Coming off medication, can it be done?

I was prescribed Metformin and statins in November. Quite soon after I found I was unable to learn a new song for the Christmas folk club, and was becoming more and more forgetful and unable to cope with normal housework. Just before Christmas I went to the supermarket and when I came out I could not remember where I left the car. After walking up and down for a while I found it - then I opened up the back and found I had already done the shopping, but forgotten about it. Most of it was still OK, but not the frozen things.
When I checked I had forgotten to take my tablets for a couple of days anyway - so I just stopped.
I checked my blood glucose levels with the meter I had, and bought another one when the strips ran out, and by sticking to low carb my levels are pretty much normal, so I am not going to take any more of those tablets. If it shortens my life I am at least going to be in my right mind - though my memory is still bad a month later.

Resurgam said:

I was prescribed Metformin and statins in November. Quite seen I found I was unable to learn a new song for the Christmas folk club, and was becoming more and more forgetful and unable to cope with normal housework. Just before Christmas I went to the supermarket and when I came out I could not remember where I left the car. After walking up and down for a while I found it - then I opened up the back and found I had already done the shopping, but forgotten about it. Most of it was still OK, but not the frozen things.
When I checked I had forgotten to take my tablets for a couple of days anyway - so I just stopped.
I checked my blood glucose levels with the meter I had, and bought another one when the strips ran out, and by sticking to low carb my levels are pretty much normal, so I am not going to take any more of those tablets. If it shortens my life I am at least going to be in my right mind - though my memory is still bad a month later.

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Memory issues seem to be a side effect of statins, according to the NHS website.

Good morning @Resurgam I was diagnosed type 2 in october of 2016 with the aim of coming off of my 2 x 500g a day metformin,I saw the doctor in January 3 weeks ago and my HbA1c had come down from 114 =12.6% to 50=6.7% in 3 months,but doctor said that if I did my BG would go back to where I started,so I have decided to wait another 3 months and then make my own decision to stop them and just contiue with my diet and exercise

carina62, that's an interesting question.

My personal experience has been that reducing insulin and glucose levels is more related to eating healthier foods and engaging regularly in walking or other physical movement.

What helped me the most was...

- buying the cheapest test strips I could find and the glucose meter to go with them. Nothing works better for me in getting and keeping glucose levels down than testing throughout the day. Without that regular feedback of how I'm doing, my glucose levels start creeping back up.

- walking a mile within an hour and a half after eating to get a high glucose down.

- if I wake up with a high glucose reading, I might delay eating 2 hours by reading in bed or getting up and having my first cup of tea.

- not eating 12 to 14 hours between dinner and breakfast, referred to as intermittent fasting. If I needed to eat something within 3 hours before bed, it would be three green olives, and ounce of raw nuts, or half an avocado, but most nights that's not necessary.

- making sure I'm eating enough healthy fats with each meal so I don't get hungry between meals.

- re-establishing walking a minimum of 3 to 4 times a week. It was hard. At first walking even a mile on flat ground was difficult and I had a hard time walking straight, but I stuck with it. I still remember the first time I walked 3 miles. I couldn't believe I did it. I was both exhausted and so happy. Interestingly, walking that distance is easy now (so long as I'm wearing walking shoes). Wasn't at all then. Some people start with walking only a block then back. Perhaps you're already walking everyday, or perhaps you're not at all. The goal is to maintain what you're doing or get started.

In the beginning, I could knock my glucose level down by 30 - 40 mg/dl with a walk an hour and a half after eating. Today I can knock a high glucose level down by up to 80 mg/dl. Large muscles do a great job of taking up excess glucose.

When I decided two years ago to restore my health and to do it without medication, I was a real mess. It took a good two weeks to get glucose levels down initially; another two weeks for them to stabilize. According to my records, glucose levels continued to improve a little bit at a time over the first year, so patience and perseverance helps.

Most type 2 diabetics do best on LCKD. Those who don't might do better on a whole foods, plant based diet. Regardless of the diet you choose, you will find support here. Both diets have a learning curve and the ongoing support is important. Also keep in mind that having a high BMI doesn't equal eating poorly or being physically unfit. You can have a high BMI, eat a healthy diet, and be physically fit, that is if you aren't already.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish for you improved health!

[Edit: I don't know you, but I hope you know by now that weight gain follows insulin resistance, not the other way around. My highest weight was 95 pounds when I graduated from high school. The hypoglycemia started in my early 20's. Over the next three and a half decades my weight increased to 180 pounds, despite eating normally. Worsening insulin resistance caused the weight gain over time, not over eating.]

