Canadian Diebetes. can you believe this

[Tom Green]

Tom may be on to something. Why worry about lifestyle changes to prevent or mitigate chronic and acute diseases when all the symptoms can just be treated or managed at great expense? If you lose a foot to diabetes, they'll make you a custom prosthetic. Get heart disease from elevated insulin levels? Get a triple bypass. Go blind? Get a seeing eye dog and learn braille. Kidney failure? Dialysis. Liver failure? Transplant. Cancer from smoking? Chemotherapy/radiation. Brilliant!

Hen did I become an advocate Of a poor diet? My breakfast was a banana and 2 fruit Zero yogurts .
Explain how a middle aged man who runs 10 marathons a year had bypass surgury? He was the picture of health. Do you know how many athletes have diabetes and health issues?
There are no magic solutions to health.
My 1st wife didn't drink or smoke. Not an ounce of fat and died from cancer at 30.
I can go on a rabbit diet and not have elevated BG but that is unrealistic.

Why pancreases stop producing enough insulin is a big question. I'm not sure it has anything to do with diet.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Hen did I become an advocate Of a poor diet? My breakfast was a banana and 2 fruit Zero yogurts .
Explain how a middle aged man who runs 10 marathons a year had bypass surgury? He was the picture of health. Do you know how many athletes have diabetes and health issues?
There are no magic solutions to health.
My 1st wife didn't drink or smoke. Not an ounce of fat and died from cancer at 30.
I can go on a rabbit diet and not have elevated BG but that is unrealistic.

Why pancreases stop producing enough insulin is a big question. I'm not sure it has anything to do with diet.

So you are perfectly okay with your type 2 progressing until you are on insulin. That's great. Unfortunately that approach, which is the current health care industry standard (that's what my diabetes nurse said would happen if I followed the protocol they wanted me to follow), will bankrupt our health care system. Insulin isn't cheap, along with treating all the complications. I preferred to ignore their protocol and change my diet to something that would actually reverse my diabetes. No, I don't eat like a rabbit.

 

[Oldvatr]

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How low was it? Going on insulin is the best thing I ever did to control my diabetes. I've had 4 hypos in 2 years and I just took a few glucose pills or candy.
I check my BG 5 or more times a day. After a while you become very proficient at using the correct dosage.

Not everybody has the wherewithall to cope. My friend is on a pump which takes a significant time to react to any changes. His reading was 1.6 mmol/L. He is currently having at least 1 hypo a week, but normally catches them when they are between 2 and 3.4 mmol/L. He was recently told he was testing too often,and had his allowance cut to 4 tests per day. He has also had his insulin reduced, so keeps getting highs, and then overcompensates. It is swings and roundabouts for him. He generally has a blue light callout once every 3 months because he lives on his own. I need to drive, so even 1 hypo for me would be disastrous, and no one is going to persuade me otherwise.

 

[Tom Green]

So you are perfectly okay with your type 2 progressing until you are on insulin. That's great. Unfortunately that approach, which is the current health care industry standard (that's what my diabetes nurse said would happen if I followed the protocol they wanted me to follow), will bankrupt our health care system. Insulin isn't cheap, along with treating all the complications. I preferred to ignore their protocol and change my diet to something that would actually reverse my diabetes. No, I don't eat like a rabbit.

I've been on 2 insulins for over 2 years at my request . I'm thrilled with my orogress as are my diabetes care people. I take 64 units Lantus at night and about 20 units before each meal depending on what I eat. The only thing that will bankrupt our health care are the left wing idiots we just elected.

 

[zand]

I've been on 2 insulins for over 2 years at my request . I'm thrilled with my orogress as are my diabetes care people. I take 64 units Lantus at night and about 20 units before each meal depending on what I eat. The only thing that will bankrupt our health care are the left wing idiots we just elected.

And what's the next option for you if that stops working?

 

[Tom Green]

.

Not everybody has the wherewithall to cope. My friend is on a pump which takes a significant time to react to any changes. His reading was 1.6 mmol/L. He is currently having at least 1 hypo a week, but normally catches them when they are between 2 and 3.4 mmol/L. He was recently told he was testing too often,and had his allowance cut to 4 tests per day. He has also had his insulin reduced, so keeps getting highs, and then overcompensates. It is swings and roundabouts for him. He generally has a blue light callout once every 3 months because he lives on his own. I need to drive, so even 1 hypo for me would be disastrous, and no one is going to persuade me otherwise.

