CAN SOMEONE PLEASE HELP A NEWBIE?

[mooki]

As stated in an earlier post i do not have diabetes but have PCOS and am insulin resistance so am at high risk of developing type 2 diabetes so need to sort this out through diet but and gettin confused with the whole daily carbs thing. I am going to aim for around 50g a day but do not want to get obsessed with counting carbs so will at the least cut out bread, pasta, rice an potatoes and of course sugary snacks and see how it goes.

I would be very grateful if anyone following a low carb diet could tell me a typical days diet so i can get an idea of what i should be doing.

Thanks guys! i'm very very grateful for youe help!

 

[sugarless sue]

Best advice is to get a carb counter book and work out a diet that you like and can stick to. We are all different so what works for one does not always work for another.

 

[NickW]

As sue says, this is a very personal thing. I'd post my current diet for example, but I'm a 6' 3" bloke who's trying to gain weight at the moment - so probably best you don't eat what I do!!

Your general points there are all spot on. Eliminate the high carb foods first and see how you go. My own opinion is that a "paleo" approach is the healthiest - this basically means eating unprocessed / unrefined foods like meat, fish, eggs, leafy vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds - the kind of thing a caveman could dig up, pick from a tree, hunt or fish. Fruit can of course be high in carbohydrate so I'd limit my fruit intake (and eat berries as your first choice - strawberries, blackberries, blueberries, raspberries are all good choices as they don't contain much carbohydrate). Starchy veg (like sweet potatoes, parsnips etc.) are also fairly carb-tastic so I'd limit those as well.

This kind of diet is what we evolved to eat. You're not diabetic yet but you do have some metabolic damage (as you're insulin resistant); this approach is a great way of halting or even reversing that damage, and may well prevent you from ever becoming diabetic.

For what it's worth, my diet looks like the above; protein at every meal, lots of green veggies, and plenty of healthy fats, pretty much all of it coming from real, unprocessed food. I can give you specifics if you really want, but you probably aren't looking for a 4000-calorie-per-day diet! I've got far better diabetic control than I ever had before, blood pressure is down,my general health is great, I'm fitter than ever... I wouldn't eat any other way now.

However, adherence is important; if you can't stick to this kind of diet 100% then don't try to force yourself and fail! It's better to eat a diet that's healthy in the main, but contains some (sensible) cheats, than to be really good for a fortnight then pack it in and have a week-long carb binge. Again this comes down to you and is very different from one person to the next.

"Counting carbs" means different things to different people. I think your approach - not getting obsessed about it - is a good one. It's one thing to find out that you're eating x grams of carbohydrate a day so you know how that affects you; it's an entirely different thing emotionally to restrict yourself to x grams of carbs per day. Start off eating "well", work out how much carbs that contains, and see if you're happy with that amount. You say you're insulin resistant, so I assume that your blood sugar is elevated at least some of the time; I'd suggest getting a glucose meter and strips and testing yourself occasionally so you can see the effect your diet is having, and "fine tune" the amount of carbohydrate you can tolerate.

Hope that's of some help, do post back with any more questions.

Cheers,
Nick.

 

[mooki]

thank you ever so much, that is brilliant advice! i will take this advice and see how i get on! thank you so much for taking the time out to reply to me it is much appreciated.

i love this website!

 

[the_anticarb]

I use a traffic light approach

green foods = meat, fish, cheese, nuts, soya milk (unsweetened), green veg, berries
amber foods = natural yogurt, carrots, dark chocolate
red foods = potatoes, rice, pasta, bread, cakes, pastry, sugar

seems to work ok but I am wanting to put more foods in the amber category now and a bit scared to change my model!

 

[milesrf]

I met someone with PCOS and found a few web sites for her:


Effects of oral fat and glucose tolerance test on serum lipid profile, apolipoprotein, and CRP concentration, and insulin resistance in patients with polycystic ovary syndrome.

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17362944

Rather technical; a research paper


PCOS and Metformin (Glucophage)

http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/glucophage-metformin-pcos.html

 

[veggienft]

Commonly people try low carb diets to lose weight. People suffering autoimmune symptoms often seek low carb diets because they are known to work against autoimmune diseases and conditions.

The reason low carb diets work against autoimmunity is that they severely trim back gluten and sugar consumption.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art1507.asp

Women with celiac disease who do not follow a gluten-free diet have been found to enter menopause 4-5 years earlier than other women.

In addition, up to 39% of women with celiac disease have been shown to have periods of amenorhea (no periods). Clearly, if you are sensitive to gluten it can negatively impact your reproduction. Men with celiac disease have also been shown to have reduced fertility. While gluten sensitivity is not different than celiac disease, it only makes sense to investigate gluten sensitivity while battling unexplained infertility.

