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Prediabetes Can’t stay in ketosis

HSSS said:
But you don’t know which elimination had which effect on you as you did them simultaneously is my point. It may well be just cutting the fruit alone would have had the same effect. If you want to cut the meat that’s fine but if you only did it to reduce bgl and insulin then it may well have been unnecessary. Testing with a meter before and after eating these foods will show the effect they have individually on your body.
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the meter measures glucose, the holy grail is insulin, it seenms fructose is worse than sugar when it comes to fatty liver, my goal was keep insulin low as long as possible, since both spike insulin I cut them off. I am old I wanted a slightly faster approach, a month without meat and fruits did not kill me.
 
EllieM said:
Not sure whether this has relevance to T2s.
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It’s pretty much relevant to everyone but very much multifaceted and most likely only ever measurable by glucometer in those with glucose regulation problems. It’s complex but the nuts & bolts of it are - if your body needs to make up a balance of energy that is missing from fat or carbohydrate, then it will use protein to do so, and protein must be converted into glucose in order for this to happen.
 
Jim Lahey said:
It’s pretty much relevant to everyone but very much multifaceted and most likely only ever measurable by glucometer in those with glucose regulation problems. It’s complex but the nuts & bolts of it are - if your body needs to make up a balance of energy that is missing from fat or carbohydrate, then it will use protein to do so, and protein must be converted into glucose in order for this to happen.
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let me try to remember, I am not talking bout using protein for glucose as a necessity, what I saw in the video has to do with "usable" protein, in order to be used u need a complete set of 9 or 10 amino acids, in a whole egg for example 50% of the protein in that egg can match this sequence, the other 50% cannot and will become sugar. I hope I used the words right.
 
All I really know for sure on a practical level is that I used to have to negotiate with protein in order to blunt dawn phenomenon. Now that I’ve truly thrashed my diabetes, this is no longer a factor. Rather, it’s no longer measurable in the blood by way of glucometer. Most likely fasting insulin, which we cannot measure, does become slightly elevated in such a scenario.
 
With regard to insulin, is there any difference between the spike from meat and fish and the spikes from dairy protein?
 
zerocarbisbest said:
according to the videos, a rough idea, carbs raise 100%, protein 56%, fats 3% (btw vegetable oil are very damaging), and there are other things such as: when u eat a whole egg 50% of the protein is used to building cells, the other 50% becomes sugar, meats 30% is used to build cells the other 70% becomes sugar, plants protein are used 17%(including the whey protein shakes) and the other 83% becomes sugar. English is not my main language, if I type a thing or 2 wrongly, please search for videos and watch it correctly xD.
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Sorry but you are talking about gluconeogenesis which will lead to glucose production if it is required by the body.
If the body doesn't need the glucose then it shouldn't happen (or at least that's my understanding).
GNG is a demand driven process
 
Wilber123 said:
My Bg is 6.2 most mornings

But my weight has been going up so started a Keto low carb average 20/30 carbs pr day.
Went right into ketosis, list 4.5 lb the first week.
Nothing changed but dropped out of ketosis and now gained half a lb.
I’m confused.

Can anyone help please.
I use olive oil, butter, coconut oil. Good quality protein, fish chicken meat, no beans or pulses. No bread pasta rice potato.
I am on Antidepressants and tablet for Hiatus hernia.
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How are you measuring ketones?
 
zerocarbisbest said:
let me try to remember, I am not talking bout using protein for glucose as a necessity, what I saw in the video has to do with "usable" protein, in order to be used u need a complete set of 9 or 10 amino acids, in a whole egg for example 50% of the protein in that egg can match this sequence, the other 50% cannot and will become sugar. I hope I used the words right.
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So you’re saying the proteins that aren’t a complete set and directly used as protein/amino acids are converted automatically to glucose? Pretty sure that’s not how it works. Yes a human needs a full complement of amino acids but they don’t all have to come from one food in one sitting. Nor does it render protein unusable if that item isn’t a “full set”, nor automatically make it convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis which is, at the very least predominantly, demand driven. Ironic coming from vegan sources as plants rarely provide the full set and mostly have amino acids missing.
 
