))Denise(( said:
No, that's hardly any information. :lol: Can't wait for mine to start...fed up with it now, not having any more babies so it can just toodle off.....
Julia
Cinnamon and Bitter Melon for reducing fasting levels
- Thread starter xyzzy
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No, that's hardly any information. :lol: Can't wait for mine to start...fed up with it now, not having any more babies so it can just toodle off.....
Julia
SweetHeart said:
I've just ordered bitter melon capsules, and like you am done having babies a loooooooooooooong time ago, so am not too concerned. I wish my body realised I'm done having babies and would bring on the menopause
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So had my standard Saturday night Indian takeaway. Last time with 4 x Bitter Melon caps went from 4.9 to 6.1 after 2 hours. Tonight I ate my last 2 Bitter Melon caps so had to add 2 Banaba Caps instead and went from 4.8 to 6.1 so that's encouraging.
Found some Banaba Human research studies. Can't get to the actual studies without paying but can see the conclusions.
this one is more impressive
Don't worry that it says Glucosol or corosolic acid as that's the active ingredient in Banaba. If you read about corosolic acid you'll find its a thing that mimics the behaviour of insulin to some degree which is how it works in the body. Products that contain it are also sold as weight loss drugs. Be careful as there are several supplements that contain pure corosolic acid such as Glucofit but they are roughly a tenth of the power of plain Banaba leaf extract caps you can get off eBay.
The one I bought was Paradise Banaba Leaf and each cap ends up giving you a 3mg dose of corosolic acid from the 250mg of Banaba Leaf extract in each cap. So to get to the level of the first human study you would need to take around 3 caps a day and to get to the claimed 30% reduction in blood sugar levels of the second study you would have to take around 10 to 15!
You can buy standardised 1% strength Banaba powder by the kilo. PM me if you want to know where. So using that method and making your own caps then to give your self a 10mg dose you would need to consume 1000mg or 1 gram of the 1% Banaba powder which I would guess would work out a far more cost effective route.
Found some Banaba Human research studies. Can't get to the actual studies without paying but can see the conclusions.
this one is more impressive
Don't worry that it says Glucosol or corosolic acid as that's the active ingredient in Banaba. If you read about corosolic acid you'll find its a thing that mimics the behaviour of insulin to some degree which is how it works in the body. Products that contain it are also sold as weight loss drugs. Be careful as there are several supplements that contain pure corosolic acid such as Glucofit but they are roughly a tenth of the power of plain Banaba leaf extract caps you can get off eBay.
The one I bought was Paradise Banaba Leaf and each cap ends up giving you a 3mg dose of corosolic acid from the 250mg of Banaba Leaf extract in each cap. So to get to the level of the first human study you would need to take around 3 caps a day and to get to the claimed 30% reduction in blood sugar levels of the second study you would have to take around 10 to 15!
You can buy standardised 1% strength Banaba powder by the kilo. PM me if you want to know where. So using that method and making your own caps then to give your self a 10mg dose you would need to consume 1000mg or 1 gram of the 1% Banaba powder which I would guess would work out a far more cost effective route.
Xyzzy,
Are you going to take the BM in tandem with the Banaba when you get more BM? Please could you put some BGs on here that are purely from taking the Banaba?
Although I bought the Banaba for me, I will feed it to my guinea pig if it'll work nicely together with the BM. The BM alone gives him a really crampy tum.
Read some real horror stories about Statins yesterday. Got the heebeegeebees about them now......
Julia
Are you going to take the BM in tandem with the Banaba when you get more BM? Please could you put some BGs on here that are purely from taking the Banaba?
Although I bought the Banaba for me, I will feed it to my guinea pig if it'll work nicely together with the BM. The BM alone gives him a really crampy tum.
Read some real horror stories about Statins yesterday. Got the heebeegeebees about them now......
Julia
SweetHeart said:
So you should. Have the heebeegeebees. My previous GP was fanatical about Metformin & Statins and believed that every person in the UK should be taking these on a daily basis. I have never had high cholesterol and my levels have always been at the midpoint of the acceptable range. My fasting blood test readings surprised my GP (me being a 20-a-day man, leading a sedentary lifestyle and suffering with advanced NASH [cirrhosis]). They put me on a treadmill to check out my heart & BP, and apart from my being slightly out-of-breath (which could be explained by smoking and anisocytosis), but the GP insisted I should be on statins: I stopped seeing that GP soon after consulting medical personnel in the extended family and my two best friends:
Google & Wikipedia At one point even the BBC was waxing lyrical about statins -- makes you wonder if someone somewhere has a hidden agenda. When the dailies started reporting on the negative side of statins, Aunty soon changed her mind.
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SweetHeart said:
Yes no problem will be on pure Banaba now for a few days anyway. I am gradually going to up the dose and test as I go. There is little written about how much is needed. Based on those human studies have started today at 4 caps a day to get around 12mg of Glucosol. Will TRY and keep my carbs about the same and then see if my BG's change at all.
I also think that as it acts as an insulin substitute it may only be effective with main meals where you would normally need an insulin response but I'm hoping it will do a bit for background BG's as well.