Smith said that 85% of her PCOS clients test positive for a sensitivity to gluten. When these women remove gluten from their diets they often see a marked improvement in their PCOS symptoms. She has also seen dramatic improvement in cholesterol levels, thyroid function and weight loss in women who have changed their diets to avoid gluten.

http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/news38.html#sec2

The University of Barcelona in Spain has discovered a new link between autoimmunity and PCOS. .... This study showed that women with polycystic ovary syndrome had increased levels of AEA (anti-endometrial antibodies) as compared to normal women. AEA is a protein that signals your immune system to attack endometrial tissue in your uterus. ... Some clinicians now suspect that gluten plays a more important role in autoimmunity that previously thought.

I outlined some of the issues here:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10360&start=15

This is about growing harmful microorganisms with ingested sugar. The immune system mistakes ingested protein for the microorganisms. It attacks the protein and the tissue it touches .........autoimmune disease.

Stop ingesting sugar and gluten. Then identify the other proteins which cause the same symptoms.
..

 

[gasman53]

Hi Guys. I was only diagnosed with type 2 last week so i am very new to the whole thing. The low carb issue is a biggy for me as i am a pasta/rice potato lover. Thankfully i am also a green veg/fruit and nut lover so hopefully i will be able to adapt my eating habits without to much trouble. Can anyone suggest a good cookbook that covers the lowcarbissue. Any info will be gratefully taken onboard. Cheers Guys.

 

[fergus]

Hi gasman,

This might be a good one for you. 'Low carb 1-2-3' by Rozanne Gold published by Rodale. Lots of top nosh and complete nutritional breakdowns for every dish including carbs, protein, fat and fibre. The only problem is those annoying American cup measures.

All the best,

fergus

 

[wallycorker]

Hi Guys. I was only diagnosed with type 2 last week so i am very new to the whole thing. The low carb issue is a biggy for me as i am a pasta/rice potato lover. Thankfully i am also a green veg/fruit and nut lover so hopefully i will be able to adapt my eating habits without to much trouble. Can anyone suggest a good cookbook that covers the lowcarbissue. Any info will be gratefully taken onboard. Cheers Guys.

Hi gasman53,

I'm a Type 2 who has sorted out my condition mainly by cutting back dramatically on the starchy carbohydrates that I eat - i.e. cereals, bread, potatoes, rice and pasta. Despite that, I still eat quite a lot of carbohydrate in a day but most of it as fruit or vegetables. Personally, I find that fruit does hardly anything to my blood glucose levels so I eat loads of it - I carry small apples and oranges with me wherever I go and snack on them at one or two hour intervals.

I also find - as do many other Type 2s - that I can't take any carbohydrate at breakfast time without my blood glucose figures shooting into double figures - so I don't have carbohydrate at that time I have a grilled or fried braekfast instead - e.g. bacon and tomatoes or mushrooms etc.

I generally, have a big salad with fruit (e.g. grapes or apple) and lean meat or fish for lunch.

By evening meal, I can eat quite a lot of carbohydrate without going high so I do eat some carbohydrate at that meal - e.g. wholegrain rice or pasta - sometimes a few potatoes.

Yesterday, I just happened to eat 220g of carbohydrate (quite a lot more than usual) and my readings were as follows: 4.4 on rising, 6.4 one hour after eating lunch and 7.1 one hour after eating evening meal. Quite remarkable and unexpected results!

I never follow any diet or menu plans - I simply keep adjusting my diet in a direction that gives further improves to my blood glucose control.

Hope that you will find this useful.

Best wishes - John

 

[cugila]

Yesterday, I just happened to eat 220g of carbohydrate (quite a lot more than usual) and my readings were as follows: 4.4 on rising, 6.4 one hour after eating lunch and 7.1 one hour after eating evening meal. Quite remarkable and unexpected results!

I never follow any diet or menu plans - I simply keep adjusting my diet in a direction that gives further improves to my blood glucose control

John.

I am interested to know what your 2 hr post meal readings were and also what sort of food you ate to give you the 220g carbohydrate figure.

 

[wallycorker]

Yesterday, I just happened to eat 220g of carbohydrate (quite a lot more than usual) and my readings were as follows: 4.4 on rising, 6.4 one hour after eating lunch and 7.1 one hour after eating evening meal. Quite remarkable and unexpected results!

I never follow any diet or menu plans - I simply keep adjusting my diet in a direction that gives further improves to my blood glucose control

John.

I am interested to know what your 2 hr post meal readings were and also what sort of food you ate to give you the 220g carbohydrate figure.

Hi Ken,

I didn't do any two hour readings - I rarely do these days. Extensive testing has shown that one hour after finishing eating is much more relevant to my situation these days.