HSSS said:
So you’re saying the proteins that aren’t a complete set and directly used as protein/amino acids are converted automatically to glucose? Pretty sure that’s not how it works. Yes a human needs a full complement of amino acids but they don’t all have to come from one food in one sitting. Nor does it render protein unusable if that item isn’t a “full set”, nor automatically make it convert to glucose via gluconeogenesis which is, at the very least predominantly, demand driven. Ironic coming from vegan sources as plants rarely provide the full set and mostly have amino acids missing.
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not sure about directly or used by liver, I believe as you said used for gluconeogenesis, but if we can reduce these available incomplete amino acids, the body will have to use its stores other than the dietary we eat daily, I don't know how to explain things as a scientist or doctor would describing processes 100% accurately in detail, I got the gist of it while watching tons of videos, sorry for that.
 
""lets say u just eat a piece of healthy fish, since it raises insulin (which is what prevents body fat loss and main cause, beginning of disregulating the body'

Eating fish wont trigger insulin as fish has no sugar or carbs.
 
BigDaddy2 said:
""lets say u just eat a piece of healthy fish, since it raises insulin (which is what prevents body fat loss and main cause, beginning of disregulating the body'

Eating fish wont trigger insulin as fish has no sugar or carbs.
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not sure how well this website will be liked, but its a source if insulin index:

https://optimisingnutrition.com/food-insulin-index-2/amp/

some match sugar and carb % other foods behave differently, I believe they spike insulin and igf-1(i think) to tell the body to grow, and fish is even higher than red meat, check it out.
 
zerocarbisbest said:
not sure about directly or used by liver, I believe as you said used for gluconeogenesis, but if we can reduce these available incomplete amino acids, the body will have to use its stores other than the dietary we eat daily, I don't know how to explain things as a scientist or doctor would describing processes 100% accurately in detail, I got the gist of it while watching tons of videos, sorry for that.
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Sorry but what you’re saying is making no sense at all to me.

You appear to be saying unless proteins form a complete set of amino acids to be used for “protein purposes” then the rest get converted to glucose by gluconeogenesis and raise both blood glucose and in turn insulin. Is that what you are claiming?

Or that the non complete amino acids themselves directly raise insulin? In which case what about all those incomplete amino acids that are most plants? Surely if that’s the basis of your diet won’t they be raising levels?
 
Wilber123 said:
My Bg is 6.2 most mornings

But my weight has been going up so started a Keto low carb average 20/30 carbs pr day.
Went right into ketosis, list 4.5 lb the first week.
Nothing changed but dropped out of ketosis and now gained half a lb.
I’m confused.

Can anyone help please.
I use olive oil, butter, coconut oil. Good quality protein, fish chicken meat, no beans or pulses. No bread pasta rice potato.
I am on Antidepressants and tablet for Hiatus hernia.
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Going back to your post. Two weeks is nothing in terms of weight loss and keto. Initially loss is more water than fat. And then your body heals metabolically then the fat loss occurs. It’s not at all unusual to not lose much in the first few weeks and then go on to lose successfully. Unfortunately stories of huge initial losses make us all expect them and that’s simply not the case for us all. The more insulin resistant and messed up our hormonal and endocrine systems are the more it stands to reason it takes time.

How are you measuring the ketosis?

Other thoughts. Are you maintaining hydration (I didn’t lose unless well hydrated). Could any drinks, snacks etc have hidden carbs? Are cyclical hormones relevant to you? Many find where they are in the cycle effects weight loss and insulin resistance.
 
HSSS said:
Sorry but what you’re saying is making no sense at all to me.

You appear to be saying unless proteins form a complete set of amino acids to be used for “protein purposes” then the rest get converted to glucose by gluconeogenesis and raise both blood glucose and in turn insulin. Is that what you are claiming?

Or that the non complete amino acids themselves directly raise insulin? In which case what about all those incomplete amino acids that are most plants? Surely if that’s the basis of your diet won’t they be raising levels?
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let me try to find one of the videos where I saw it, maybe you can male better sense from there, althouh the guy is not a "real doctor" if you willing to watch at least gimme a few minutes.
 
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