Unlike BM writings on Banaba say it can hypo you in too large doses so I'm being a bit wary not to take too much.
Yes I have read similar things about statins particularly a Dutch study that linked it to short term memory loss. Also it may "leach" other vitamins and minerals as well as getting rid of the nasty bad Cholesterol.
As my heroes the Swedes also reckon high Cholesterol is bad and my Cholesterol was still quite high on my last test I'm sticking with the 40mg of Simvastatin for the moment and trying to counter any possible leaching by taking a broad spectrum multi vitamin and mineral tab each day (yes another pill in addition to the BM, Cinnamon, Banaba & Chromium & ...). The one I'm taking is just an age 50+ one that you can get from Tesco or Asda. I choose the 50+ one as its has the best Zinc content which is also supposed to be good for diabetics (read that on the main site somewhere).
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:lol:
daren't post the full list cos Sid and CatherineCherub would go mental, probably kill them both with heart failure :lol: :shh: :silent:
BUT
in my defence I nowadays never much see a BG reading above 5.7 and I'm eating well and feeling great!
daren't post the full list cos Sid and CatherineCherub would go mental, probably kill them both with heart failure :lol: :shh:
:silent: BUT
in my defence I nowadays never much see a BG reading above 5.7 and I'm eating well and feeling great!
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Found another one called Gymnema.
Looks again to be reasonably well tested but I'm not clear how it works. Seems to imply its active ingredient is chemically similar to glucose so the receptors in the gut that take up glocose take up the Gymnema and thus will maintain low BG's. A few suggest it may stimulate insulin production which is defo out for me as I want to maintain my knackered panc as best I can.
Anybody else come across or used this one?
Looks again to be reasonably well tested but I'm not clear how it works. Seems to imply its active ingredient is chemically similar to glucose so the receptors in the gut that take up glocose take up the Gymnema and thus will maintain low BG's. A few suggest it may stimulate insulin production which is defo out for me as I want to maintain my knackered panc as best I can.
Anybody else come across or used this one?
Today, I've taken the Banaba caps (2% corosolic acid) for the first time. They made me light headed, but this may have been because the only thing I had eaten prior was a pear. I think I took the capsule within twenty minutes of eating the pear and MH was worried because I was dizzy so he stuck me and did a BG test - 6.4...so not hypo. It did work on my carb cravings for quite a few hours after taking.
Just about to take my second cap of the day with dinner - we are somewhat late eating this evening, so I don't think I'll manage the three caps daily recommendation today.
Will let you know how I get on.....
Julia
Just about to take my second cap of the day with dinner - we are somewhat late eating this evening, so I don't think I'll manage the three caps daily recommendation today.
Will let you know how I get on.....
Julia
Decided to do a day of testing both before and after food to see if the cinnamon (1 - 2 grams McCormicks cinnamon sprinkled on my breakfast) and two 900mg Bitter Melon capsules were having an impact on my levels.
I know the cinnamon is having an impact on my fasting levels bringing them down into the 5's instead of the 6's they were before. I am on 40mg of Gilclazide (taken before breakfast) which I would like to give up.
Here are the results I got from my testing.
Fasting 8.45 am - 5.3
Breakfast an orange and a bowl of my cereal and milk - 50 grams carbs
11.15 am - 7.1
12.45 pm - 4.4
Lunch - Cheese salad and 125g blueberries - 20 grams carbs
3.20 pm - 4.3
5.00 pm - 4.6
Biscuit - gluten free cookie 15 grams of carbs
6.20 pm - 4.1
Dinner - Chicken and bacon melt and runner beans plus some dried fruit 20 grams of carbs
9.10 pm - 5.6
10.50 pm - 4.9
I can see from this that I probably need to do something about breakfast, but the rest of it looks pretty good. I haven't done any intensive testing like this recently, so don't have anything to compare it with.
I know the cinnamon is having an impact on my fasting levels bringing them down into the 5's instead of the 6's they were before. I am on 40mg of Gilclazide (taken before breakfast) which I would like to give up.
Here are the results I got from my testing.
Fasting 8.45 am - 5.3
Breakfast an orange and a bowl of my cereal and milk - 50 grams carbs
11.15 am - 7.1
12.45 pm - 4.4
Lunch - Cheese salad and 125g blueberries - 20 grams carbs
3.20 pm - 4.3
5.00 pm - 4.6
Biscuit - gluten free cookie 15 grams of carbs
6.20 pm - 4.1
Dinner - Chicken and bacon melt and runner beans plus some dried fruit 20 grams of carbs
9.10 pm - 5.6
10.50 pm - 4.9
I can see from this that I probably need to do something about breakfast, but the rest of it looks pretty good. I haven't done any intensive testing like this recently, so don't have anything to compare it with.
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oooh look at those lovely fours you get, wish I could do that, well done! If you continue getting those consistently you might get a sub 5 HbA1c which would really freak your doc out. :lol:
Banaba trial update. Swapped off the Bitter Melon onto the Banaba. Taking 4 caps in the morning and 4 at night so an equivelent dose of 24mg / day of corosolic acid.