On rising - 4.4
Breakfast
Bacon (145 cals, 0g carbs)
Tomatoes fried (24 cals, 4.6g carbs)
Olive Oil - (23 cals, 0g carbs)
Burgen bread (1/2 slice) (55 cals, 6.0g carb)

Lunch
Jacket potato - Large (272 cals, 63.4g carb - estimated)
Baked Beans (150 cals, 25.5g carb - estimated)
Butter (100 cals, 0 g carb - estimated)
6.4 - one hour after eating

Apple (Cals 62, 15g carb)

Orange (Cals 30, 7g carb)

Evening Meal
Braised Beef in Ale - M&S Ready Meal (220 cals, 11.5 carb)
Green beans in caramelised onions & almonds - M&S Ready Meal (85 cals, 5.3 carb)
Oven Chips - very small (112 cals, 21.0 carb)
Yoghurt Muller Light (100 Cals, 15.0 carb)
7.1 - one hour after eating

Nuts and dried fruit - 20g (100 Cals, 9.0g carb)

Orange (30 cals, 7.0g carb)

Apple (62 cals, 15.0 g carb)

Supper
Oatcake - Tesco (45 cals, 5.6 carb)
Soft cheese - Laughing Cow Extra Light (20 cals, 0 carb)

Re-checked my mental arithmetic and found that I'd made a small mistake. I make that 210.9g of carb in a daily intake of 1635 calories - i.e. more than 50% of calories as carbohydrate.

It's a fairly typical day apart from lunch. I usually eat salad with meat or fish at lunchtime but on this particular day I bought the jacket potato and baked beans from a local bakery shop. I really was expecting a much higher reading from that meal. Everything else is quite typical breakfast, evening meal , supper and snacks.

Hope that might be of interest to you.

John

 

[cugila]

Hi John.

A lot of what you ate is probably not going to show up until at least 2 hrs , sometimes 3 hrs. Maybe you could test at those times and let us know what your readings are. That, I would be very interested in hearing.

A 1 hr test will only show a spike at that point, it doesn't tell you what is happening 2 or even 3hrs later. It could be going up OR down. That is the relevant readings you need to take. That will tell you what sort of effect those foods are having on you on a daily basis.

 

[wallycorker]

Hi John.

A lot of what you ate is probably not going to show up until at least 2 hrs , sometimes 3 hrs. Maybe you could test at those times and let us know what your readings are. That, I would be very interested in hearing.

A 1 hr test will only show a spike at that point, it doesn't tell you what is happening 2 or even 3hrs later. It could be going up OR down. That is the relevant readings you need to take. That will tell you what sort of effect those foods are having on you on a daily basis.

Ken,

In the past I've done loads of testing at 2 hours and 3 hours and longer in some instances and in almost all cases found it going down after one hour or 90 mins. I've got loads of records if there are any meals in particular that you'd be interested in.

I fully understand that some meals can spike later than one hour. However, it is my experience that most meals that I eat these days spike around one hour on my tests. In fact, I was in Italy last week and ate a pizza which I tested extensively because I hadn't eaten one in a long time and that spiked later than one hour. I had read and knew that might in fact be the case. Experimentation is what I call it! The results for that were as follows:

4.7 Before eating
Pizza
Red wine - 350mls approx
6.4 - one hour after finishing eating
9.0 - 90 mins after finishing eating
9.7 - two hours after finishing eating
8.1 - 150 mins after finishing eating
6.3 - three hours after finishing eating

The testing cost more than the pizza!

Quite horrific in my opinion - off the graph altogether compared with other meals that I usually eat these days. I new what I was doing and was quite relaxed about eating the meal but I shan't be repeating the exercise!!!! Pizzas are now off the list of foods that I eat.

I'm quite happy with the testing regime that I've established after testing intensively over the last twelve months or so and I've no plans to make any changes other than carrying out the odd experiments from time to time.

John

 

[cugila]

Hi John.
Have you any 2 and/or 3 hr readings for these:

Jacket potato - Large (272 cals, 63.4g carb - estimated)
Baked Beans (150 cals, 25.5g carb - estimated)
Oven Chips - very small (112 cals, 21.0 carb)
Oatcake - Tesco (45 cals, 5.6 carb)

Glad to hear you know of the 'Pizza Effect' - there are other foods which are slow release too. They have the same effect. Your Bg rises over sometimes several hours, so it is well to be aware of it.

Still, it looks like you are on the ball, we just don't want a newbie to think testing at one hour is the best thing to do. It's only after intensive testing like you that they should even consider just sticking with a one hour test, otherwise they have no idea what is really happening to their blood glucose levels. They should all stay with the tried and tested before meals and the 2 hr testing after meals. Gives a much better view, especially if coupled with the use of a food diary to relate everything to.

