Cinnamon and Bitter Melon for reducing fasting levels

[SweetHeart]

My own theory as to why cheap ayurvedic medicines aren't used is because, if they were prescribed by a physician without intensive research, it would lead to a whole spate of law suits against the prescribing medic. If intensive research were to be invested in, and carried out, these cheap alternatives would then become hugely expensive to cover research costs. That and, as Grazer said, the vested interests of pharmaceutical companies not to promote anything but their chemical products.

These alternatives are usually used in countries where medically trained doctors are more expensive than herbalists.

Julia

 

[xyzzy]

I'm genuinely fascinated by all this stuff: Gymnema, bitter melon, banaba......... my onoly concern is, if it works so well, why don't we hear more of it? I know drug companies have a vested interest not to talk of it, but I don't believe all doctors are corrupt; and what of the complimentary medicine people? Also, do we know if all this stuff can be mixed?
I'm waiting to let you lot find out what is best, then I'll try some! :clap:

Well I think some of it is a cultural thing. It would appear most of this stuff does get "prescribed" but not in Western countries. A lot of it is just used daily in India and South East Asia. There is even an Indian company who supply Bitter Melon caps that has obtained WHO accreditation for its product. If you go to its site there is a link that will d/l the WHO pdf.

I actually trust this stuff far more than most western created complimentary therapys which usually have no science to back them up or even science that proves they're rubbish like homoeopathy and all those ones that drivel on about "energy". What is undoubtedly missing on all these things is the depth of study that would normally be done by a Western pharma drug and maybe to an extent the quality of the research may in some cases not be perfect. So if you take something like Cinnamon you will find say 3 pretty reasonable western studies 2 of which say "yes it works" one of which says "no it doesn't". None say don't take it cos it poisonous. So to me that says "try it and see" what have you got to loose but a few quid. Again in the case of Cinnamon it looks like you have to take the right species for it to have an effect so maybe the research that said it didn't work used the wrong type etc.

I think you just have to try and build an evidence based approach and not ignore non western culture findings. I really don't know why Western phama's haven't investigated further but its probably that other substances are genuinely more powerful rather than any conspiracy theory stuff. In reality its all atoms and molecules so just because you are taking powdered leaves still means that its a specific chemical in those leaves that has the effect. So in Banaba's case it corosilic acid and in Gymnema case its gymnemic acid. Just like the active chemicals in Metformin or Glic or whatever they have an effect on the body because of specific molecules that are found in them.

 

[borofergie]

I'm genuinely fascinated by all this stuff: Gymnema, bitter melon, banaba......... my onoly concern is, if it works so well, why don't we hear more of it? I know drug companies have a vested interest not to talk of it, but I don't believe all doctors are corrupt; and what of the complimentary medicine people? Also, do we know if all this stuff can be mixed?
I'm waiting to let you lot find out what is best, then I'll try some! :clap:

Coincidently, I ran into this today, a very, very, clever graphical review of the efficacy of different supplements for treating certain medical conditions:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/p ... pplements/

Don't get two excited when you first look at it. You need to click on the "Diabetes" button to see which supplements are useful for diabetes (according to PubMed).

 

[Grazer]

Couldn't find a diabetes button......... Is there a button for stupid sheep?

 

[))Denise((]

There is a pop out menu on the right with a tick list.

 

[Grazer]

Not on my iphone :|

 

[xyzzy]

I'm genuinely fascinated by all this stuff: Gymnema, bitter melon, banaba......... my onoly concern is, if it works so well, why don't we hear more of it? I know drug companies have a vested interest not to talk of it, but I don't believe all doctors are corrupt; and what of the complimentary medicine people? Also, do we know if all this stuff can be mixed?
I'm waiting to let you lot find out what is best, then I'll try some! :clap:

Coincidently, I ran into this today, a very, very, clever graphical review of the efficacy of different supplements for treating certain medical conditions:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/p ... pplements/

Don't get two excited when you first look at it. You need to click on the "Diabetes" button to see which supplements are useful for diabetes (according to PubMed).

Interesting... however I think everyone who has tried Bitter melon on this thread and taken enough of it would dispute it has no effect. Especially if you read the Philippines research done over 10 years and published in 2007. I suspect the problem that many diabetics find is taking enough to get a reasonable effect as you really need to take over 2.5 grams or a teaspoon of the stuff and it tastes :sick:

The DOH cited a 10-year study that found out that the vegetable can effectively regulate blood sugar in the same way as a regular anti-diabetes drug.