Here's my history...

I crossed over to type 2 diabetes in 2005, have severe insulin resistance, and have chosen to not take medication. A1c was 9.9% two years ago. Was able to drop A1c down to 5.6% in a short period of time, then down to 5.4% last time I checked.

I actually got my glucose levels down by eating a low carbohydrate ketogenic diet (LCKD) that included animal protein, a mix of animal and plant based, healthy fats, and vegetables or leafy greens with every meal. I eliminated sugar, grains, and legumes from my diet, and greatly reduced fruit. I also eliminated all the industrial seed oils - (corn, soybean, saffola, canola, sunflower, cottonseed, and peanut). Today, I use healthier oils: extra virgin olive oil (for salads), butter, ghee, coconut oil, and for occasional higher heat cooking, avocado oil. I also walked up to 3 miles every other day.

Weight loss has been up and down for last two years...lost 26 pounds then gained 8 pounds back over the winter months...lost 6 of that 8 pounds over the summer....gained it back over the winter months again... Blood glucose hasn't changed much since despite the weight losses and gains.

carina62 said:

Has anyone managed to come off their medication through losing weight? I would love to come off my BP tablet, metformin, statins but wonder if it's just a vicious circle.

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There are quite a number of people who have managed to come off their medication. If my memory serves me well, most have lost weight, which is likely to be a result of them eating a more personally suitable diet for their body, with or without upping their physical activity levels. So, I think what I am saying is most of these successes are probably due to a combination of factors, but trimming up being the most outwardly visible one.

In his work for the Newcastle study, Professor Taylor cites a reduction in visceral fat as being key to more efficient glucose control. To achieve that some people have to lose a significant amount of weight and for others it's much, much less.

Like so many things diabetes related, it is all so very personal to ourselves and how much more efficiently our bodies can work to utilise the changes we make in our way of living, without the support of medication.

I couldn't begin to suggest any percentage of those capable of achieving it, but unless you give it a go, you'll never know, and trimming up a bit, where needed, undoubted helps with overall health too.

Good luck with it all.

For anyone wanting to learn how [sugar, refined foods, and hydrogenated, industrial seed oils lead to] insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, ["fatty liver" and, for many of us] weight gain, Robert Lustig, M.D.'s explanation is the best, and it's all based on solid science...

carina62 said:

Has anyone managed to come off their medication through losing weight? I would love to come off my BP tablet, metformin, statins but wonder if it's just a vicious circle.

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I was diagnosed with type 2 in August 2013. I was put on 1000mg Metformin and I was already on 40mg Atorvastatin (15 years). I lost weight steadily, but began the LCHF diet in July 2016. In January 2017, following a HbA1c result of 31, I was taken off both Metformin and statins and continue to control diabetes on diet alone. I have lost 15kg as well.

Was diagnosed on Sep 2015 with HbA1c of 11%. Started on Trajenta Duo x2 a day. I only took 2 tabs, ie 1 day worth before deciding on a carbs lite fats friendly diet. Have been medication free since. HbA1c at 5.5% throughout the past year.

No exercise, no weightloss.

It's working for me
I don't seem to tolerate statins or metformin and manage to control my BG on LCHF diet and exercise.
HbA1c down to 48 and 2 stones lost. Fatty liver totally back to normal.
Still a work in progress as I'd like to lose 2 more stones.

Many of us have managed on diet alone right from diagnosis. I'm one of them. I lost all my excess weight well within the first year and have maintained it ever since. (diagnosed 3 years ago). My BP and cholesterol were never high, but even so they improved fairly rapidly and are still steady. My BS levels are normal, both pre and post meal. I have no idea if this was due to weight loss. I believe it was more to do with low carbing and that the weight loss was a welcome bonus.

Yes I did.. three weeks of metforin then stopped it as was playing havoc with my guts. No meds since then(Nov 2015) . Have lost nearly 7 stone since then and now diet controlled..getting most recent HbA1c result when I get back home tomorrow.

I lost a lot of weight on a calorie controlled diet, then the newcastle diet, and a lot of exercise.
I reversed the diabetes, I eat normally now, but I refused to come off the minimum dose of Metformin even when my HCP suggested it.
It seems to have other benefits that make if worthwhile.

Bluetit1802 said:

Many of us have managed on diet alone right from diagnosis. I'm one of them. I lost all my excess weight well within the first year and have maintained it ever since. (diagnosed 3 years ago). My BP and cholesterol were never high, but even so they improved fairly rapidly and are still steady. My BS levels are normal, both pre and post meal. I have no idea if this was due to weight loss. I believe it was more to do with low carbing and that the weight loss was a welcome bonus.