My averages this week 5.0, 5.3 (included an Indian), 5.2 (included a high carb mothers day tea), 5.2, 5.4 (included that I forgot to take all my dinner time meds [Met,BM & BAN] until I did my two hour reading!), 5.2, 5.1. Max 2 hour readings were 6.1's for the Indian, the mothers day tea and on the night I forgot to take anything. On the night I forgot only had a 28g carb dinner and doubled what I would normally spike at.
So from this I'm concluding it behaves very similar to Bitter Melon. Not a lot off fasting levels but good spike control.
More BM has arrived so will be doing a combo from now on.
Still researching this new Gymnema stuff. From what I read its supposed to be the most powerful of all the "natural" ones. Will let you all know what I find.
Banaba trial update. Swapped off the Bitter Melon onto the Banaba. Taking 4 caps in the morning and 4 at night so an equivelent dose of 24mg / day of corosolic acid.
My averages this week 5.0, 5.3 (included an Indian), 5.2 (included a high carb mothers day tea), 5.2, 5.4 (included that I forgot to take all my dinner time meds [Met,BM & BAN] until I did my two hour reading!), 5.2, 5.1. Max 2 hour readings were 6.1's for the Indian, the mothers day tea and on the night I forgot to take anything. On the night I forgot only had a 28g carb dinner and doubled what I would normally spike at.
So from this I'm concluding it behaves very similar to Bitter Melon. Not a lot off fasting levels but good spike control.
More BM has arrived so will be doing a combo from now on.
Still researching this new Gymnema stuff. From what I read its supposed to be the most powerful of all the "natural" ones. Will let you all know what I find.
My doc already thinks I'm his best Type 2 patient .... A HbA1c in the 4's would be great, but think it would be best to give up the Gliclazide instead and maintain my HbA1c in the 5's. I am going to cut the Gliclazide down to 20mg a day before cutting it out completely.
The Banaba sounds interesting, but I'm going to continue with just the bitter melon as I have another two months of it left and I seem to be doing ok on it.
If I cut my breakfast carbs then I wouldn't get that mid morning spike. I don't seem to be spking the rest of the time.
The Banaba sounds interesting, but I'm going to continue with just the bitter melon as I have another two months of it left and I seem to be doing ok on it.
If I cut my breakfast carbs then I wouldn't get that mid morning spike. I don't seem to be spking the rest of the time.
E-mail this morning to say my BM has been dispatched, so should be joining you all in trying this, sometime next week.
My delivery has arrived so I'm going to start on the BM tomorrow (I have some Cinnamon too but want to compare the two).
My Gymnema has been dispatched too. I've also ordered something called Moringa which isn't targeted for diabetes, but sounds excellent for everything else multivit wise.
Julia
Julia
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The Gymnema sounds too good to be true from what I've been reading about. Excellent at blood glucose control, does weight loss and stops cravings for sugar. All well documented. Like BM is a prescribed treatment in the Philippines so Gymnema is in a number of other countries like Vietnam. The cost of Gymnema looks a lot cheaper than Banaba and again you can buy by the kilo if you want to roll your own caps.
On the blood glucose control aspects still have some nagging doubts. The research papers I've found say it works really well and is very powerful stuff for controlling blood glucose levels with between 10 and 60% level reductions seen dependent on the dose. It seems to work in three ways. It suppresses the livers glucose release like Metformin does which is fine by me, it blocks the glucose take up receptors in the gut which again is fine by me but it does stimulate insulin production which I don't particularly like. However it stimulates insulin production just by making the cells that produce insulin cell walls more permeable i.e. allows insulin to flow out of the better. Not clever enough to know if that means it actually ends up forcing the pancreas to work harder which is what I want to avoid. Still reading...
On the blood glucose control aspects still have some nagging doubts. The research papers I've found say it works really well and is very powerful stuff for controlling blood glucose levels with between 10 and 60% level reductions seen dependent on the dose. It seems to work in three ways. It suppresses the livers glucose release like Metformin does which is fine by me, it blocks the glucose take up receptors in the gut which again is fine by me but it does stimulate insulin production which I don't particularly like. However it stimulates insulin production just by making the cells that produce insulin cell walls more permeable i.e. allows insulin to flow out of the better. Not clever enough to know if that means it actually ends up forcing the pancreas to work harder which is what I want to avoid. Still reading...
I can ask #1 son to have a look at Gymnema - he's a Chemist and understands cell structure.
The gymnema is for me for the weight loss and crave controlling aspects.
Julia
The gymnema is for me for the weight loss and crave controlling aspects.
Julia
Grazer
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I'm genuinely fascinated by all this stuff: Gymnema, bitter melon, banaba......... my onoly concern is, if it works so well, why don't we hear more of it? I know drug companies have a vested interest not to talk of it, but I don't believe all doctors are corrupt; and what of the complimentary medicine people? Also, do we know if all this stuff can be mixed?
I'm waiting to let you lot find out what is best, then I'll try some! :clap:
I'm waiting to let you lot find out what is best, then I'll try some! :clap:
