrace that with open arms. I have no problem with the inevitability of age related changes... perhaps I just misunderstood what @Nicole T was trying to say lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  18. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I have to be honest, I started turning grey at 29, but I didn't quit dyeing it until I was about 39... I'm embracing my inner sage older woman. (Or crazy cat lady.) I got a tattoo this weekend, so I'm still also embracing my inner rebellious 18-year-old, but hey, I don't have to keep a social distance within myself... ;)

    For what it's worth, if I hadn't gone low carb, I'd either be on insulin, or quite dead. I was in a very bad state indeed when I was diagnosed. Quality of life counts and that has improved too. But I have, without a doubt, added on years, if not decades, to my life-expectancy.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. lessci

    lessci Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    697
    Trophy Points:
    133
    but your "treats" could be something non food or if your moving onto a low(er) carb way of eating that fit into that. I must admit I'm no where near a perfect low carber and when I do fall of the wagon (usually bread, crisps or chocolate) I find it tough to get back on. But if I have low(er carb) food treats (cheese & pork scratchings are personal favorites) it's much easier to maintain control. I often drool over desserts when eating out, but on the odd occasion I get in and have one I end up sharing or giving it away as they're just to sweet. My taste buds have changed. Last Christmas I wasn't even tempted by Christmas pudding or cake.
     
  20. Sarbak

    Sarbak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Yeah, I totally agree - but I define "treats" as something that we know we shouldn't have, or at least very often. So, for me, planning a low carb WOE for the rest of my life, a treat would be... hmmm some crunchy tiger bread, or spaghetti bolognese from my favourite Italian or (drooling as I type) a piece of lemon drizzle cake. I never had much of a sweet tooth, so a life without biscuits, sweets, chocolate, ice cream, cakes (except occasional lemon drizzle), desserts generally, is no big deal. Even giving up rice, root veg and cereal is not a problem (except goose fat roasters on xmas day). But the bread.... sigh.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook