Calories and pub menus

[Jo_the_boat]

Here's an interesting one.

Larger pub chains will have to include calorie count on non pre-packed food and drink from early April.
Pubs are not for it, unsurprisingly, as it will a) be more work and b) put people off ordering high calorie meals.

What about carbs too?? Now wouldn't that would really be a health benefit?
Answers on a beer mat.......

 

[Rokaab]

What about carbs too?? Now wouldn't that would really be a health benefit?

For diabetics who carb count most definitely yes, for the rest of the population (which will be a much larger amount than those who do) though it would probably mean nothing.

 

[Outlier]

I think it's easier to avoid carbs than count calories, especially with meals someone else has prepared (if it's a sauce or a dressing, there'll be sugar and starch in it) so maybe that's the thinking. Although I suspect that unless one is a nutrition geek or a diabetic, the idea of counting carbs being useful hasn't really entered general consciousness. I can see why caterers are unenthusiastic, though, as meals with carbs and calories are delicious, and appeal much more to the wider public.

 

[Geordie_P]

I'd rather they left the pubs alone and forced breweries and distilleries to put nutrition info on alcoholic drinks. Japanese drinks have this, and it's really eye-opening. Two very similar cans of drink can differ wildly. Something like rum or brandy can be very low-carb or very high carb, and there isn't much way to tell if it's unlabelled. For those who drink beer of course, nutrition info would be even more helpful.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

For diabetics who carb count most definitely yes, for the rest of the population (which will be a much larger amount than those who do) though it would probably mean nothing.

Then they perhaps need educating about the appalling effects of excess glucose on metabolic health.
It should be part of an overall revolution in the nutritional education (in the west).
Have you seen the latest obesity / overweight figures? They are frankly horrific.
Part of the reason why so many people died during the pandemic was their dreadful metabolic health. (presumably you saw that obesity was one of the comorbidities?).
The food supply industry needs a drastic shake up. And not just for T2 diabetics who have become aware of their metabolic problems through their condition.

 

[In Response]

I would rather visit an independent pub/cafe/restaurant who has the flexibility to adjust their menu according to what is seasonally available locally than be restricted to what the pub chain menu tells them they must serve and what portion sizes. The latter are often pre-packaged and just sent out to the pubs with no support for the local community and lots of food miles as well as limited chance for variations due to dietary limitations.
The small independent places are not required to provide calorific value and I support them in that.

 

[NicoleC1971]

The US do this and it doesn't seem to have cured their obesity! People that sell fattening food will find ways to minimise the cal count but I think the carbs or cals counting discussion misses the point about what actually makes people fat and/or metabolically ill. It isn't that we don't know that chips or luscious desserts are fattening so much as that we crave the highly engineered combinations of carbs and fat and the food industry both creates the demand for those foods then satisfies it.
Chile has put a black dot on these foods that are both fattening and very much linked to metabolic illness including obesity. Perhaps that is better than traffic lights or calorie counts on menus.
Putting calorie counts on things just allows the calories in/calories out myth to persist which allows the government and Big Food to peddle the idea that if only we did more exercise, kids did more pe etc. we would not have an obesity/metabolic disease problem.
A greater focus at grass roots on quality of food, not quantity, is needed. I think government could help by simplifying food labels given that any type 1 needing to know carb content for dosing reasons, can do so with a smart phone or good guestimate if eating in a non chain cafe or restaurant.

 

[MrsA2]

The food supply industry needs a drastic shake up.

Highly unlikely as carbs are the most profitable items in their arsenal, especially when Highly processed.
Carbs tend to be cheap to produce (relatively) and the largest item in a dish that can still carry a high selling price.
Getting the food industry to reduce (or report) carbs will render them unprofitable, cost millions of jobs and taxes etc.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

Highly unlikely as carbs are the most profitable items in their arsenal, especially when Highly processed.
Carbs tend to be cheap to produce (relatively) and the largest item in a dish that can still carry a high selling price.
Getting the food industry to reduce (or report) carbs will render them unprofitable, cost millions of jobs and taxes etc.

That's a very negative attitude. Jobs and taxes could be created by producing decent food that's not killing us.

Old ideas do change, thank goodness. The protocols for dealing with a heart-attack patient for example. They used to keep the patient flat and still for six weeks or so, which actually proved the worst thing to do. Now they get people up and about as soon as possible. Countless thousands of lives have been saved. The man who first proposed the change was called a heretic, and was even Nazi-saluted when he went onto wards.
Then there's smoking. Fifty years ago it wasn't a problem - until it was.
Things do change.

 

[zand]

The problem with all of this is it isn't starting at the right place. Focusing on calories and sugar isn't going to improve health. I was counting calories and cutting out desserts and walking a couple of miles most days for years. I got ever fatter, and more and more ill.

It's easy to watch the TV and wonder how a certain nation can be hoodwinked by the lies its leader is telling them. But isn't that what our government/s have done/is doing to us? The majority of people believe that fat is the enemy and sugar is naughty but nice. Eat less, move more yadayadayada. Well the NHS says so, so it must be right! And yes there's some truth in it, exercise IS good for us and if someone continually consumes more than their body can burn then they will gain weight. But that's not all of the story. Adding a little truth to the mix just confuses the issue and blinds us to seeing the full picture.

The first change that needs making is for 'healthy eating' guidelines to change. We have been told for so long that dietary fat is bad that we believe it...until like mine, our bodies prove the 'facts' to be wrong. Fat is necessary for life. The low fat message is so strong that people fill up with carbs, not just sugar. Then people feel guilty and like failures just for feeling hungry all the time. It's the diet that's causing the hunger. Obese people are not all weak willed gluttons, they have been misled until they give up trying.

