@David_Jackson I forgot to say that I also wonder if the hunger is also being triggered by your body calling out for extra nourishment due to the CFS. So tweaks to your diet and/or checks on iron, protein, vitamin levels might be sensible, if you haven't already explored that, of course.
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David_Jackson
Guest
@azure, you said: "Hunger is caused by hormones like leptin and ghrelin."
I haven't heard this stuff before, could you expand on that?
As for the messed up sleep causing the desperate levels of hunger, well, I have to admit that it is possible, but three hours after every single meal? To me it seems like the explanation involves hormones that have gone awack, what with the CFS and all. Thus you have my interest when you mention leptin and ghrelin...
I haven't heard this stuff before, could you expand on that?
As for the messed up sleep causing the desperate levels of hunger, well, I have to admit that it is possible, but three hours after every single meal? To me it seems like the explanation involves hormones that have gone awack, what with the CFS and all. Thus you have my interest when you mention leptin and ghrelin...
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David_Jackson
Guest
A possibility, though would it result in very intense hypoglycemic symptoms... well, it might, I'm not an expert. At the moment, I favor the hormone theories...
But, yes, when you are sick you can really burn through nutrients; and I do feel a bit better now that I am taking certain ones.
I'm not a scientist so I can't give you a detailed explanation sadly, but judicious use of Google should provide you with information about the mechanism of hunger 
Yes, illness causes increased demands on the body, and long term illness even more so. Protein, iron, B vits, Vit D, zinc - all things to look at amongst others.
Yes, illness causes increased demands on the body, and long term illness even more so. Protein, iron, B vits, Vit D, zinc - all things to look at amongst others.
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Avocado Sevenfold
Guest
Hi @David_Jackson Being a low carb vegan, you may not be able to go extremely low carb, but it is still doable as a tasty and nutritious way of eating for good levels. Check out this good news thread from another vegan forum member called @Welshman1952 http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/yippeee.108751/#post-1262891
If you would like to join us on the vegetarian sub-forum, you would be most welcome (veggies and vegans share a sub-forum). Good luck getting your current symptoms sorted.
Edited to add: I see you already have a low hba1c, but will add that low cab vegan, in my experience, is good for keeping numbers low and unspikey. There are many options for snacks and meals which shouldn't trouble a person's bg levels if they have regular insulin resistance.
If you would like to join us on the vegetarian sub-forum, you would be most welcome (veggies and vegans share a sub-forum). Good luck getting your current symptoms sorted.
Edited to add: I see you already have a low hba1c, but will add that low cab vegan, in my experience, is good for keeping numbers low and unspikey. There are many options for snacks and meals which shouldn't trouble a person's bg levels if they have regular insulin resistance.
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@Avocado Sevenfold The OP has normal blood sugar levels with no spikes, and a normal HbA1C, so more than likely may not need to lower his carbs at all. He doesn't have diabetes, and the BS numbers he's reported here are beautifully normal.
As he has another health condition, then I think he's best served by speaking to a doctor or dietician if he feels he could improve his diet. Or indeed, a CFS forum may be able to offer dietary advice that has helped other people in the same situation.
As he has another health condition, then I think he's best served by speaking to a doctor or dietician if he feels he could improve his diet. Or indeed, a CFS forum may be able to offer dietary advice that has helped other people in the same situation.
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Avocado Sevenfold
Guest
The CFS forum members may very well be able to help the OP with his diet. As a DCUK forum member however, I was tagged into this thread and was trying to be welcoming. We have low and high carb posters on the veggie sub forum, it is a broad church. All welcome.
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David_Jackson
Guest
Thanks for the invite @Avocado Sevenfold; yes, I do have some more tests to run before we can say for sure what is going on, but I don't think there is too much harm to be caused by trying a different style of eating and seeing if it helps with the symptoms. And I'd be interested to see how the vegans manage to go low carb, as I was under the impression it was very hard to do as a vegan.
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Avocado Sevenfold
Guest
I don't know much about CFS, but know that a bit of fat in your diet can help with curbing hunger pangs. Perhaps you might consider fatty snacks to keep you going until you have your tests done. Nuts, nut butters, avocados, olives, oils for vinaigrettes and plant mayos come to mind.
slip
Well-Known Member
As far as we know david_Jackson doesn't get high BS levels after eating, or rapid on-set lows following, his BS levels are as already mentioned 'beautifully' normal - personally I think we can discount false hypos as well as actual real hypos. But a series of home blood tests would answer that - sorry your fingers will take a beating!
