Cholesterol shot up statins required??

[noblehead]

Choose whichever path you want when it comes to your diet but dont be swayed by those who make their living out of diets who have no medical training or background. Those with a vested interest in one diet or another will only ever give you what information they choose that backs up their own views.

How very true :thumbup:

 

[tonyS54]

Anyone thinking of buying this book or basing their views on diet, cholesterol and statins on Jimmy Mores advice would do well to read this review of his book on Amazon.

Having looked at her blog Carbsane seems to have a personal vendetta against Jimmy Moore, you can hardly call it an unbiased review of the book.

 

[paul-1976]

Thanks for the link Sid but using a link to a review written by Evelyn Cokur to forward your point Re: Jimmy Moore is about as unbiased as a character reference at a court case involving Tom Cat that's been written by Jerry Mouse ! :shock:

 

[BarbaraMc]

Just found this thread - I eat at least 2 eggs a day, much fatty meat, and fried (in oils) foods. My cholesterol rose when I started low-carbing, to the extent that when I declined statins, the diabetic nurse threatened 'if it's not any better next time, I'll have to tell the GP!'. I told her he already knew.
Subsequently, the cholesterol was similar, but has since reduced, so it may have just settled down, or it may be the supplemental plant sterols I now take, and the nurse I see now is thrilled with my progress. (I was amazed, was expecting chastisement as I struggle to stick to anything now).
I have been taking 2x2 Metformin/day for around 2 years

 

[paul-1976]

Just found this thread - I eat at least 2 eggs a day, much fatty meat, and fried (in oils) foods. My cholesterol rose when I started low-carbing, to the extent that when I declined statins, the diabetic nurse threatened 'if it's not any better next time, I'll have to tell the GP!'. I told her he already knew.
Subsequently, the cholesterol was similar, but has since reduced, so it may have just settled down, or it may be the supplemental plant sterols I now take, and the nurse I see now is thrilled with my progress. (I was amazed, was expecting chastisement as I struggle to stick to anything now).
I have been taking 2x2 Metformin/day for around 2 years

:clap: :clap: :thumbup: :thumbup: It warms my heart to hear
of your success-Nice one !!

Best wishes

Paul

 

[Unbeliever]

The big debate it seems to me, is whether lowering cholesterol is actually useful at all in improving health. I think we might have to wait a while until this question is resolved.

What worries me abou the new guidelines to GP's re cholesterol control with statins is that they are expected to persist even when side effects occur.

i understand that when starting any new medication there can be a settling -in period . In statin use it seems quite common for the drug to be tolerated for up to five years before side effects occur., then another statin may be tried and so on.

Surely if an individual appears to be rejecting a particular type of drug after a number of years and then continues to reject other forms of the same drug , this must mean something? Shouldn't we , and our HCP's listen to the message?

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Having looked at her blog Carbsane seems to have a personal vendetta against Jimmy Moore, you can hardly call it an unbiased review of the book.

Why because she points out the errors and omissions in what he writes, some people would say she is doing a service but as I wrote earlier you may choose to believe what ever you want to and your body is your business but at least be aware of the errors and inaccuracies that are pointed out in that critique.

You may think that she has a vendetta against Jimmy Moore but she is not the only person to have pointed out that his writing contains many errors when it comes to expert quotes and the fact that many of the experts he quotes are far from experts in the first place, that and the fact that he continues to cherry pick parts of the studies he uses to back up his left field theories and leaves out anything that goes against what he believes which to me shows someone who appears to have serious doubts himself if he is scared to write the whole truth about any particular study or theory.

That said I am aware that he has a following who are willing to believe his every word but I am not one of them.

 

[mon]

Hi Paul thanks for the recommendation re dr Michael kendrick I've just ordered on amazon. Good to have all the info on this.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[tonyS54]

Having looked at her blog Carbsane seems to have a personal vendetta against Jimmy Moore, you can hardly call it an unbiased review of the book.

Why because she points out the errors and omissions in what he writes, some people would say she is doing a service but as I wrote earlier you may choose to believe what ever you want to and your body is your business but at least be aware of the errors and inaccuracies that are pointed out in that critique.

Had a further look at carbsanes blog and it's not only Jimmy Moore but many of the other well known low carb bloggers, doctors and authors she targets. I think rather than just view her review of the book you should also read the other 73.

http://www.amazon.com/Cholesterol-Clari ... ewpoints=1

 

[phoenix]

. If you are going to argue against carbsane's review, do it on the science else you are just doing what you accuse her of doing. Back up your comments with some evidence.
I would suggest that you check those reviews that come from verified purchasers. It is amazon policy that reviewers disclose if they have been given a free copy. Some of the reviewers appear to have ignored this. (a couple have corrected their error ) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/community-he ... guidelines.

The original poster asked what to do about a very high cholesterol level of 8 . I gave a link to Dr Kendrick's view on this type of cholesterol level, I'll quote from it here:

I tell patients with a cholesterol level of between 5 and 7 they’re healthy. If it’s above 7, it’s probably due to a family history of high cholesterol and if any relatives have early heart disease then it’s worth taking a statin

This is from a doctor who is considered anti-statin.
http://www.saga.co.uk/health/medicines/ ... ainst.aspx

It comes from a brief, popular article 'the case against statins' There is also a companion article 'The case in favour of statins'
http://www.saga.co.uk/health/medicines/ ... efits.aspx

Both are very general but demonstrate that there are 2 sides to the issue and at least introduce some of the issues.
There are those that think that statins are dangerous and unnecessary for anyone, and those who think that they can be life savers for those at risk.
(and it's not just CVD , check out the association between high cholesterol and retinopathy) http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/lipids.html

 

[stuffedolive]

Statins didn't agree with me and I refuse to go back on them. However, in response to refusal my GP advised Benecol drinks and garlic.
Now I low carb and eat masses of saturated fat (unlike before I went on statins) and each day swallow a finely chopped clove of garlic washed down with a dairy free benecol drink. I also eat walnuts and porridge which are supposed to be cholesterol lowering . My numbers have plummeted.