That is scary. I would dump the pump if it reacts too slowly. My hypos were in the 4 range and only a few over 2 years. I feel them quickly and take glucose tabs or candy.
I met a guy who had a 1 reading and had crashed his car into a street sign. They took his liscence away .
I just tested myself and had a 7.3 after having a banana and 2 Zero fruit yogurts . My base insulin Lantus works quite wel unless I have a heavier meal.

 

[Tom Green]

And what's the next option for you if that stops working?

It won't. My Diabetes care people are very happy with my BG. Insulin is a natural substance that my pancreas no longer produces enough of. I've been T2 for 40+ years.
I have a Cardiologist and all the support medical care anyone could ever ask for. Canadians pay high taxes to get the care we have.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I've been on 2 insulins for over 2 years at my request . I'm thrilled with my orogress as are my diabetes care people. I take 64 units Lantus at night and about 20 units before each meal depending on what I eat. The only thing that will bankrupt our health care are the left wing idiots we just elected.

So, all things being equal, you prefer being on insulin instead of not having to be on insulin to control your blood glucose? Interesting. I prefer not having to be on insulin and not having type 2 diabetes and not be on any meds.

 

[zand]

It won't. My Diabetes care people are very happy with my BG. Insulin is a natural substance that my pancreas no longer produces enough of. I've been T2 for 40+ years.
I have a Cardiologist and all the support medical care anyone could ever ask for. Canadians pay high taxes to get the care we have.

What I really don't understand is that as an obese T2 I am frowned upon as "I must have had a bad diet to get this way". Yet you are happy to eat the things I don't eat and inject to cover. It doesn't make any kind of sense to me. Still as someone else said , good on you for posting your views. We can't all be the same.

 

[Tom Green]

So, all things being equal, you prefer being on insulin instead of not having to be on insulin to control your blood glucose? Interesting. I prefer not having to be on insulin and not having type 2 diabetes and not be on any meds.

What we prefer isn't always reality. Yes I think insulin is a life saver

What I really don't understand is that as an obese T2 I am frowned upon as "I must have had a bad diet to get this way". Yet you are happy to eat the things I don't eat and inject to cover. It doesn't make any kind of sense to me. Still as someone else said , good on you for posting your views. We can't all be the same.

I wasn't obese and I believe that has little to do with causing the pancrease to stop producing enough insulin. What we eat when you have a failing pancrease affects the BG level because you can't cope with the glucose. You didn't cause your diabetes.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

What we prefer isn't always reality. Yes I think insulin is a life saver

That doesn't address anything I said. If you prefer having to use insulin compared to not having to use insulin (achieving normal blood glucose levels in both cases), then good for you.

 

[Tom Green]

So, all things being equal, you prefer being on insulin instead of not having to be on insulin to control your blood glucose? Interesting. I prefer not having to be on insulin and not having type 2 diabetes and not be on any meds.

Yes I prefer not to be diabetic but I am and insulin is a God send for all diabetics.
I was always amazed at the resistance to using insulin. My diabetic people were surprised at how positive I was because they are used to people being negative.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

Yes I prefer not to be diabetic but I am and insulin is a God send foe all diabetics.
I was always amazed at the resistance to using insulin. My diabetic people were surprised at how positive I was because they are used to people being negative.

Ok. Personally, I'd prefer to avoid the standard route for type 2 diabetics of progressively getting worse until having to be on insulin.

 

[AloeSvea]

I can go on a rabbit diet and not have elevated BG but that is unrealistic.

Why pancreases stop producing enough insulin is a big question. I'm not sure it has anything to do with diet.

I like that you are brave and walk where other angels might fear to tread! . And reading you is really interesting - as I am quite sure you represent many diabetics in your attitude and treatment choice - just you are very expressive and honest about it. You've been very informative for me about this for sure.

But lots of us in this forum have read and researched a lot about T2D, and share info with each other about the causes, and diet and exercise treatment. I, in particular, for instance, really like the evolutionary biology look at T2D. (I am not so up with auto-immune diseases.) And read up on many scientific papers - as many of the regulars on the forum do.

