Benefits of a low carb diet and taking less insulin

[dbr10]

No @dbr10,
I'm not overweight, nor have I gained any weight from injecting varying quantities of insulin to cover my carb intake.

That's good. I know of several type 1s who are.

 

[azure]

Yes it is. And this doesn't apply to type 1s then?

No, Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions.

It's a myth that 'insulin makes you fat' if you're Type 1, and a dangerous myth at that, as it causes some Type 1s to avoid injecting.

If you're Type 1 and eat giant meals of processed carbs and inject insulun to cover those meals, it's the food that will affect your weight not the insulin injected.

I have injected insulin for 23 years and still have a BMI of around 19. I've always eaten reasonable amounts of carbs and still have very good insulin sensitivity. Too few carbs can cause insulin resistance, which is one of a number of,reasons that I avoid eating too few.

 

[dbr10]

No, Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions.

It's a myth that 'insulin makes you fat' if you're Type 1, and a dangerous myth at that, as it causes some Type 1s to avoid injecting.

If you're Type 1 and eat giant meals of processed carbs and inject insulun to cover those meals, it's the food that will affect your weight not the insulin injected.

I have injected insulin for 23 years and still have a BMI of around 19.

Isn't insulin the fat storage hormone?

 

[azure]

Isn't insulin the fat storage hormone?

Yes,,but that's a gross simplification of the process.

 

[dbr10]

Yes,,but that's a gross simplification of the process.

I see.

 

[dbr10]

It's a myth that 'insulin makes you fat' if you're Type 1, and a dangerous myth at that, as it causes some Type 1s to avoid injecting.

I can't see how they might arrive at a decision to stop injecting. Would certainly be irrational; but, without first hand experience, I cant really judge the thinking behind it.

 

[Oldvatr]

This is not the case for us T1's @dbr10. It's important not to blur lines between T1 and T2.

I am a T2D, and never been on insulin myself, but I do read most threads on this forum, and I read articles and research reports. It is true that T1D do not suffer from muscle IR in the way that I do, but there is research that shows that T1D can suffer an IR effect when eating high levels of fat (so called pizza effect) and the effect of this is to delay the response to a meal such that any bolus is adversly affected, and not so effective in covering the meal. Also protein can give a significantly delayed rise on bgl too at a later time than the bolus effectiveness period, so can get missed. Some T1D report having to split their bolus to cover a high fat meal.

To answer the OP, I am an engineer, and to me the body is a system, with feedback paths and delay loops, and the use of a human outside the loop, as it were, injecting insulin is actually quite a hit and miss affair if there is no direct feedback capability (i.e CGM or metered pump), So T1D is not a perfect control system, and hence will oscillate with peaks and troughs naturally as a meal digests. These can be harmful in the long term, and so lowering the stimulus (carbs and protein) is an effective means of reducing these perturbations and giving better stability, (IMHO)

 

[azure]

As someone who has injected insulin for more than 20 years and experimented with every kind of diet, I can tell you that it's 'swings and roundabouts'. Any advantages of eating very low carb are offset by other disadvantages.

Yes, the body isn't a machine, but it's response to carbs is easier to predict than its response to protein or fat.

This is a Type 1 thread. Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions. Reading isn't the same as experiencing the realities of Type 1 day in day out.

 

[Oldvatr]

I can't see how they might arrive at a decision to stop injecting. Would certainly be irrational; but, without first hand experience, I cant really judge the thinking behind it.

I suggest googling Insulbulemia. It happens, but I am not going to give details here since it is a dangerous practice,

 

[azure]

That's good. I know of several type 1s who are.

But that would be either to do with what they ate, or other hormonal reasons NOT injecting insulin.

 

[GrantGam]

I am a T2D, and never been on insulin myself, but I do read most threads on this forum, and I read articles and research reports. It is true that T1D do not suffer from muscle IR in the way that I do, but there is research that shows that T1D can suffer an IR effect when eating high levels of fat (so called pizza effect) and the effect of this is to delay the response to a meal such that any bolus is adversly affected, and not so effective in covering the meal. Also protein can give a significantly delayed rise on bgl too at a later time than the bolus effectiveness period, so can get missed. Some T1D report having to split their bolus to cover a high fat meal.