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I agree, I refused the medications, and my blood sugar levels have improved immeasurably and still have another 50lbs to lose ( 100 in total) so whilst the weight loss obviously helps a lot, the low carb has to be the most significant part because I am still obese (BMI 33)

since stopping taking the new pills just before Christmas I have been checking my blood glucose levels regularly. I have never seen anything like the levels at which I was diagnosed, and every week my averages and lowest reading have gone down, and now they are normal, so for me at least, there is no adverse reaction to stopping statins and Metformin. My last weeks average is well under 8 mmol/l, which includes both before and after meals.
Two months low carbing has stirred up my metabolism - I am walking more and losing weight easily, and I feel great.

Bluetit1802 said:

Many of us have managed on diet alone right from diagnosis. I'm one of them. I lost all my excess weight well within the first year and have maintained it ever since. (diagnosed 3 years ago). My BP and cholesterol were never high, but even so they improved fairly rapidly and are still steady. My BS levels are normal, both pre and post meal. I have no idea if this was due to weight loss. I believe it was more to do with low carbing and that the weight loss was a welcome bonus.

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You have done so well!!

In Lustig's eloquent discussion - (see above video) - of how sugar, refined foods, and hydrogenated fats (also known as transfats) lead to insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetes, type 2 diabetes, and, for many of us, weight gain, at minute 44:15 he begins talking about sugar's role - (table sugar is half glucose half fructose) - in developing Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD) and it's relationship to the above listed conditions...

Here's a one-page overview of the 2015 study... https://www.endocrine.org/news-room...ose-in-obese-latino-african-american-children

I have a 2016 presentation by Lustig discussing the results of this 2015 study, but unfortunately, it was part of a health summit that I watched and purchased, so it's not available on the internet (but I can share the transcript via email).

This study demonstrates that fatty liver drives insulin resistance (and, again, for some of us, weight gain): "After 10 days of fructose restriction, the children’s conversion of sugar to fat declined by more than 40 percent and their liver fat decreased by more than 20 percent.

My 85 pound weight gain over three decades was not due to overeating, it was due to including sugar, refined foods, and hydrogenated fats in my diet. Eliminating those foods from my diet beginning in February 2015, was the game changer, not the weight loss (though that was a welcomed side benefit. )

Again, results described in this study occurred in 10 days, which supports my believe that it's fat loss from the liver, not the body, that improves insulin sensitivity - (type 2 diabetes is the result of insulin resistance). That's why people who eliminate sugar, processed foods, industrial seed oils - (corn, soybean, saffola, canola, sunflower, cottonseed, and peanut) - and hydrogenated oils (trans fats) by eating a low carbohydrate high (healthy) fat diet OR a whole foods, plant based diet are able to reduce insulin and glucose levels dramatically within weeks of starting the diet as demonstrated by the many testimonials offered here in response to the poster's question.

Here's where you can learn how the low carbohydrate ketogenic diet leads to improved health and weight loss... https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-to-lose-weight

Here's where you can learn how a whole foods, plant based diet leads to improved health and weight loss... http://www.pcrm.org/media/experts/neal-barnard-diabetes-book and http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/kickstart/kickstart-programs

Quotable from Robert Lustig, M.D., pediatric endocrinologist, author, and researcher, during the Q&A session in the above posted video (which no one appears to have watched ), minute 1:04:29 - 1:05:43...

"The question is, 'Well, could you just substitute glucose for fructose?' Well that's what we did in that study I showed you, the abstract, for.

Basically, glucose raises insulin and insulin drives energy into fat, so it definitely increases your subcutaneous fat. And that's one of the reasons we've gotten fatter, but what I hope we've shown you is metabolic disease is not obesity. They are two different things.

China's not fat. India's not fat. But they have chronic metabolic disease now for the same reason we have chronic metabolic disease.

In addition, we have fat, healthly people. They're called Metabolically Healthy Obese (MHO). So being fat and being sick are not the same thing.

Glucose definitely causes insulin release which definitely drives energy into fat. I don't argue that. We definitely need to reduce our refined carbohydrate consumption also, but that's what processed food is too.

Processed food is fiberless food. When we take the fiber out, we get refined carbohydrates.

So let's eat real food and we don't have to worry about the carbohydrate."

Ah, mine really was simply due to overeating.
I was a 'fat unhealthy people'

I probably eat about half as much as I used to.
Thin healthy people!