They basically do know what's going on - the scientific community, and discovering more and more all the time. But as far as I know there is no controversy over the fact that T2D is caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors, and food most certainly has a lot to do with it! (I am not so convinced it has much to do with the so-called lowered activity levels. But the food industry won't like me saying that.) There isn't any controversy over insulin resistance being at the root of T2D, along with beta cell failure, and we know quite a lot about what causes insulin resistance. And it seems to be that the genetic factor - all those 40,000 (from memory) genes that contribute to giving a person the 'on' switch to developing T2D in certain situations - is about having a particular fat storage pathway. A fancy way of saying when you lay down fat stores - those fat stores go to your liver and pancreas first and foremost. This kept your ancestors alive during times of food shortage, but in a food environment of high carbohydrates and food toxins like trans fats and high fructose corn syrup in everything processed, and processed food being the norm - is dangerous for folk like us in a food environment of particular plenty.

Your sharing your point of view has helped me a lot in understanding why someone with T2D would choose the adding insulin path (and as you say - many do). And for you in your life - that method of treatment is working well for you. But as I know T2D comes first with overproduction of insulin by the body, in response to a high carbohydrate diet, then the cells resist the insulin, as high insulin is toxic to our cells - adding insulin will never make you better! As T2D is your body's response to an originally toxic situation - too many carbs, too much insulin - and our highly-robust-yet-sensitive-at-the-same-time blood glucose regulation system starts to work badly, and eventually - well. Once one knows this - how to happily add more insulin?

Mind you, I got T2D in a rush, as it were, and my health was failing enormously. Yours was more gradual? I wanted to know what was happening to my body and fix it as best I could - and fast. And for me - going from having a relatively normal life, then injecting insulin - I just could not imagine that for me at that time. I'm back to a relatively normal life, but it did take a pretty massive concentration of my energy. (That concentration of energy, by the way, was, and is greatly frowned upon in the medical community in my country - NZ. Considered bad for one's health and wellbeing! lol.)

Like NoCarbs I do not eat like a rabbit! A carnivore indeed (although probably not at NoCarbs level!) But yes, I have to put the energy you might put into the insulin and level reading, into food and preparing it (and BG reading). Not to mention the donning the short-sprint shoes, and lifting weights. (Good for the heart!)

Ah yes. We do all have to make a deal with our shared devil - the diabetes. And we can all make different deals for sure.

 

[Tom Green]

I like that you are brave and walk where other angels might fear to tread! . And reading you is really interesting - as I am quite sure you represent many diabetics in your attitude and treatment choice - just you are very expressive and honest about it. You've been very informative for me about this for sure.

But lots of us in this forum have read and researched a lot about T2D, and share info with each other about the causes, and diet and exercise treatment. I, in particular, for instance, really like the evolutionary biology look at T2D. (I am not so up with auto-immune diseases.) And read up on many scientific papers - as many of the regulars on the forum do.

They basically do know what's going on - the scientific community, and discovering more and more all the time. But as far as I know there is no controversy over the fact that T2D is caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors, and food most certainly has a lot to do with it! (I am not so convinced it has much to do with the so-called lowered activity levels. But the food industry won't like me saying that.) There isn't any controversy over insulin resistance being at the root of T2D, along with beta cell failure, and we know quite a lot about what causes insulin resistance. And it seems to be that the genetic factor - all those 40,000 (from memory) genes that contribute to giving a person the 'on' switch to developing T2D in certain situations - is about having a particular fat storage pathway. A fancy way of saying when you lay down fat stores - those fat stores go to your liver and pancreas first and foremost. This kept your ancestors alive during times of food shortage, but in a food environment of high carbohydrates and food toxins like trans fats and high fructose corn syrup in everything processed, and processed food being the norm - is dangerous for folk like us in a food environment of particular plenty.

Your sharing your point of view has helped me a lot in understanding why someone with T2D would choose the adding insulin path (and as you say - many do). And for you in your life - that method of treatment is working well for you. But as I know T2D comes first with overproduction of insulin by the body, in response to a high carbohydrate diet, then the cells resist the insulin, as high insulin is toxic to our cells - adding insulin will never make you better! As T2D is your body's response to an originally toxic situation - too many carbs, too much insulin - and our highly-robust-yet-sensitive-at-the-same-time blood glucose regulation system starts to work badly, and eventually - well. Once one knows this - how to happily add more insulin?

Mind you, I got T2D in a rush, as it were, and my health was failing enormously. Yours was more gradual? I wanted to know what was happening to my body and fix it as best I could - and fast. And for me - going from having a relatively normal life, then injecting insulin - I just could not imagine that for me at that time. I'm back to a relatively normal life, but it did take a pretty massive concentration of my energy. (That concentration of energy, by the way, was, and is greatly frowned upon in the medical community in my country - NZ. Considered bad for one's health and wellbeing! lol.)