Results of the study conducted by the Philippine Council for Health Research and Development (PCHRD) elevated the ampalaya from a mere nutritional supplement to a real medicine.

"We compared ampalaya leaves with an anti-diabetes drug, and we found out that ampalaya has the same effect on the patient. It means the action of ampalaya on blood sugar is equivalent to the action of the medicine," Dr. Cirilo Galindez, PITAHC director general, said.

The study revealed that a 100 milligram per kilo dose per day is comparable to 2.5 milligrams of the anti-diabetes drug Glibenclamide taken twice per day.

Similar results and studies from around the world can be tracked down for Cinnamon, Banaba & Gymnema. What's also interesting is the manufacturer of these "natural" leaf extracts whoever it finally is must do so on a pretty large commercial scale. So for example if you go to the site that will supply any of these extracts by the kilo (or tonne) then they have patently been mass produced in some semblance of laboratory conditions because they are sold at standardised strengths. So if you buy say Banaba extract its sold to deliver a standardise 1% corosilic acid dose.

 

[xyzzy]

Ha unbelievers!

Been busy today mending a fence and removing an old tree then walked the dogs. Saturday night is curry night, absolutely starving and just thought sod it. Ate a much larger curry takeaway than normal including half a thing of rice (normally have about a sixth). Took 1500mg of BM in Karela caps + 1000mg of Banada as caps + normal 1000mg of Metformin, no alchohol started out at 4.5, 2 hours 5.1. A result.

[next day edit]
Spoke to soon about the curry. At 4 hours was over 6, woke up over 6, spent the morning and early afternoon over 6 even though I'd walked miles. Skipped lunch and normal service has been resumed. Took a long while to purge that rice!

 

[Defren]

Interesting... however I think everyone who has tried Bitter melon on this thread and taken enough of it would dispute it has no effect. Especially if you read the Philippines research done over 10 years and published in 2007. I suspect the problem that many diabetics find is taking enough to get a reasonable effect as you really need to take over 2.5 grams or a teaspoon of the stuff and it tastes :sick:

Never a truer word spoken. I have it here in powder form, and that is exactly where it will stay until I get my little capsule maker and capsules. I have ordered it in capsule form and it should arrive early next week. I am really hoping it helps me, as it seems to have helped others.

 

[Defren]

My BM arrived today, each capsule is 900mg what do you recommend as a useful daily dose? The bottle says to take 2 daily, does that sound about right to those already taking them?

 

[xyzzy]

I was taking 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening so just under 4g / day. I would start at 2 and work up as you don't want to end up feeling unwell. As a rough guide take your weight in kilos divide by 10 and treat that as a maximum dose in grams. If you read the Wikipedia entry for BM it says to achieve the effects of such and such diabetic drug treat at 100mg / kilo of weight you are. So at just under 4 grams I was taking around half the 100mg / kilo amount which sounded safe to me but make your own judgement.

 

[Defren]

I was taking 2 in the morning and 2 in the evening so just under 4g / day. I would start at 2 and work up as you don't want to end up feeling unwell. As a rough guide take your weight in kilos divide by 10 and treat that as a maximum dose in grams. If you read the Wikipedia entry for BM it says to achieve the effects of such and such diabetic drug treat at 100mg / kilo of weight you are. So at just under 4 grams I was taking around half the 100mg / kilo amount which sounded safe to me but make your own judgement.

Thanks. I think you're absolutely right, take the recommended dose and work up. I shall do that and report back.

 

[xyzzy]

Right this weeks update.

Had a bit of a stressful early week when I discovered someone who should know better (not a DUK poster I must make very clear) had been slagging me off and calling my dog names elsewhere on the interweb thing. Averages ended up 5.1, 5.2, 5.4, 5.6, 5.6, 4.9, 4.9. So you can guess the days the stress was around! Anyway as you can see made a blindingly good recovery and the last couple of days have been real corkers, today may well turn out even better. Go me!

Averaged around 40g / day carbs this week.

Have been taking 500mg Met, 1750mg cinnamon, 1000mg BM and 500mg of Banaba in the mornings then 1000mg Met, 1500mg BM and 1000mg Banaba with dinner.

The Banaba is about to run out so it will be back to plain BM for a while next week. I find both work but the Banaba is more expensive so I doubt I'll order more. Decided I will give the Gymnema a try instead so will order some and let you know how I get on. The wife is very interested in taking it for its supposed dieting benefits.

