carb count ratios - a better method idea

rmz80

Well-Known Member
Messages
332
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
I’ve been trying to improve on a situation with carb counting that has been driving me nuts i.e. a small number of carbs needs a different ratio than a high number of carbs to get a good post meal BG result (even when I’ve double checked my adding up). The situation is even weirder; as below a certain level of carbs I don’t need any insulin!

Fortunately I bought a GCSE Maths book last year which gave some examples similar to this. It’s called a slope/intercept form. This sounds complicated but you’ll have probably used this at junior school (without the fancy name).

If you get some graph paper and draw an insulin unit scale along the bottom of the graph and grams of carb up the side of the graph. Then mark each known good BG result you have available on the graph. You then draw a straight line that best fits all your readings you’ll then end up with this slope/intercept form graph which can be used as a lookup for any value of carbs.

In my case; this creates a lookup which gives a different ratio of insulin for low carb counts e.g. 14 gram of carb for each insulin unit at 75 carbs and 9 gram of carb to each insulin unit at 140 gram of carbs. It also gives a start point where no insulin units are needed (this must be the body still making a small amount of insulin. In my case; this at the 42 g carb mark (the intercept)).

This also partly explains something that applies to me. I don’t need insulin for breakfast meal (normally about 10 g carb) or lunch (normally about 50g carb), just the evening meal which is usually 90-120g carb. I was also diagnosed as Type 1 not Type 2 diabetes and do not use a long acting insulin as a base. Perhaps this graph proves the diagnosis wrong.

The idea of just using a constant ratio for all value of carbs and where the start of the graph is always at 0 is perhaps an over simplification of a real world process.

What do people think of this method?
 

mariavontrapp

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261
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Type 2
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Interesting idea, but maybe difficult for many people to develop. Keep on with your own personal investigations and see how it goes. If you are correct, then some sort of app would be useful for type 1 people.
Also, why not try to lower carbs at evening meal? I also tend to have higher carbs at this time of day and then it affects my over-night readings and fbg so I am trying out low carb alternatives such as cauliflower rice and courgette spaghetti. (I am type 2)
 

Juicyj

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Hello @rmz80 As a type 1 you need a baseline insulin to manage your blood glucose levels over a 24 hour period, quick acting is simply a tool to manage carb intake with food, unless your experiencing a honeymoon period when your pancreas is still performing a function, then your insulin requirements will be very low, however there would still be a minimal requirement for a basal insulin, so are you certain of your diagnosis ? Getting your head round how your body manages glucose is a very unique scenario to you so if your graph goes some way to replicate what you feel is happening when you consume carbs then that's a great way to analyse your carb intake.
 

catapillar

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Messages
3,390
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This is why they don't take recently diagnosed people on DAFNE courses, they tend to like to leave it at least 12 months post diagnosis. Honeymooning makes the insulin:carb ratio difficult to work out.

I would also suggest if you are several years diagnosed, you aren't on a basal insulin and you don't need to bolus for less than 42 grams of carb you don't sound like type 1 and you aren't being treated as a type 1.
 

col101

Well-Known Member
Messages
358
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
Fits with my own experience. I basal test and feel that level is right. But I do find I need less units for higher carb meals. In my case high carb is anything above 40g. Never thought about the maths I just do it by gut feel adjustments really. To further complicate regardless of this I need less insulin per carb as the day progresses too!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app
 

azure

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Hi @rmz80 :)

How long have you been diagnosed? Have you done a check to make sure your boluses aren't making up for a lack of basal insulin?

With regard to your idea, I don't find that applies really. For large (for me) carb meals, I find splitting my bolus or doing an extended bolus (I have a pump) works well.
 

rmz80

Well-Known Member
Messages
332
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Hello @rmz80 As a type 1 you need a baseline insulin to manage your blood glucose levels over a 24 hour period, quick acting is simply a tool to manage carb intake with food, unless your experiencing a honeymoon period when your pancreas is still performing a function, then your insulin requirements will be very low, however there would still be a minimal requirement for a basal insulin, so are you certain of your diagnosis ? Getting your head round how your body manages glucose is a very unique scenario to you so if your graph goes some way to replicate what you feel is happening when you consume carbs then that's a great way to analyse your carb intake.
A lot of this work on carb counting ran side by side with starting a diet. My ratios changed about once every 3 days! Up to now I’ve lost 5 stone in 8 months. The base units started at 26 units a day and became less and less to now zero.

My understanding (from a published hospital crib sheet) of correct dose base is to reach a wake up reading of 5mmol/L or above, if less (4.5-4.9 two days in a row or one day below 4.5) then deduct 1 unit from base and retest the next morning. This also knocks out the add on fast carb count ratios but can’t be helped; its start again each time the base is touched. You may guess I’ve now done this 26 times in 8 months.
 

rmz80

Well-Known Member
Messages
332
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Interesting idea, but maybe difficult for many people to develop. Keep on with your own personal investigations and see how it goes. If you are correct, then some sort of app would be useful for type 1 people.
Also, why not try to lower carbs at evening meal? I also tend to have higher carbs at this time of day and then it affects my over-night readings and fbg so I am trying out low carb alternatives such as cauliflower rice and courgette spaghetti. (I am type 2)

An app would be useful; the hard bit would be explaining to people why a set of initial good readings are needed.

These graphs can be created using Excel spreadsheet instead of graph paper. For those without a computer Excel is normally available in most public libraries. It even has a feature called graph trendline that fits a best fit straight line on a graph for you.
 

rmz80

Well-Known Member
Messages
332
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
This is why they don't take recently diagnosed people on DAFNE courses, they tend to like to leave it at least 12 months post diagnosis. Honeymooning makes the insulin:carb ratio difficult to work out.

I would also suggest if you are several years diagnosed, you aren't on a basal insulin and you don't need to bolus for less than 42 grams of carb you don't sound like type 1 and you aren't being treated as a type 1.

Your correct! I am convinced I'm type 2
 

rmz80

Well-Known Member
Messages
332
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Your correct! I am convinced I'm type 2
Im seeing a consultant on a yearly checkup in September. I think the doctors were rushed when they made the diagnosis of type 1 as there was a junior doctors strike on at time.
 
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