A question to the floor:
What could cause severe hunger pangs typically after 3hrs post prandial? Obviously an empty stomach for one. Other possibilities we've touched on are lack of nutrients and the body crying out for more, unfulfilling diet, sleep deprivation, long term illness. Anything else?
What causes the hypo like symptoms? We seem to agree - hormones. Of the above which is more likely to cause the hormones to kick in? But are there any other bodily mechanism that produces those symptoms?
And David, Can I ask another question, what is your height and weight?
A question to the floor:
What could cause severe hunger pangs typically after 3hrs post prandial? Obviously an empty stomach for one. Other possibilities we've touched on are lack of nutrients and the body crying out for more, unfulfilling diet, sleep deprivation, long term illness. Anything else?
What causes the hypo like symptoms? We seem to agree - hormones. Of the above which is more likely to cause the hormones to kick in? But are there any other bodily mechanism that produces those symptoms?
And David, Can I ask another question, what is your height and weight?
Lamont D
Oracle
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- Type of diabetes
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Hi, @slip,
Carbs are the cause of most of the body wanting more carbs or the brain telling you too eat more. It is a viscous circle, more wants more especially when denied.
It's very similar to going cold turkey for addicts. The craving is telling you, that your brain needs to be stimulated by more of what you are craving for.
Once you have gotten over doing without carbs, the body adjusts and the cravings go away. The time period is irrelevant.
The actual science is quite complicated and the number of hormones that trigger the feeling of craving, from the gut/brain stimulus, the gut bacteria, the insulin, glucose, the triggers for more insulin, the thyroid effect, the glucose demand, vitamin deficiency, cortisol, and more than you realise.
The imbalance in any of the hormones or lack of production of certain hormones gives the wide umbrella of types that is endocrinology.
Well you say you are vegan you do take B12 vitamins then cause anemia of them can cause extreme fatique and also vegans in general seems to get too little of the EPA and DHA that makes cells works the best
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David_Jackson
Guest
Thanks for that @Freema.
Naturally, B12 was the first thing we checked when I lost my energy. It was fine. And, yes, I do supplement it, and I have heaps in the body.
Yes, I have heard the benefits of EPA and DHA. I have tried supplementing with algae oil for a source of these, but saw no change, so have to assume that my fatigue has other causes.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Naturally, B12 was the first thing we checked when I lost my energy. It was fine. And, yes, I do supplement it, and I have heaps in the body.
Yes, I have heard the benefits of EPA and DHA. I have tried supplementing with algae oil for a source of these, but saw no change, so have to assume that my fatigue has other causes.
Thanks for your suggestions.
is there EPA and DHA in algea oil....?
they are not only beneficial but considered essential for the human health and especially the brains health, so it is something to take like forever.... if one wants to live long and feel good..
Well I see algae oil is seen to be even safer for pregnant women than fish oil ...
https://draxe.com/algal-oil/
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David_Jackson
Guest
Well, there was in the one that I was taking:
http://www.iherb.com/Nordic-Naturals-Algae-Omega-625-mg-60-Soft-Gels/42486
Yeah, I'm considering getting back into it.
I think some fish oils get mercury contamination, among other things, what with how polluted some oceans are now. I think that is why algae oil is considered safer... after all, the fish get their Omega 3's from algae, so why not bypass the middleman (middlefish?), and go straight to the algae?
thank you i´ll get those when my fish-oil have been eaten... my daughter is lacto-vegetarian so then we could share...
this link I put in here is to an expert in nutrition who himself is a vegetarian and who tells the reasons for taking what suplements and why they are essential and why especially for vegans... he has a very special voice I think, but is really interesting in his knowledge
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/should-vegans-take-dha-to-preserve-brain-function/
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David_Jackson
Guest
Yes, I've listened to a lot of Dr. Greger's videos. He's excellent, isn't he?
I've just been reading his latest book, actually. It's really good too.
I've just been reading his latest book, actually. It's really good too.