 

[paul-1976]

Statins didn't agree with me and I refuse to go back on them. However, in response to refusal my GP advised Benecol drinks and garlic.
Now I low carb and eat masses of saturated fat (unlike before I went on statins) and each day swallow a finely chopped clove of garlic washed down with a dairy free benecol drink. I also eat walnuts and porridge which are supposed to be cholesterol lowering . My numbers have plummeted.

I salute you fellow garlic lover! :thumbup: Quite ironic I'm answering your post as a garlic 'stuffed olive' is one of my favourite snacky nibbles!

 

[Unbeliever]

I have to thank you Phoenix for the link to the retinopathy and cholesterol study. I recently heard of this from a rainne hospital opthalmologist but haven't been able to find it. i found a few oher studies which seemed inconclusive.

the consultant didn't thk it relevan i my case but it has explained o me why he also asked about fibrates and said ,as I have had trouble with various statins hat ezetrol alone was beter than nothing.

i was also inrerested to read that muscle pain resulting from statin use should be invesigated via blood est. this doesn't seem to happen.
the OPs in my Practice disagree about statin use and some are happy to ide ehind he new guidelines. it is often useful to have
material of this nature to show to them to concenrate minds. the study in your link will fill he bill perfectly. Thanks again.

 

[noblehead]

Statins didn't agree with me and I refuse to go back on them. However, in response to refusal my GP advised Benecol drinks and garlic.
Now I low carb and eat masses of saturated fat (unlike before I went on statins) and each day swallow a finely chopped clove of garlic washed down with a dairy free benecol drink. I also eat walnuts and porridge which are supposed to be cholesterol lowering . My numbers have plummeted.

It's well documented that garlic and oats help reduce cholesterol levels. There was an article in the papers last week that said taking a garlic supplement reduced bp by 10%, it said that eating fresh garlic didn't have the same effect as the allicin is destroyed during the cooking process.

 

[stuffedolive]

Statins didn't agree with me and I refuse to go back on them. However, in response to refusal my GP advised Benecol drinks and garlic.
Now I low carb and eat masses of saturated fat (unlike before I went on statins) and each day swallow a finely chopped clove of garlic washed down with a dairy free benecol drink. I also eat walnuts and porridge which are supposed to be cholesterol lowering . My numbers have plummeted.

It's well documented that garlic and oats help reduce cholesterol levels. There was an article in the papers last week that said taking a garlic supplement reduced bp by 10%, it said that eating fresh garlic didn't have the same effect as the allicin is destroyed during the cooking process.

If you eat it raw (no chewing allowed) then the allicin is preserved

 

[tonyS54]

. If you are going to argue against carbsane's review, do it on the science else you are just doing what you accuse her of doing. Back up your comments with some evidence.
I would suggest that you check those reviews that come from verified purchasers. It is amazon policy that reviewers disclose if they have been given a free copy. Some of the reviewers appear to have ignored this. (a couple have corrected their error )

Are you saying all the other reviews should be rejected out of hand just because "some" may not be from verified purchasers?
There are at the latest count 88 reviews of which 84 are favourable.

http://www.amazon.com/Cholesterol-Clari ... ewpoints=1

 

[Rouge Diablo]

Allicin is released in garlic when it is chopped,chewed or crushed and then eaten raw.Allicin is destroyed when garlic is cooked for more than 5 minutes.I take my garlic finely chopped and in a berry smoothie.I've been doing this for about 12 months and my breakfast includes oats shreddies and 1 Weetabix.I can't handle the side effects of statins and by using the above method and a low fat diet my cholesterol level in August was 2.1.

 

[bohemian]

I'd strongly advise AGAINST taking statins. Firstly our bodies produce 85-90% of our cholesterol. Secondly, the idea that cholestorol is a cause of heart disease is fallacy. We need it to live and once you hit age 47 the higher the level of it you have the better you likelihood of enjoying a longer life. Thirdly, statins have been implicated in premature deaths of people via cardiovascular events and cancers, but it's a $US 29 Billion dollar a year industry that doesn't want to go away.

There is a documentary called 'Statin Nation', you should google it and watch it! Also, here is just one link to a true story about how someone was affected by taking statins: http://dietheartnews.com/2012/11/should ... tin-drugs/

 

[stuffedolive]

Just had my latest tests back.
So.... eating lots of saturated fat + garlic + benecol drink (and lowcarbing) seem to still be working

Total cholesterol down again to 4.7 , HDL 1.7, ratio 2.8, Triglycerides 0.5 - couldn't be happier.

I just wish I had done this before my year on statins (5yrs ago) from which I am still recovering :x

 

[douglas99]

Just had my latest tests back.
So.... eating lots of saturated fat + garlic + benecol drink (and lowcarbing) seem to still be working

Total cholesterol down again to 4.7 , HDL 1.7, ratio 2.8, Triglycerides 0.5 - couldn't be happier.

I just wish I had done this before my year on statins (5yrs ago) from which I am still recovering :x

Brilliant figures, I'm chasing the same.
What is your LDL?