Been Burying My Head In The Sand

[Lily1042]

Hi All,

I need help. Diagnosed early this year and been burying my head in the sand. Have had a stressful year so far with work and family problems and this diagnosis has not taken any sort of priority. When I'm stressed I turn to food obviously the wrong kind of food so I now need to get my live back on track and get the numbers down. I have to go for more blood tests next week and I guess the numbers will be as bad if not worse than earlier in the year. Please where on earth do I start? This last week I have been managed to stick to 3 meals a day with no chocolate, biscuits, cake, ice cream etc which for me is a really big deal. I need help and advice to try and start a low carb journey so any ideas would be gratefully received.

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

That's a good start.

I assume you are Type 2 (because your comments are all about diet.) Do you take any meds or insulin?

I'd work on eliminating grains (including rice, wheat and oatmeal) and potatoes and tropical fruits (bananas, mango etc). You can phase this in steps if you prefer . I'd stock up on some low carb snacks (ie pork rinds, nuts without sugar) for when you absolutely have to have something (although it'd generally better to avoid snacks.) I found after the first few days, I didn't crave high carb food as much.

I found the app Carb Master, very helpful for tracking carbs once I started counting. (You can put your own recipes in as well it provides many foods.) Prior to that, I wrote down everything I ate and I still test and track my glucose levels with a blood meter. This tracking gives you information about which foods cause glucose level spikes and therefore avoid. You can test a particular food by testing right before you eat it and then 2 hours after. You should see a slight rise (2.0 or more is a spike, indicating you need to avoid that food.)

As I said in the other thread, I started with 80 carbs at first although I found after several weeks, I found I was eating under 50 (about 20-30 at currently.) You will find you will probably need to increase your fat intake (you don't need to eat really high fat if you don't want to) and your sodium intake, especially if you continue to reduce your carbs lower. Some people prefer to drastically lower their carbs immediately to a low level but a gradual decrease worked well for me.

BTW, if you take meds or insulin, you may find they will need to be lowered after a while if you eat low carb (another reason it's important to test.) Others here can tell you more about this (I haven't done either meds or insulin.) Type 2s who don't take meds or insulin don't usually need to worry about low levels.

Have you seen the welcome message from @daisy ?

 

[bulkbiker]

One peice of advice I can offer that should help is portion control, have smaller meals more frequently throughout the day but less each time if possible.

Eating more frequently for a Type 2 causes constant production of insulin which isn't really to be recommended in someone who probably already produces too much. I would rather recommend a reduced eating window whilst following a LCHF way of eating.

 

[Resurgam]

When taking Metformin I used to eat lunch and dinner, but when I gave up the tablets I found that my blood glucose went on rising through the morning if I did not eat, so now I eat early and late, most of the carbs being with my evening meal as they have more effect in the morning - I seem to need some, but can't cope with many. \it was fairly simple to work out the right method, and now I hardly need to test my blood, but it was very useful to start with.

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

For what I understand, hypos are not a concern and rare for Type 2s who don't take medication and/or insulin.

If a Type 2 diabetic does take medication and/or insulin when he/she starts low carb, the amount required will decrease and the medication and/or insulin will have to be adjusted to prevent hypos. (This is why I asked about whether the poster takes meds or insulin).

The issue with starting off quickly with very low levels of carbs is "keto flu" (not everyone experiences this).
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/keto/side-effects-of-ketogenic-diet.html

BTW most complex carbs spike most T2 diabetics - the amount of fibre in them isn't enough to prevent a spike. (There is some individual variation.) Testing with a meter will let a person know if they can tolerate a small amount of carbs - for example, I got a big spike with a small wholewheat bun of 17 carbs.

There is some debate about the frequency of meals. The traditional school of thought is frequent, small meals. However, Dr. Jason Fung and others have had a lot of success with intermittent fasting and fasting in lowering levels with Type 2 diabetics.

 

[Guzzler]

Well done on confronting this condition, it's never too late. And well done on making a great start by cutting down on the obvious baddies as a first step to improving your health by improving your diet.

 

[Lily1042]

That's a good start.

I assume you are Type 2 (because your comments are all about diet.) Do you take any meds or insulin?

I'd work on eliminating grains (including rice, wheat and oatmeal) and potatoes and tropical fruits (bananas, mango etc). You can phase this in steps if you prefer . I'd stock up on some low carb snacks (ie pork rinds, nuts without sugar) for when you absolutely have to have something (although it'd generally better to avoid snacks.) I found after the first few days, I didn't crave high carb food as much.