I've been doing it for 12 yrs now and personally I don't rely on my old data as your Bg levels rise and fall on an hourly/daily basis and your metabolism can also fluctuate and changes over time in the same manner, so I stick to the 2 hr testing, unless it is something new when I can test at 2,3,4 sometimes 5hrs. I don't leave anything to chance. I do sometimes also throw in the odd 1 hr test, again only with new foods, to see if there is a spike. That's my method, seems to work well for me.

Still interesting to hear your thought though.

 

[wallycorker]

...........It's only after intensive testing like you that they should even consider just sticking with a one hour test, otherwise they have no idea what is really happening to their blood glucose levels.......

Ken,

I don't necessarily agree with what you say there. Certainly, it's not what I find from my intensive tests. I'm almost always back down after 2 hours - usually in the 5s. Because of that I consider that 2 hours after eating tells me nothing these days. I want to try to find the spike so that I can see what the meal has done to my blood glucose levels.

I'll give you a few recent examples:

26/11/09 - Breakfast at a Motorway service station in France during 24 hour coach journey.
4.3 Before
Orange Juice 200ml - (20.0 g carb)
Croissant (Carb ????)
9.3 - one hour after eating
8.0 - 90 mins after eating

What would testing at 2 hours have told me?

20/11/09 - Lunch
No test before
Plaice (23.5g carb)
Carrots (10.0g carb)
Beans (3.5g carb)
Potatoes (12.0g carb)
Tartar sauce (2.0g carb)
7.6 - one hour after eating
5.8 - 90 mins after finishing eating

What would testing at 2 hours have told me?

19/11/09 - Evening snack
6.7 Before - possibly slightly high because I'd eaten a bowl of soup not too long before
Grapes - 125g (13.0g carb)
5.9 - 30 mins after finishing eating
6.8 - 60 mins after finishing eating
5.5 - 90 mins after finishing eating

What would testing at 2 hours have told me?

11/11/09 - Breakfast
4.1 Before
Vogel's Soya & Linseed Bran - 45g (20.4g carb)
Skimmed Milk - 150 ml (7.4g carb)
8.6 - one hour after finishing eating
6.8 - 90 mins after finishing eating

What would testing at 2 hours have told me?

Certainly, I think that testing after one hour gives me personally much more information compared with testing after 2 hours.

I've many more examples if they are of any interest to you. However, in creating this debate haven't you hijacked mooki's thread. Didn't we ought to be having this debate elsewhere in a separate thread?

Best wishes as always - John

 

[cugila]

I've many more examples if they are of any interest to you. However, in creating this debate haven't you hijacked mooki's thread. Didn't we ought to be having this debate elsewhere in a separate thread?

John.

What you do with your testing is entirely up to you. If you think that is all you need to do I am not arguing with you.

Testing at 2 hrs is the recognised way to test. You eat and then by the 2 hr point your Bg levels should have come back to near normal, except in the presence of fats which would entail testing at 3 or even 4 hrs.

I am however telling ALL new members that 1 hr testing is not the best way forward. That is not just my opinion but also the opinion of many others. I know which I prefer to recommend and will continue to do so. The method used by most if not all medical professionals is as I have stated ? You want to do something different that is entirely up to you. Your choice.

As for the thread being hijacked.....that is your opinion, in my view it is clarifying to a newbie just what the correct testing method should be, not discussing what an 'old hand' does. I could recommend some of my own methods here, wouldn't make them right. There is always someone who does things differently.

We are in the business of advising new members and especially newly diagnosed.....that is the priority here. The original post goes back to the 14th October, so I don't think the OP will be too bothered by the discussion taking a different path. That is what happens in all threads, it is not derailed, just explained. Thanks for your input, I don't need to know chapter and verse about your particular diet.

 

[wallycorker]

OK ken - whatever you say! However, it was you who was asking.

Best wishes - John

 

[graham64]

I'm with John on this, a 1hr PP reading can show potentially dangerous spikes which often do not show at 2hrs. For an example porridge gave me acceptable 2hr PPs but due to a higher than expected HbA1c I started to test at the 1hr PP and found I was going into double figures.
As for the nice guidelines if I had a 2hr PP of 8.5 that would most certainly mean I had been into high Bg numbers at 1hr. By using the Ihr PP test I have been able to maintain good BG levels and still be diet controlled without the need fo medications.

Graham

 

[cugila]

Nobody, least of all me is saying a 1hr test is wrong.....of course it shows spikes......read my post.
I'm not really interested as to who is with who either......immaterial. :wink:

It is directed towards newbies, we were all just that once, remember ? They need the correct information about testing at the correct times, before and after meals so they know what is happening. What an experienced Diabetic chooses to do is entirely up to them....they know the risks and the pitfalls.

There is a sticky in the 'Ask The Experts' section entitled, 'Giving Advice To New Members'. All members should be aware of it. It's been there since October 2009.
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