CONFUSED: No BG drop after 48 hour fast

[ObviousAdvice]

Confused: 48 hours ago my sugars were 146. After fasting (water only) my sugars are now: 141 - - Ur thoughts are welcome

For background, I had been in deep denial for nearly 20 years (w/daily BG spikes of 180-240 common) AMAZINGLY no real health damage apparent. I am 74, but most think I look and engage in activities closer to a 50 year old - am quite active.
About 90 days ago I got scared of an A1C of 10.2... and decided to do something about it.

Started testing (up to 7 time/day), especially pre eating, then about 90 minutes later (What an eye opener)..
Dumped 99.4% of all factory added sugars; Quit (cold-turkey) 99% of all breads, grains, rice, even beans)..
Quit 85% nearly all fruits... -

Use LANTUS - was up to 100 units/day, now down to 20 units/day (and hopeful of further reductions). I take One/500Metformin in AM and other in late afternoon.
Highest spike in past 90 days was BG of 209... Average about 159... and trending down.
Lost weight too (though this was NOT my goal) of 49 lbs... Was 280... Lifestyle is quite active. Much trail walking. and help out on many outdoor tasks requiring muscle. (mow with push mower, instead of rider, etc.)

 

[catinahat]

Welcome to the forum @ObviousAdvice
Looks like you are using up some of your stored glucose.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-dawn-phenomenon this link should be helpful

 

[EllieM]

Welcome to the forums.

Confused: 48 hours ago my sugars were 146. After fasting (water only) my sugars are now: 141 - - Ur thoughts are welcome

Hmm, for the benefit of others, that converts to 8.1 going down to 7.8 in mmol/L units. (It would help if you listed your diabetic type and country in your profile, because that does make a difference to advice given. eg No point telling you to ring 111 for advice when you're not in the UK, and different diabetic types have different mechanisms )

I'm assuming you're T2, as a T1 would be taking short acting insulin as well, so you're probably still producing your own insulin, just not enough to cover your needs given your insulin resistance.

When you fast (or sleep) your liver pumps out sugar to keep your brain and body active, which is why T1s still need background insulin when they fast. There's also a thing called the dawn phenomena, where your liver pumps out extra sugar when you wake. My guess is that you may need a little more lantus to cope with your background needs, though if you're still trending lower it may just be a matter of time before your levels reduce some more. I certainly wouldn't advise increasing the lantus without talking to a medical professional.

 

[millenium]

It may take a while like a few days to come down to more normal level. When my dad was discharged after a week in a hospital that administered high carb diet for him, it took him around five days on a 30-40g carb a day diet to control his blood glucose level to around normal.

 

[ObviousAdvice]

Thanks for the responses. I am grateful to hear from all.
Yes, of course, I am a type-II (I seriously doubt a Type-1, could be in denial for 20 years). Type Ones, die in months, Type-twos die in years... (Probably why so many T-2 are undiagnosed. (T-1 get diagnosed early, or they die. (My daughter is a T-1), a tremendous battle.

Regardless: My morning wake-up sugars have been ranging 90 to 110.... That is why, when this 48 fasting refused to drop more than 4 points is such a puzzle.
Wheat we call, the "Dawn Phenomena" is an interesting puzzle, we diabetics have to contend with - though I have never hear of it lasting 48 hours. Normally (most the literature says), it goes away after one has been active a bit....

 

[MeiChanski]

Thanks for the responses. I am grateful to hear from all.
Yes, of course, I am a type-II (I seriously doubt a Type-1, could be in denial for 20 years). Type Ones, die in years, Type-twos die in hours.
Regardless: My morning wake-up sugars have been ranging 90 to 110.... That is why, when this 48 fasting refused to drop more than 4 points is such a puzzle.
Wheat we call, the "Dawn Phenomena" is an interesting puzzle, we diabetics have to contend with - though I have never hear of it lasting 48 hours. Normally (most the literature says), it goes away after one has been active a bit....

Hello, I don’t know where you got your information from but type 1s do die very quickly due to the lack of insulin and dangerous ketone levels. Type 2s do have some leeway with diet and medications to help them with blood glucose control. Obviously not well managed for both do end up with complications.
I think you’ll have to look into dawn phenomenon, avoiding carbs for dinner, light walks after dinner etc could help lighten the dawn effect. But I also know eating something like peanut butter in the morning can halt it to stop it going up. I know our livers store glucose when eating carbs, so it’s dumping some to help you get started for the day. Unfortunately lantus doesn’t last the full 24 hours, you could consider another basal insulin to help counter dawn effect. Or your body is still adjusting to your new way of eating. You can keep a food diary and a record of pre and post blood sugars to see where needs more adjusting.

 

[ObviousAdvice]

PS: PRIOR to starting to restrict my carbs (Still consuming about 2200 calories - mostly meats, leafy green veggies, lots of water) - the last 10 years, my HA1C hss averaged 9.5.... My score (from last week): 5.8 - My physician was quite pleased. The dietician they sent me to, said the program (while unconventional) was fine (I take special care to keep my Electrolyte levels up, and the micro-nutrients. --- So far, so good (disclaimer, I am quite ne to trying to control my diabetes, an only taking baby steps... I do recommend you consult a qualified professional before changing from a CARB-Energy based diet, to a FAT-energy based diet.... )
Since my sugars seemed to drop during the course of a 24 hour period (at least for me).... And as I test about 6 or 7 times a day.... The PUZZLE, for me was: WHY NOT THIS TIME..???... - Again, thank you all for your contributions...

Hello, I don’t know where you got your information from but type 1s do die very quickly due to the lack of insulin and dangerous ketone levels. Type 2s do have some leeway with diet and medications to help them with blood glucose control. Obviously not well managed for both do end up with complications.
I think you’ll have to look into dawn phenomenon, avoiding carbs for dinner, light walks after dinner etc could help lighten the dawn effect. But I also know eating something like peanut butter in the morning can halt it to stop it going up. I know our livers store glucose when eating carbs, so it’s dumping some to help you get started for the day. Unfortunately lantus doesn’t last the full 24 hours, you could consider another basal insulin to help counter dawn effect. Or your body is still adjusting to your new way of eating. You can keep a food diary and a record of pre and post blood sugars to see where needs more adjusting.

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Thanks for you post. I corrected my post (of course T-1 folks) face consequences quickly. Almost impossible for them not to knwo...
My only puzzle about DAWN PHOENMA is: I question how it would apply to a 48 hour fast...
Bottom line - just would like to know why only a 4 point drop (BG) in 48 hours.... (again, I do thank you for your response)///
My intent is not to preach or teach - but only to learn.

 

[ObviousAdvice]

THE ANSWER: Thanks to posters on another venue - it appears that the rise in BG came from my own liver. Fasting triggered release of several responses from my own body (like noradrenaline) - which caused my sugars to rise...
The answer:
Need to continue my habit of LCHF (Low-Carb, high fat) eating... and intermittent fasting... Over time, I will not have such a reserve of sugars, and s;iking (this much) after long fasting will probably not occur.
Knowledge is our friend..