I found the app Carb Master, very helpful for tracking carbs once I started counting. (You can put your own recipes in as well it provides many foods.) Prior to that, I wrote down everything I ate and I still test and track my glucose levels with a blood meter. This tracking gives you information about which foods cause glucose level spikes and therefore avoid. You can test a particular food by testing right before you eat it and then 2 hours after. You should see a slight rise (2.0 or more is a spike, indicating you need to avoid that food.)

As I said in the other thread, I started with 80 carbs at first although I found after several weeks, I found I was eating under 50 (about 20-30 at currently.) You will find you will probably need to increase your fat intake (you don't need to eat really high fat if you don't want to) and your sodium intake, especially if you continue to reduce your carbs lower. Some people prefer to drastically lower their carbs immediately to a low level but a gradual decrease worked well for me.

BTW, if you take meds or insulin, you may find they will need to be lowered after a while if you eat low carb (another reason it's important to test.) Others here can tell you more about this (I haven't done either meds or insulin.) Type 2s who don't take meds or insulin don't usually need to worry about low levels.

Have you seen the welcome message from @daisy ?

That's a good start.

I assume you are Type 2 (because your comments are all about diet.) Do you take any meds or insulin?

I'd work on eliminating grains (including rice, wheat and oatmeal) and potatoes and tropical fruits (bananas, mango etc). You can phase this in steps if you prefer . I'd stock up on some low carb snacks (ie pork rinds, nuts without sugar) for when you absolutely have to have something (although it'd generally better to avoid snacks.) I found after the first few days, I didn't crave high carb food as much.

I found the app Carb Master, very helpful for tracking carbs once I started counting. (You can put your own recipes in as well it provides many foods.) Prior to that, I wrote down everything I ate and I still test and track my glucose levels with a blood meter. This tracking gives you information about which foods cause glucose level spikes and therefore avoid. You can test a particular food by testing right before you eat it and then 2 hours after. You should see a slight rise (2.0 or more is a spike, indicating you need to avoid that food.)

As I said in the other thread, I started with 80 carbs at first although I found after several weeks, I found I was eating under 50 (about 20-30 at currently.) You will find you will probably need to increase your fat intake (you don't need to eat really high fat if you don't want to) and your sodium intake, especially if you continue to reduce your carbs lower. Some people prefer to drastically lower their carbs immediately to a low level but a gradual decrease worked well for me.

BTW, if you take meds or insulin, you may find they will need to be lowered after a while if you eat low carb (another reason it's important to test.) Others here can tell you more about this (I haven't done either meds or insulin.) Type 2s who don't take meds or insulin don't usually need to worry about low levels.

Have you seen the welcome message from @daisy ?

Thank you for your replies. I am not on insulin was prescribed metformin but had very bad side effects with it so stopped that and am now taking just dapagliflozine. I would really like to try with diet alone but realize this is going to be a bit of a battle but I think I need to aim to go lchf. I will continue to keep off the obvious sugary stuff but is there anywhere I can find the carb content of food listed?

 

[Lily1042]

Eating more frequently for a Type 2 causes constant production of insulin which isn't really to be recommended in someone who probably already produces too much. I would rather recommend a reduced eating window whilst following a LCHF way of eating.

Thank you for your reply. I have to stick with 3 meals a day maximum because of work. From what I am reading I guess if I can eventually cut out breakfast that would greatly reduce my eating window and perhaps help. Great weight loss by the way! I wish I could do it too...

 

[bulkbiker]

Thank you for your reply. I have to stick with 3 meals a day maximum because of work. From what I am reading I guess if I can eventually cut out breakfast that would greatly reduce my eating window and perhaps help. Great weight loss by the way! I wish I could do it too...

Yes you certainly can.. It was one of the first things that I did and I happily credit Intermittent Fasting along with my very low carb diet with the results that I achieved. I wish you much success on your journey too.

 

[bulkbiker]

I would follow the advice of the type 2 diabetics on here,

Even though you seem very happy to contradict it?

 

[bulkbiker]

Thank you for your reply. I have to stick with 3 meals a day maximum because of work. From what I am reading I guess if I can eventually cut out breakfast that would greatly reduce my eating window and perhaps help. Great weight loss by the way! I wish I could do it too...

Hi Lily sorry just seen this was your first post so welcome to the forum! In with a bang..
In case you haven't seen the intro post from @daisy1 I'll tag her in here.

 

[Brunneria]

@Lily1042

Hi and welcome!
Believe me, switching to low carbing needn't be torture, and it needn't be stressful.
Oh, and you needn't go hungry either!

