Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Cocosilk, Sep 16, 2019.

1. ### Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

Messages:
743
189
Trophy Points:
103
I don't have the best brain for maths but I'm wondering if there is a way to get an idea of your average levels by knowing roughly what your daily patterns are from having measured at home.

Does anyone know if it can be done from several finger prick readings, perhaps looking across different days and calculating as if it happened everyday with a similar pattern?

For example, let's say a fasting of anywhere between 4.8 and 5.2, let's call it 5.0.

One meal a day with before being 5.4;
1h being 8.5;
2 hour being 6.5,
3 hour being 5.5
and between meals being between 4.5 and 5.5, call it 5.0.

Then the other two meals being
before 5.5;
1h 7.5;
2h 6.0
and
before 4.8;
1h 6.7;
2h 5.5.

And before bed being 5.5 - 6.5, call it 6.0.

And just use those figures to make an average reading. Is anyone good at maths?

P.S. I will get an actual HbA1c soon anyway but it would be interesting to try to predict it before I get the real thing done.

#1
2. ### bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

Messages:
15,298
10,874
Trophy Points:
298
As there will still be periods of the day when you have no idea what your readings are (when you are sleeping for example) any estimate will likely be very inaccurate. If you are wearing a CGM constantly it may give you a more precise guesstimate but they are also open to flaws.. as indeed is the HbA1c test itself.

• Like x 1
• Agree x 1
#2
3. ### Brunneria Other · Moderator Staff Member

Messages:
19,984
33,748
Trophy Points:
298
Totally agree with @bulkbiker.

Yes, you can test frequently, calculate your average, and come to a guesstimate.

Or you can wear a flash glucose monitor or continuous glucose monitor, and get the gadget to come to a guesstimate using an algorithm that is beyond my ken.

Neither of these methods will be particularly accurate, since the HbA1c is not actually an average of glucose readings over the last 3 months, it is actually an indication of how much glucose has stuck to your red blood cells over a vague timeframe that roughly equates to the last 2-3 months (the life of the red blood cell), and is heavily weighted towards the last few weeks, and further obfuscated by the length that your personal red blood cells live (it varies), and by a number of other health issues that you may, or may not, have (e.g. anaemia).

• Winner x 2
#3
4. ### Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

Messages:
4,338
3,295
Trophy Points:
198

1. You'd have to test a hell of a lot in order to get an accurate picture of your average glucose.
2. HbA1c is often an imperfect measure of average glucose.

• Like x 1
#4
5. ### Saur · Well-Known Member

Messages:
157
40
Trophy Points:
28
A lot of people have brought their HB1AC down on the forum. Any examples of how their readings has gone down and what their readings are now. What changes they made and how. My six monthly check has risen from 44 to 45. Very disappointed with the results but have to admit did have a lot of cheating days.

#5
6. ### xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

Messages:
3,247
2,236
Trophy Points:
178
MySugr app is free. When I first started, I was testing 6 times a day. After 6 days it gave me an estimated number. The number a couple of months later was 37, the lab test HbA1c was 35, close enough for me. I found it highly motivating when I first started. You can record quite a bit of stuff on it, but most important is your readings and food.

• Agree x 2
• Informative x 2
• Useful x 1
#6
7. ### Prem51 Type 2 · Expert

Messages:
6,491
18,766
Trophy Points:
198
I thought my daily finger prick readings would give me a rough idea of what my HbA1c would be, when I started out.
But it doesn't. My last HbA1c in August was 48 IFCC, my 90 day average on the day I was tested was 6.8, which would be 40.8.

• Informative x 2
• Like x 1
• Agree x 1
#7
8. ### Brunneria Other · Moderator Staff Member

Messages:
19,984
33,748
Trophy Points:
298
Yes, I am the same.
My HbA1c is usually around 5mmol/mol higher than my calculations predict (using a Libre and compensating for the fact that my Libre always reads at least 1mmol/l lower than my prick tests, using the Tee2)

Other factors in play are the fact that HbA1c results are subject to some inaccuracy and different labs can produce different results.

• Agree x 1
• Informative x 1
#8
9. ### Robbity Type 2 · Expert

Messages:
6,004
14,432
Trophy Points:
198
For what it's worth I can usually get a reasonable "guesstimate" from my 3 monthly averages on my meter using our diabetes.co.uk converter. And from experience I know that this figure is always slightly lower than my actual HbA1c test results.

Using Libre sensor software calculations my predicted HbA1c figures were way below actual results.- misleadingly putting me well into normal figures.

However all these are simply general guides and not an exact science, and my pre and post meal figures are the ones I prefer to take most note of as these give some inducation of how what I'm eating affects my glucose levels. Though again other factors come intro play - medication. pain, stress, etc will also have an effect on levels.