To answer the OP, I am an engineer, and to me the body is a system, with feedback psths and delay loops, and the use of a human outside the loop, as it were, injecting insulin is actually quite a hit and miss affair if there is no direct feedback capability (i.e CGM or metered pump), So T1D is not a perfect control system, and hence will oscillate with peaks and troughs naturally as a meal digests. These can be harmful in the long term, and so lowering the stimulus (carbs and protein) is an effective means of reducing these perturbations and giving better stability, (IMHO)

You're right about the pizza effect, it's something I suffer from. However, the temporary IR from the 'pizza effect' is absolutely caused by the fat content of the meal, not the amount of injected insulin. That is the point I'm stressing and the point that @dbr10 doesn't understand. We're not talking about fat and it's impact on IR though.

Varying insulin doses in T1D to match carbs does not cause IR nor does insulin lead to weight gain. I'm an ideal weight T1 who is testament to the fact.

T1's are usually overweight because of the same reasons that non-diabetics are. Insulin is just the scape-goat in many instances.

 

[Ashley13]

Just to confirm - increased insulin in the body will make ANY person gain weight, whether they are type 1, type 2 or non diabetic. Insulin is what transfers blood glucose to be stored as fat in the body. The higher amount of insulin in the body = higher amount of fat stored. Obviously everyone has their own metabolic rate, body type, exercise regime etc but it is a fact that the more insulin you take, without changing any other contributing factors, you will then gain weight. Type 1's can also have resistance to insulin over time, there are many type 1's who have had to increase insulin doses for the same meals they have always eaten, and this is due to them becoming more resistant to the insulin they are taking.

As a type 1, I have found that a moderately low carb/low gi diet works best for me. I keep breakfast below 10g and lunch and dinner below 30-40g carbs. This is by no means low carb in terms of Bernstein but it still reduces margin for error and prevents the tiredness/slump that I would get after a high carb meal.

Hope this helps the original poster

 

[ickihun]

I can only speak from experience.
My type1 best friend has only insulin injections to help with her missing insulin.
Type2s have tablets, exercise and failing those insulin injections, especially if their pancreas has burnt out from over use.
Both can start having IR problems if....... their liver needs to kick out more glucose to compensate for the insulin kicked out by the pancreas or injected too much.
IR does occur if too much insulin is injected. I'm living proof.
I was on the wrong insulin regime. Mixed m3. (70basal/30bolus) I only needed less basal. I'm now 69basal and 60bolus. My IR was worse on too much basal.
However, I'm a type2.

 

[Oldvatr]

Just to confirm - increased insulin in the body will make ANY person gain weight, whether they are type 1, type 2 or non diabetic. Insulin is what transfers blood glucose to be stored as fat in the body. The higher amount of insulin in the body = higher amount of fat stored. Obviously everyone has their own metabolic rate, body type, exercise regime etc but it is a fact that the more insulin you take, without changing any other contributing factors, you will then gain weight. Type 1's can also have resistance to insulin over time, there are many type 1's who have had to increase insulin doses for the same meals they have always eaten, and this is due to them becoming more resistant to the insulin they are taking.

As a type 1, I have found that a moderately low carb/low gi diet works best for me. I keep breakfast below 10g and lunch and dinner below 30-40g carbs. This is by no means low carb in terms of Bernstein but it still reduces margin for error and prevents the tiredness/slump that I would get after a high carb meal.

Hope this helps the original poster

May I butt in and add that this was discussed at length here on the forum
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/does-insulin-cause-weight-gain.2457/

 

[Kristin251]

I eat vlc and take very low doses of insulin and only see positive advantages.

However, there are foods that require more insulin and make me more resistant and if I ate them often I would gain weight. This has to do with the FOOD, not the additional insulin. I was dx'd at 50 years old, 3 years ago and before I started taking insulin, those same foods would have made me fat, and did.
25 years ago I started Atkins induction and never looked back. I lost all extra weight and felt incredible. Every time I've added carbs back in, pre DX and after, i e gained weight. Obviously I don't process them well. Not to mention the aches, pains, fatigue etc.

ALL carbs make me gain weight. If I were to eat carbs and inject accordingly I would gain but it wouldn't be from insulin, it would be from carbs.

 

[azure]

May I butt in and add that this was discussed at length here on the forum
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/does-insulin-cause-weight-gain.2457/

I prefer this post from the very knowledgable @tim2000s :

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...on-a-30g-carb-diet.104639/page-2#post-1207220

Insulin does NOT cause weight gain in Type 1s, and I concur with Tim that this myth makes me want to tear my hair out.