Regarding reducing your 'eating window' - yes, it can make a huge difference to us type 2s. But don't force it.
Many of us find that once we have been eating lower carb for a while (days, weeks, months, varies for each of us) we naturally find that our hunger levels change and we don't need to eat so often. In my case, I kept forgetting to eat breakfast. It took no will power whatsoever

If you are interested in the science stuff of how and why we should be keeping our blood glucose low and steady, then try
www.bloodsugar101.com
and if you want the nuts and bolts of how to eat low carb, then you can't do better than
www.dietdoctor.com
and this link gives a really quick intro
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/60-seconds

And just as a final comment:
we have members on this forum with several different types of diabetes (type 1, type 2, type 3c...) and each different type requires different handling. For example, type 1 diabetics can treat their high blood glucose with insulin, so eating a couple of slices of bread, or a bowl of cereal for breakfast is perfectly within their ability to control their blood glucose. Some type 2s are on insulin too, and can do the same. However, those of us who do not use insulin or strong drugs may choose to control their blood glucose by diet. In that situation it is very important that we know exactly how much impact those two slices of toast may have - and that requires a blood glucose meter, and an understanding of how to use it. Have you got a blood glucose meter? And are you prescribed (or buying) the test strips that go with it? Most type 2s are not given testing equipment on prescription.

 

[bulkbiker]

Where is the contradiction? On DIABETES UK own advice page it recommends type 2 diabetics eat frequent meals instead of large ones, they recommend eating complex carbs (Pulses beans vegatables), and lowering carb intake. They also recommend a LCHF diet which was recommended by you earliar. Me stating to lower your carbohydrate intake through portion control is in some way a contradiction of someone else stating that a LCHF diet is good? My advice on lower carbs is the first step. I have read what you said about not eating frequent meals and have learnt something from your advice, as I will now recommend that to my dad who is type 2, but the other advice I have given about eating healthier portions, looking at the eatwell plate, lowering carb intake is very much great advice, as she claims her blood sugars are high.

Advising someone with Type 2 ( which can also be called a carbohydrate intolerance) to eat carbohydrate would appear to be quite bad advice do you not think?
Diabetes UK gives this advice with the Eatwell Guide at its core. I would never advocate anyone follow the dietary advice in the Eatwell Guide if they have Type 2.
People with Type 2 have elevated blood sugar levels which are what can cause harm if left high. the best way to lower them is to cut back on carbs and cut back on meal frequency. This is the advice I would give anyone newly diagnosed with Type 2. From my own and many other forum members combined experience the faster you cut back on carb consumption the faster your blood sugars lower. By reducing the eating window (and thereby extending your fasting period) you are allowing your body to use up extra circulating glucose which also contributes to lowering blood sugar levels (a win-win situation).
Eating carbs and eating frequently achieves neither of those things hence my advice.

 

[Diakat]

@Dixon1995 just to clarify Diabetes UK is another organisation.

 

[Dixon1995]

Nowhere have I recommended eating more carbs, perhaps you should reread what I said, my first peice of advice has been about removing carbohydrates first by lowering portions of carbs almost completely from her diet, that would then ease into a LCHF diet if that is something she wishes to achieve, you cant just wake up tomorrow and go right no carbs for me, well at least I couldnt, I would get withdrawel. I am sorry if you found my advice to be contradictory, I have removed my comments regarding frequent meals, I am still learning too, I need to learn type 1 for myself and type 2 for family unwilling to themselves.

I have removed my posts incase they are contradictive and hinder rather than help, but from my first post I advocated removing carbs first by eating smaller portions

 

[bulkbiker]

Nowhere have I recommended eating more carbs, perhaps you should reread what I said, my first peice of advice has been about removing carbohydrates first by lowering portions of carbs almost completely from her diet, that would then ease into a LCHF diet if that is something she wishes to achieve, you cant just wake up tomorrow and go right no carbs for me, well at least I couldnt, I would get withdrawel. I am sorry if you found my advice to be contradictory, I have removed my comments regarding frequent meals, I am still learning too, I need to learn type 1 for myself and type 2 for family unwilling to themselves.

I have removed my posts incase they are contradictive and hinder rather than help, but from my first post I advocated removing carbs first by eating smaller portions

No need to remove anything... we all learn by debate and seeing other views.
There are however no essential carbs so it is possible (with an iron will) to remove almost all carbs. For a Type 1 I would certainly not recommend it because I don't know enough about the condition although there are quite a few very low carb Type 1's out there (typeonegrit facebook group for example). For a Type 2 there may be a risk of keto flu but once that has passed there shouldn't be too much of a problem (unless med are involved).

