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Can a non-type 2 get a hypo?

C

Cowboyjim

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I am sorry if this is a dumb question to ask but in conversation yesterday a friend described to me symptoms that seemed likely to be a hypo. She had not eaten a meal for several hours before and was in a stressful situation. She had to stop and wanted to lie down with blurred vision etc but did not faint. As far as she knows she is a non-diabetic but she feels that this might have been a hypo, she knows just the basics about DM so this is either a guess or someone there told her that.
It made me double-think, I know what the symptoms are having go close with meter readings below 4 and shimmery vision etc but I just assumed only diabetic-related illness would cause a hypo.
Thanks everyone.
 
My oldest son would hypo (come over weak and dizzy) as a child if he hadn't eaten for a while, gp told my wife just to make sure he has a snack between meals to avoid low blood glucose...particularly when he was very active, so the answer to your question Jim is YES.

btw, he does not have diabetes.
 
The popular opinion is that you can't get a hypo unless you are on medication and overdo it but who hasn't felt a bit faint or queasy at times when you haven't eaten for a while. I suspect everyone has.

Having said that I suspect that if you spoke about it with someone who actually had to have an ambulance attend then an argument would break out about the degree of hypoglycaemia followed by a snobs list.

My opinion is that you can certainly have some strange experiences when starved but you are unlikely to have a serious problem since your liver will keep you alive.
 
My non diabetic (stick thin - no justice) hubby sometimes does not eat all day until the evening and can get a bit funny, dizzy, grumpy etc - he often ends up with a migraine if he does this ..
 
Anyone can get a hypo. Even in diabetics hypos are only usually a symptom of medication (insulin or insulin production promoting medecine).

Would have thought diabetics in general (without medication) would be less prone to hypos than Jo(e) Pubic.

Lots of things could've caused the symptoms, blood pressure maybe.
 
I hadn't really thought this through before - most of my non-diabetic hypo symptoms have been caused by too much alcohol! :oops:

As BF says, anyone can get a hypo, diabetic or not. The liver would usually dump glucose/glycogen (?right word) if a non-diabetic was going hypo, but if you haven't eaten anything to re-stock the liver, by the end of the day there would be no stores left to dump: = hypo.

A bit simplistic - but does this make sense?

Viv 8)
 
ANYONE can hypo.
It can be caused by not eating for an exended period or some extreme diets or extreme exercise or medication or reactive hypoglycaemia and/or other factors
in diabeics using insulin or sulphonylureas, it's usually the medicine. Untreated diabetes causes HIGH blood glucose, not hypo.
It's that fact the healthcare professions often lose sight of.
I think anyone other than a diabetic on medication is not regarded as hypo unless their bg drops beloe 2 [I forget the exact number, but it's pretty low]
 
Thanks everyone - it has been a great help and not a little relief. And I learned some stuff!
It did cross my mind re the liver dump... and this is intriguing re the fasting we all discussed a while ago after that TV doc.
I said to her at the time about how I worry much less about hypos, I never had anything like this in my recollection priority to my diagnosis. And yes, I worry far more about the BG level being too high. That is much more insidious of course. AFAIK within reasonable limits this has much less obvious signs than it being too low. Apart from the doziness of course...
Maybe next time she will eat properly and regularly plus maybe I shall lend her one of my BP monitors...
 
It can be caused by not eating for an exended period
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That seems a bit unlikely - the body would start conserving glucose by switching to ketone metabolism to conserve glucose (which can be made in the liver from your ample protein stores aka muscles) for the brain.
 
This is a well-discussed subject! Hypoglycaemia simply refers to low blood sugar. Anyone can have low blood sugar. It's not something caused by diabetes. There is, however, a major difference between low blood sugar (with dizziness etc) through not eating enough food to match your energy demands (which anyone can get, diabetic or not) and the serious "Hypos" that a diabetic using insulin (or other insulin-promoting medications to a lesser extent) can get which can require hospitalisation if not attended to. Normal low blood sugar is usually self-rectifying as the liver releases glycogen to bump our blood sugar level back up. Basically, it's potentially a big deal for an insulin dependant diabetic or one on the more serious sugar-lowering drugs, but not otherwise
 
Quite a few people who subsequently develop diabetes ie pre diabetics have reactive hypogycaemia before they become diabetic.
There are several questions about this type of hypoglycaemia on this page (from an American dietitian and I can see some statements that might cause controversy :shh: )
Here is part of an answer to someone who has been diagnosed with reactive hypoglycaemia and told that it may be a precursor to T2.
At first this may sound like the opposite of diabetes because your body makes too much insulin. Hypoglycemia in fact is considered a pre-diabetic condition. It can be diagnosed by symptoms, but more accurately with a 4-hour fasting glucose tolerance test. The good news is simply eating six small meals and avoiding simple sugars can reverse your symptoms.