 

[SweetHeart]

On my bottle, it says the Gymnema caps need to be taken before meals, so I have just taken my very first one prior to my supper. Will let you know how the dieting aspects of it go.

I have been taking the banaba, which does help with sugar cravings, and my Ketostix are nicely rosy so I am burning body fat on my low carb diet. I just haven't lost any weight yet. Most disappointing.

Julia

 

[Defren]

My first report back. The capsules are easy to take and caused no gastric problems at all. Do they work? I have to say yes at this point. I have not had a reading above 6.5 since I started them, but I am not going any lower than I was before. For me, they seem to stop spikes, but don't bring BG readings down. I will up my amount from 2x 900mg to 3x 900mg as from Monday, and see what happens. So far so good, but not quite what I had hoped for. (I want miracles :lol: )

 

[xyzzy]

Yes the only one that seems to have touched my fasting levels was the cinnamon by around 0.5 I would guess, both the BM & the Banaba work as excellent spike control but do very little on background. Keeping BG's stable is no bad thing if you read the research. You should see more benefit as you up your calories a bit Defren.

In the last 3 days something really weird is going on as I'm eating identically to what I have been it the previous few weeks but my BG's have got a LOT better very quickly. For instance today my max reading has been 5.0 which is when I woke up. Not complaining though! Most likely its a drop in insulin resistance as I lost weight this week.

 

[Defren]

Yes the only one that seems to have touched my fasting levels was the cinnamon by around 0.5 I would guess, both the BM & the Banaba work as excellent spike control but do very little on background. Keeping BG's stable is no bad thing if you read the research. You should see more benefit as you up your calories a bit Defren.

In the last 3 days something really weird is going on as I'm eating identically to what I have been it the previous few weeks but my BG's have got a LOT better very quickly. For instance today my max reading has been 5.0 which is when I woke up. Not complaining though! Most likely its a drop in insulin resistance as I lost weight this week.

I am very open to trying any supplements that forum members feel are a benefit to them. As we are all so very different, then I suppose it stands to reason, we will have different results with different things.

In the last 3 days something really weird is going on as I'm eating identically to what I have been it the previous few weeks but my BG's have got a LOT better very quickly. For instance today my max reading has been 5.0 which is when I woke up. Not complaining though! Most likely its a drop in insulin resistance as I lost weight this week.

Perhaps this is a result of the cinnamon, or the BM? I think if the old bank account allows try anything that you feel could offer you some benefit, use it for a few months, if nothing try something else. I suspect we will all eventually find something that works for out metabolism. It's like carbs, some of us do well on ULC or LC while others do well with slightly higher amounts. Trial and error and using out meter. Well done on the BG readings, weird or not something is working and that is what we are all striving for. I hope you keep getting better and better readings, I'm sure you will, you are determined enough to find what is the right path for you, and your experiences then help the rest of us find ours.

 

[xyzzy]

Thanks for the kind words Defren they mean a lot.

Have just ordered a pot of Gymnema caps off eBay should arrive late next week.

Julia don't despair about the lack of weight loss. It took me a while on LC/ULC to start to lose weight. Another of the strange effects as I find you hit quite long plateaus of nothing then lose a load very quickly so keep at it.

 

[SweetHeart]

I'm not giving up, even though I've felt like it. MH & I (ooh, sounding like her Maj now) both seemed to have hit something; he's lost over a stone and is stuck at 18st and I keep being +/- 1 or 2lbs from 11st. I know your daily weight can fluctuate by a pound or two daily.

It's been very hard today. We had a day trip to a Uni that #2 son is considering (awful place, hope he decides against it) and, despite saying one of us was diabetic, the buffet they put on was completely unsuitable. Thankfully, we took a cold box and packed cheeses, cold meats etc etc or we'd have gone hungry.

Julia

 

[Defren]

Thanks for the kind words Defren they mean a lot.

Have just ordered a pot of Gymnema caps off eBay should arrive late next week.

Julia don't despair about the lack of weight loss. It took me a while on LC/ULC to start to lose weight. Another of the strange effects as I find you hit quite long plateaus of nothing then lose a load very quickly so keep at it.

You're very welcome. I have ordered Gymnema capsules and am waiting for them to be delivered. I am just hoping these and BM will work for me. I'm up for trying anything that will help. If I can stick to a sensible low carb diet, take which ever supplement suits me and it keeps my BG low and relatively stable, then I will be happy.