Like NoCarbs I do not eat like a rabbit! A carnivore indeed (although probably not at NoCarbs level!) But yes, I have to put the energy you might put into the insulin and level reading, into food and preparing it (and BG reading). Not to mention the donning the short-sprint shoes, and lifting weights. (Good for the heart!)

Ah yes. We do all have to make a deal with our shared devil - the diabetes. And we can all make different deals for sure.

Friends if mine are heading to your country Sunday.
I just read a scientific report that stated the body immune system attacks the cells that produce insulin causing T2 . The actual cause isn't over eating but is rather exasperated by over eating. I know lots if fat people who over eat and never get diabetes.

 

[mekalu2k4]

Why worry about lifestyle changes to prevent or mitigate chronic and acute diseases when all the symptoms can just be treated or managed at great expense? If you lose a foot to diabetes, they'll make you a custom prosthetic. Get heart disease from elevated insulin levels? Get a triple bypass. Go blind? Get a seeing eye dog and learn braille. Kidney failure? Dialysis. Liver failure? Transplant. Cancer from smoking? Chemotherapy/radiation. Brilliant!

LOL!!!
Seriously: I have come across a few folks, including my dad keep singing similar lines. Usually I keep quite, to see that such discussions do not turn into arguments that won't help anyone. I understand the subtle humour and the point of NoCrbs4Me, but we cannot change mindsets of few. Of course my /our intentions or interests are not towards changing or educating everyone.

Coming to the point of UK system or Canadian system - the problem [at an abstract level] re T2D is that patients are no longer operating with the suggestions provided by trained GPs or nurses or even the standard recommendations. The reason behind that are evolving tech that provides wide ranging instruments to measure parameters, forums such as this, peer-to-peer advising/ counselling etc. Times are different and the actual reasons behind standard recommendations are under question.

Just imagine for a minute; if the NHS system is working very well and able to solve all issues to the satisfactions of all patients; or/and standard recommendations on diet/medication work well for everyone; - then this forum would NOT have existed or survived. No body would come here and participate.
My 2c - David

 

[AloeSvea]

Friends if mine are heading to your country Sunday.
I just read a scientific report that stated the body immune system tracks the cells that produce insulin causing T2 . The actual cause isn't over eating but is rather exasperated by over eating. I know lots if fat people who over eat and never get diabetes.

I didn't talk about body fat, but fat on the organs - a different kettle of diabetic fish, as it were. And why it's about fat storage pathways in the body, which can include fat we can see on the outside, but not necessarily. Absolutely why you can have slim T2 diabetics.

You'll never hear me talk about T2D coming from overeating! Or hear a whisper from me about portion control. (Except for me when it comes to fruit . Due to my poor ol pancreas and liver being too far gone.) I am a hearty eater - and it wouldn't have been a killer for me if I had known about carbohydrates, and insulin resistance, and I hadn't actually paid attention to the healthy plate model when I planned my meals for me and my children! Grrrrrr! (The grrrr is to the healthy plate model - not you! .)

I don't know about an immune tracking system, and its relation to T2D. Explain? Diagrams are good!

(I hope your friends enjoy themselves in Aotearoa. Remind them it's an el nino summer this year, so pack an umbrella!)

 

[AloeSvea]

or just post the link!

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I think he meant "attacks", not "tracks". Autocorrect issue, perhaps.

 

[Tom Green]

I had 75 carbs for lunch, 800 calories. Took 18 units NovoRapidt before eating. I expect BG to be in the 7 range in 2 hrs.
It is interesting how many doctors and nurses don't understand diabetes. I had a beautiful nurse come into my room to inject my Lantus while in the hospital. She checked my BG and it was around 5 She 5hen informed me she wasn't going to inject the Lantus. I explained that you always inject the long term insulin which is your base line insulin. It doesn't really take effect for a couple hours so we can check the BG then and react accordingly. She was thankful that I explained it to her.
My new doctor told me only to check BG before bed. I also had to set him straight. Now we are on the same page.
My Diabetes Care people are on the ball with the latest info. They a young RNs specifically trained in diabetes care Very refreshing dealing with them.
In Canada if you are on insulin you get 3000 test strips a year on the senior plan. On Metformin 200 and Glicide another 200. That is a very good reason for going on insulin alone.