The message that needs to go out there is that natural fats are good. Highly processed seed oils and trans fats are bad. Carbs are addictive. This has naff all to do with calories on menus which is just another trick to keep us eating the carbs.

 

[Jo_the_boat]

The problem with all of this is it isn't starting at the right place. Focusing on calories and sugar isn't going to improve health. I was counting calories and cutting out desserts and walking a couple of miles most days for years. I got ever fatter, and more and more ill.

It's easy to watch the TV and wonder how a certain nation can be hoodwinked by the lies its leader is telling them. But isn't that what our government/s have done/is doing to us? The majority of people believe that fat is the enemy and sugar is naughty but nice. Eat less, move more yadayadayada. Well the NHS says so, so it must be right! And yes there's some truth in it, exercise IS good for us and if someone continually consumes more than their body can burn then they will gain weight. But that's not all of the story. Adding a little truth to the mix just confuses the issue and blinds us to seeing the full picture.

The first change that needs making is for 'healthy eating' guidelines to change. We have been told for so long that dietary fat is bad that we believe it...until like mine, our bodies prove the 'facts' to be wrong. Fat is necessary for life. The low fat message is so strong that people fill up with carbs, not just sugar. Then people feel guilty and like failures just for feeling hungry all the time. It's the diet that's causing the hunger. Obese people are not all weak willed gluttons, they have been misled until they give up trying.

The message that needs to go out there is that natural fats are good. Highly processed seed oils and trans fats are bad. Carbs are addictive. This has naff all to do with calories on menus which is just another trick to keep us eating the carbs.

Indeed.
The forces at play in the health / nutrition / diet market are huge, as exampled by this discussion of the role of animal source foods.
Bill Gates is 'trending' with his endorsement of synthetic meats (something that was actually mooted back in 1969 I believe). He and his foundation and other behemouths within the financial world are discussing things on a level so far above we ordinary mortals that it's almost another dimension.
We (you, me, everyone) are being manipulated by finance corporations and I don't see how we can change that. Just have a look at the forces at play in the link I've put up there.

 

[LamaLiam]

Then they perhaps need educating about the appalling effects of excess glucose on metabolic health.
It should be part of an overall revolution in the nutritional education (in the west).
Have you seen the latest obesity / overweight figures? They are frankly horrific.
Part of the reason why so many people died during the pandemic was their dreadful metabolic health. (presumably you saw that obesity was one of the comorbidities?).
The food supply industry needs a drastic shake up. And not just for T2 diabetics who have become aware of their metabolic problems through their condition.

Now I think this is missing a point, I think that pubs and alcohol are far worse than fast food chains, although the figures for food based health issues and obesity have caused many of issues, alcohol itself is poisonous, it’s toxic, and leads to mental health issues and over eating and many more bad decisions. If a world wide revolution is the answer then categorising alcohol into at least a cat B drug would be a good start. A huge study was done based on this and proved that if cigarettes and “booze” were created tomorrow they would NEVER be legalised as they are far more destructive than many Class A drugs.

Sorry for my rant, bad childhood alcoholism related experiences , previous alcohol additions myself and the death of both my parents due to liver disease and depression (alcohol induced) have led me to think that sugar tax and fat tax ideas are those rich spoilt idiotic children in parliament trying to make money out of every weakness.

Also How is the sugar tax fair on me as a type 1 when I’m treating a hypo……

 

[Sarah69]

I don’t see how adding calories to a menu helps. I have no clue about calories and I’m probably not the only one. However restaurant should avoid adding things like salt to food should be reduced. I don’t have salt on food and went out for lunch, I had scampi, chips and peas both the chips and the scampi had been salted with sea salt. I did eat quite a bit of the much but after a while all I could taste is the salt! I should have the choice not have it taken away from me.

 

[Daphne917]

The problem with all of this is it isn't starting at the right place. Focusing on calories and sugar isn't going to improve health. I was counting calories and cutting out desserts and walking a couple of miles most days for years. I got ever fatter, and more and more ill.

It's easy to watch the TV and wonder how a certain nation can be hoodwinked by the lies its leader is telling them. But isn't that what our government/s have done/is doing to us? The majority of people believe that fat is the enemy and sugar is naughty but nice. Eat less, move more yadayadayada. Well the NHS says so, so it must be right! And yes there's some truth in it, exercise IS good for us and if someone continually consumes more than their body can burn then they will gain weight. But that's not all of the story. Adding a little truth to the mix just confuses the issue and blinds us to seeing the full picture.

The first change that needs making is for 'healthy eating' guidelines to change. We have been told for so long that dietary fat is bad that we believe it...until like mine, our bodies prove the 'facts' to be wrong. Fat is necessary for life. The low fat message is so strong that people fill up with carbs, not just sugar. Then people feel guilty and like failures just for feeling hungry all the time. It's the diet that's causing the hunger. Obese people are not all weak willed gluttons, they have been misled until they give up trying.

The message that needs to go out there is that natural fats are good. Highly processed seed oils and trans fats are bad. Carbs are addictive. This has naff all to do with calories on menus which is just another trick to keep us eating the carbs.

Totally agree @zand. I spent years thinking I was eating healthily - going on very low cal diets and not losing weight but which sent my metabolism into severe starvation mode causing my body to begin to shut down and my doctor telling me to go home and have a good meal! I also used to eat what is considered by the NHS as healthy - low fat, low sugar, wholewheat bread, rice and pasta, plenty of fruit and jacket potatoes etc. Although I’m not ultra low carb over the years I have noticed the difference particularly re weight and glucose control.