Reactive hypoglycemia is an over production of insulin in response to eating simple sugars. Some persons who experience hypoglycemia don't eat regular meals and may over eat simple sugars. I have worked with hypoglycemia patients who have a can of soda and a candy bar for lunch. The pancreas over responds by producing too much insulin which causes a rapid and sharp decrease in blood sugar, usually falling below fasting blood sugar levels (normal fasting blood glucose 70 - 90 milligrams per deciliter) 2 hours after the meal. If your blood sugar falls below 45 milligrams per deciliter, you may experience symptoms such as weakness, sweating, shaking or headache.

Unlike a diabetic who eats something sweet when having an insulin reaction, you should eat protein. Try eating cheese, luncheon meat or a hot dog with or without the bun. If you were to eat sweets to get your blood sugar back up, you would experience hypoglycemia again within another 2 hours or less.....................
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http://www.dietitian.com/hypoglyc.html
 
First, I agree with much that has been said in the thread. I certainly had hypos when I hadn't had anything to eat all day pre D (the symptoms were not necessarily different to those I get when I first went onto insulin; they are more subtle now) My OH often gets quite low when he's been chopping wood or pushing the lawnmower around our steep slopes. It's a sign that you need something to eat.
But there are people who suffer from hypoglycemia that is more frequent and may be more problematic.

In my original post I should perhaps have said 'Quite a few people who subsequently develop diabetes ie pre diabetics report that they have reactive hypogycaemia before they become diabetic .
You can find many such reports on this and other forums.

If you won't accept what a dietitian says how about this paper on reactive hypoglycaemia.
Lefebvre [54] on forty-seven patients demonstrated to suffer from reactive hypoglycemia (< 45 mg/100 ml)evidenced an exaggerated insulin response as the major abnormality explaining hypoglycemia, either in obese with impaired glucose tolerance or in isolated PRH. A characteristic pattern was when the release of insulin is sluggish and the insulin peak delayed withrespect to the peak value for blood glucose
While the most usual cause of an increased insulin response is most often assumed to be insulin resistance-related hyperinsulinemia [10, 54], there may be other mechanisms for hyperinsulinemia.
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http://jeanfrederic.brun.free.fr/postpr ... 0metab.pdf
Interestingly DR Brun is reported to have said that prediabetic hypoglycemia occurs late after the meal (more than 4 hours) while true reactive hypoglycemia (hypoglycemia at 2-3 hours) is “…on the opposite (lowered risk of diabetes) sorry lost the link it was from a blog and not direct.

And as the paper that the above quote came from describes there are many other causes. (including people who are very insulin sensitive; people who have lost a lot of weight (sometimes through surgery) and who have become quickly more insulin sensitive. There are disorders of glucose counter regulation . Then there really rare situations where a person has an insulinoma or neonatal hyperinsulinemia... sadly the latter may necessitate a total pancreatectomy)
The paper does stress that post prandial reactive hypoglycaemia is over diagnosed. .
The problem may be exacerbated by a diet containing lots of fast sugars and alcohol.
What is clear is that these episodes of hypoglycaemia, can for some people who are not on any glucose lowering levels be problematic and to quote from the paper again
a fall of blood glucose below the usual levels will result in rather uncomfortable symptoms (palpitation, tremor, sweating, dizziness, blurred vision) and in dangerous disturbances in reaction time in some usual tasks like driving a car or performing a
specific exercise
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Understand about re-active hyperglycaemia, but we were talking basics about hypos vs low blood sugar in the normal sense. I know other medical conditions can cause hypos. Mind you, a lot of research talks about "reported" hypos. A lot of new T2s on our forum "report" hypos when their blood sugar levels start to get out of double figures! They aren't suffering hypos as such of course, merely false hypos. makes you wonder about all the other "reported" hypos.
 
Well, my alcohol-induced ones, before I was diabetic, were certainly hypos - "palpitations, tremor, sweating" out of Phoenix's description. They would wake me up in the early morning, and scare me silly because I thought it was a heart problem. GP when asked looked vague and checked my heart - apparently fine. Only when I became diabetic and learned the symptoms of a hypo did I realise what had been happening. Must tell the GP :wink: .

I wish I could remember what food I'd eaten with the wine, because they certainly didn't happen every time I drank :shock: . Maybe I'd had mashed potato or too much pasta :oops: .

Strangely enough, since diagnosis and going back to eating low carb I have never had a "night-time hypo" - despite drinking just as much wine on occasion :oops: . Seems the alcohol/fast carb combination mentioned above could have been causing the problem.

Must tell my GP! :wink:

Finally: yesterday I ate my usual 2-egg omelette, an Atkins "Daybreak" bar and a mug of soup over the day. I was sitting on the sofa at about 17:30, feeling cold and shivery and miserable, when I suddenly decided to check my BGs. 3.5 :shock: . A sort-of "hypo" caused by lack of food, possibly? A small piece of cheese put me right, and I had my supper soon after that.

Always something interesting to learn . . . :D

Viv 8)
 
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