@Ashley13 Please have a read of the above post too

 

[Kristin251]

Just to add, some people thrive on a keto diet and feel better than ever. Some people NEED carbs to feel good. I am not one of those people. Carbs make me feel like junk. That being said, my husband could NEVER eat like me. He's tried, he lost so much weight, muscle mass and he was exhausted. Different people require different macronutrients in different amounts. He eats very healthy but he does require more carbs than me. ( he's not diabetic)

I can eat all the fat I want and not gain an ounce but a piece of bread goes right to my waist. Hubby will gain when he over eats fat, not carbs.

So finding your balance of macros to feel like you're running on all cylinders and managing bs is the key.

When I was first dx'd I was grossly, and I mean grossly underweight. I started insulin and gained my much needed 25#'s back and the weight gain stopped right there. Insulin kept ( and keeps) me alive. That being said, I didn't gain fat, I gained my lost muscle almost like a miracle as I was a skeleton.

Fear not the insulin, fear the wrong foods. Luckily for me I was dx'd later in life so I knew which foods made me gain so I don't eat them and I e been the exact same weight for 25 years minus the undiagnosed type 1 blip.

All That being said, a type 1 CAN eat carbs but if it's not the right fuel for them they will gain. But if cabs are the right fuel, and fat is not a keto diet is t right for them either. Delicate balance.

 

[Oldvatr]

I prefer this post from the very knowledgable, Tim200s:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...on-a-30g-carb-diet.104639/page-2#post-1207220

Insulin does NOT cause weight gain in Type 1s, and I concur with Tim that this myth makes me want to tear my hair out.

@Ashley13 Please have a read of the above post too

I agree that insulin is not adding weight directly, but it is the enabler. Insulin also tells the muscles to store glucose, which is the main way that insulin lowers bgl. I am in similar predicament in that my oral meds stimulate insulin from the pancreas, and it is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. This is why I like the LC diet - it reduces my need for medication. But yes, if there is high levels of glucose from a meal then it needs appropriate insulin to deal with it, and if insufficient insulin then the bgl remains high until burnt off by exercise, or converted into fat by neolipogenesis. So if storage exceeds useage then weight gets put on, Insulin does not cause weight gain, but it enables it, It is the storage hormone.

This is the take from Joslin Clinic
http://www.joslin.org/info/why_did_i_gain_weight_when_i_started_taking_insulin.html

And from the Mayo Clinic
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/in-depth/insulin-and-weight-gain/art-20047836

And another study from the archive
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16776747

 

[azure]

That Joslin link is saying what I'm saying - namely, insulin does NOT make Type 1s put on weight.

The Mayo link talks about "taking in more calories than you need" - which, again , is what I'm saying.

Your final,study is looking at weight gain after improved control. That's not what we're talking about. Obviously running high sugars will 'help' a Type 1 lose weight or maintain a lower weight, then improving control will allow what's eaten to be used. That's exactly what the Joslin page is saying.

Your situation as a Type 2 is different but the OP is Type 1 and my comments are related to Type 1.

 

[Oldvatr]

That Joslin link is saying what I'm saying - namely, insulin does NOT make Type 1s put on weight.

The Mayo link talks about "taking in more calories than you need" - which, again , is what I'm saying.

Your final,study is looking at weight gain after improved control. That's not what we're talking about. Obviously running high sugars will 'help' a Type 1 lose weight or maintain a lower weight, then improving control will allow what's eaten to be used. That's exactly what the Joslin page is saying.

Your situation as a Type 2 is different but the OP is Type 1 and my comments are related to Type 1.

If you had read my post properly then you would see that we are basically in agreement on that. What I am saying which seems to be in conflict with you and Tim is that T1D's are reporting putting on weight when on insulin, as evidenced by posters in the forum that I linked to. Are you saying because you and Tim do not put on weight then the same must apply to all T1D's. I say that insulin is required for storing glucose in tissue, regardless of how the insulin enters the blood (exogenous or inherent). The processes are the same in terms of storage of glucose for both of us, with a possible exception that I can suffer Insulin Resistance, but T1D do not. Ergo, both can put on weight, and both can benefit from a low carb diet.