But after nearly 6 years I probably know equally well how I'm likely to be doing without guestimates from gadgets, and initially in the first coiuple fo months from diafnosis my levels came down to pre-diabetic without the use of a meter, simply by eating a reduced carbohydrate diet - but my meter has since been and continues to be a useful tool.

Robbity

ETA Duff link to converter fixed now!

• Informative x 2
• Like x 1
• Winner x 1
#9
Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
10. ### Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

Messages:
24,803
30,398
Trophy Points:
298
I have learnt to more or less ignore my HbA1c. Instead I rely on my finger pricking and my part-time Libre use (after compensating for it mostly reading lower than my finger pricks). The HbA1c keeps my nurse happy, but it doesn't make me happy.

• Agree x 2
#10
11. ### Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

Messages:
2,476
2,726
Trophy Points:
158
I "test" 288 times a day with a reasonably well calibrated cgm, and it estimated 90 day hba1c as 34. The hospital reading was 31.

• Like x 1
• Winner x 1
#11
12. ### Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator Staff Member

Messages:
10,605
12,934
Trophy Points:
298
Like @xfieldok I input my data into MySugr. The estimated HbA1c is always lower than my lab tests, however I just use it as a guide to see trends up or down.

• Agree x 1
• Winner x 1
#12
13. ### Saur · Well-Known Member

Messages:
157
40
Trophy Points:
28
Can I ask what is a Libre and also cgm. I have seen these in the posts but have no knowledge.

#13
14. ### bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

Messages:
15,298
10,874
Trophy Points:
298
#14
15. ### MeiChanski Type 1 · Well-Known Member

Messages:
2,830
1,622
Trophy Points:
198
Libre is a flash glucose monitoring system (FGM), it shows what’s been happening inbetween tests and overnight but you have to scan it to get a result. Whereas a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) produces a reading every 5 minutes to give overnight patterns and inbetween finger pricks.

• Agree x 1
• Informative x 1
#15
16. ### Saur · Well-Known Member

Messages:
157
40
Trophy Points:
28
Thankyou both.

• Like x 1
• Friendly x 1
#16
17. ### Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

Messages:
743
189
Trophy Points:
103
I've measured overnight a few times since I am often up (was up a lot peeing while pregnant) and now up with baby.

What I have never known is what level I should aim for before bed and what level is better to have overnight (not taking insulin but I am breastfeeding a couple of times through the night).

The times I have measured I am usually in the 5s somewhere - sometimes mid 5s if I was high 5s or 6s after a late dinner. By morning, after 8 hours of fasting, I can sometimes be back in the high 4s but will creep up into the low 5s if I don't eat breakfast until 11am or so.
Other times I am in the low 5s when I wake and it drops back into the high 4s if I don't eat breakfast until 11am.

Maybe they are all just imagined because my metre could give half a mmol either way for no apparent reason and most of the fluctuations in my morning fasting levels are all within half a mmol usually. So maybe they are all the same difference. That's why I would call it around 5.0 mmol.

My fasting before a glucose tolerance test was 5.1 while I was pregnant (and I ate a lot and late the night before because I didn't want to feel hungry... imagine! ha ha).

My follow up fasting at 2 months postpartum was 4.4 mmol, but that was after probably 14 hours of fasting and I'd been breastfeeding during that time.

In reality, I'm probably somewhere in the middle if I don't over eat or have to breastfeed.

If I had to guess my HbA1c, I'm thinking somewhere around 5.5%. Could be more or maybe it's not quite there yet, if I am lucky. That means an average of 6.2 mmol I think.

I think I see 4s more often than 8s, and I think I see 5s more often than 6s, and 6s more often than 7s. The 8s are because I'm playing around with some carbs again. Obviously sensitive to them. In the past 6 months I did see 3 or 4 times a 9.0 and a 10 mmol but I know how to avoid that now usually. I've likewise see 3.4 and 3.6 just a couple of times as well.

#17
18. ### Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

Messages:
743
189
Trophy Points:
103

Wait, I found this one. Is this it? https://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-to-blood-sugar-level-converter.html

#18
19. ### Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

Messages:
743
189
Trophy Points:
103
I just calculated an average for these figures, just 10 of them, and got 6.14. That converts to a HbA1c of around 5.5%, which is what I guessed I might be just going on the feeling. So maybe the real one will come back even higher than that if that's what most of you found. Maybe I will be in the prediabetic range. Or on the dysfunctional end of "normal" but not yet diagnosable.

#19
20. ### Robbity Type 2 · Expert

Messages:
6,004
14,432
Trophy Points:
198
• Like x 1
#20
• ### Meet the Community

Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

Grab the app!