 

[Dr Snoddy]

I saw a diagnosis of Type 2 diabetes as a wake up call. Looking at the possible complications of poor control of blood glucose really scared me and gave me the impetus to change my lifestyle. After researching the options which you seem to be doing I decided that a low carb, medium healthy fat route was worth a go and one that might be sustainable in the long term. (Had been a life-long yo-yo dieter). I decided to base every meal around protein with very little carbohydrate and some fat for flavour and satiation. I eat 3 meals a day and have an afternoon snack. In the first 5 months I lost over 2 stone and my blood glucose levels normalised. They have remained in the normal range for the past 4 years. My weight has also been stable which suggests that I am finally doing something right! I occasionally lapse and have something really carby but do not enjoy or crave these foods as I once did. I don't see my way of eating as drastic, punitive or difficult to do just different from an over-reliance on carbs. So, very limited sources of sugar and starches! And I still eat a lot of food!!

 

[Chronicle_Cat]

Thank you for your replies. I am not on insulin was prescribed metformin but had very bad side effects with it so stopped that and am now taking just dapagliflozine. I would really like to try with diet alone but realize this is going to be a bit of a battle but I think I need to aim to go lchf. I will continue to keep off the obvious sugary stuff but is there anywhere I can find the carb content of food listed?

Since you are on a dapagliflozine, I'd lower carbs gradually to give your body time to adjust. A blood meter and testing is important as you want to ensure your glucose levels do not go too low (your med probably will need reduction at some point.) If you feel the symptoms of hypoglycemia, test immediately. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/Diabetes-and-Hypoglycaemia.html . (BTW, I checked, dapagliflozine rarely causes hypoglycaemia because it does not require the action of insulin according to the National Institute of Health but I feel it's best to know. I'm not a doctor.)

I'd initially test 6 -7 times a day (upon waking, before & after each meal and perhaps at bedtime.) Over time, some of these testings can be eliminated.

Some Type 2s have been able to lower or eliminate meds eventually with low carb eating. (In my thread, "Any Other Former Low Carb Skeptics?", I talk about my best friend's experiences - she is also a Type 2 who was on many meds who eats low carb.)


This site has lists of carbs in food (I use the phone app Carb Master to count carbs):
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/foods
I find the visual guides especially helpful. This site also has lots of good information, recipes and tips.

BTW, there is a bit of a difference in the terms for carbs in the UK and the USA (and Canada). If I understand correctly , Brits subtract the fibre from the carbs and call it "total carbs" (if I'm wrong, let me know), in the US and Canada, they use the term "net carbs" for this - in either case, **this is what you will be counting**. In US & Canada, "total carbs" means the amount of carbs without fibre subtracted.

Although you probably know this, apart from carbs, there are fruits which are high in sugar which diabetics need to avoid (in addition to carbs) . These are melons (canteloupe, honeydew melon, peaches, apricots, plums, pineapple, watermelon, bananas, mango, papayas and all dried fruit (including raisins.). Most of us avoid apples, pears and oranges as well (if you do have them, watch the quantity and eat with a protein.). Berries (raspberries, strawberries, blueberries are fine. All fruit juices have concentrated sugars and are even worse than solid fruit.

I hope this helps.

 

[Resurgam]

Do check carefully what part of the day is best for your meals I do early and late as that prevents bit swings in BG levels - having done low calorie diets in the past my metabolism can panic at the first sign of deprivation and then the liver starts pushing out glucose all morning, by mid afternoon I start to crash as insulin resistance (for me ) falls in the afternoon. If you can go without food for much of the day without seeing the rollercoaster graph, fine - but if you do, it is not an easy ride.

 

[Phoenix55]

Welcome @Lily1042 You have done really well to make a start, let this new way of eating settle and then make small changes as you feel you need to. When you are stressed the temptation is to think that you have to do it all at once, you don't, this is long haul. Take it one step at a time and it is more likely to become a way of life. Do you have and use a bg meter? If not then you are trying to hit a moving target blindfold. You have already cut out biscuits and cake but you may have a couple of squares of high percentage chocolate as a 'treat'. I keep mine in the fridge so that it melts in the mouth slowly. We all have to find our own way, you may find that by cutting out the sugars, high carb foods (potatoes, bread etc.) and some wheat flour you start to lose weight. I found that to be the best way, my body adapted, my skin did not sag and when I wanted to stop losing weight I just stepped up the fats in my food a little. So far I have kept the weight off for two years without any difficulty and I do not 'do' hungry. As for the appointment next week, it is too late to much difference to the results of an HbA1c, the most likely test that will be done, because that looks back over the last few weeks. You may be surprised how effective the changes you have made are being, so don't panic just keep on doing what you are doing and remember to smile.